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Thread: Racor Filter Any Trouble?

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    Member SusitnaAk's Avatar
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    Default Racor Filter Any Trouble?

    Getting that time of yr. Put my boat away last fall with a problem, with a fuel issue. Carbed 350 votec motor river boat.Engine start run fine until start put on step than would lose power sometimes just die out, Once it would catch run all the way upstearm no problem ,after going though everything filters, pulled tank,new lines, carb, vent,pickup tube, ect.... i mean just everything from front to back. I by chance had cheap napa inline fiter i carry in the box, put it on, by passed the racor and Bingo, no more problems, Thats where we are at today,Also ordered new fuel pump, First outting i will pressure Ck the one that is on it.This has been nagging me all winter! This set up only has about 56hr,s on it No issue at all the first yr? If were to blow in the napa filter like theres nothing there, The racor has a lot of restance like trying to blow up a balloon, My old boat i had a napa screw on type water seperator, 25yrs not a issue one. Does anybody have some imput on these racors,I have heard they are the best,also heard that some had to run a high Vol. pump?? Any thoughts thanks.

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    Member spoiled one's Avatar
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    Default

    Was it a new racor? The reason I ask is that they are rated for a specific GPH. If you have a filter that cannot keep up for the demand of fuel, the engine could be being starved.
    Spending my kids' inheritance with them, one adventure at a time.

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    Member SusitnaAk's Avatar
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    The boat came with it, No issues the first yr. I changed it,the filter part.. with the same part No# it had on it. Also talked with dealer in town for these, And had asked about the flow rate, was assured it was proper??? Thought they, might have gotten bad batch, Also once it catches the boat will run WOT with no problem all way up to 4300 rpm. cruse at 3600 for 1hr travel time, Thats whats bugging me?? just don,t know what to think.. Thanks for the reply.

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    Default Racor 660R-RAC-01

    Susitna

    I spent several years selling racor filters - you will not find a better product. There is almost always two main problems that's commonly done with those units.
    1. The customer buys a unit thats not rated for the max GPH of the unit they are trying to support.
    2. The other main problem is usually associated with the way the unit is
    piped in. Many times it's associated with a quick disconnect they have installed in the line or the tubing is not big enough IE 5/16 when it should be 3/6 ID hose. If you have installed a quick disconnect - try removing them on a temp basis for a test run.

    The unit you should have on that boat is a Racor 660R-Rac-01 unless it's
    an inboard and the filter is installed in the engine compartment - if installed in the engine compartment it MUST have a metal bowl on the filter & that would be a racor 660R-RAC-02
    Make sure when you attach the filter to not get the seal crossed up - this would allow the unit to suck air and not seal.

    http://www.marine-electronics-unlimi...t_id=PR1414-10
    Last edited by akfishnut; 03-31-2009 at 22:40. Reason: format
    How stupid is it to be wasting tons of salmon and halibut as bycatch in the Bering Sea and then have the coastal villages hollaring they have no food? It's got to stop!

  5. #5

    Default they tend to plug quickly when they plug

    They work great until they start to plug up. Then they plug up very quickly to the point of restricting fuel flow enough to cause a problem. This is typical of how most liquid filters with very fine effective opening sizes plug. The quick plugging process is calling "blinding".

    I had one blind on me in less than a day. Went from working great the previous trip to the engine stalling due to fuel starvation on the next trip. Put in a new filter cartridge and it worked fine.

    Moral of the story for a small boat is to carry a spare filter cartridge on the boat and keep it sealed in its original shrink wrap until you are ready to use it.........

    Big fancy boats can have two separate filters plumbed in parallel so they can just switch over to the new one when fuel pressure drops to a chosen point as measured on a fuel pressure gauge.

    In water treatment we put a "roughing filter" in front of the "polishing filter" to extend the run life of the "polishing filter"..... I imagine a cheap roughing fuel filter could be used before the Racors to extend their useful life also.

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    Member SusitnaAk's Avatar
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    No quick disconnect or Tees... 3/8in. line, Mines inside with the motor, Metal bowl 9/16 brass drain plug on the bottem. 660R Rac 02. As stated before all ran perfect the first yr. Now than, how about the replacement element Part,no# RACS3228UL Would you happin to Know the Micron rating of this one. Or another partno# i could use that would be rated higher flow? Thanks Jeff

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    Member SusitnaAk's Avatar
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    I had 4 of them in the boat i changed tank lines all new, new fuel, still had trouble, I kept the old ones just to see, I also cut two in half to see if i could tell what was going on, They looked new inside no dirt at all.I had added some additive in the gas,Quit that in the end also in case it was breaking the filter down.No differance there either, It,s just when i changed to that $6.00 Napa barrel filter. The problem went away, three trips no issues. These where last trips moose hunting back to back, than the ice up and the end for the yr. Weak fuel pump?/ Just can,t run my boat without a water/ seperator. Got to get to bottem of this, I think this flow Micron thing has some point to it. I did change out filter first of the yr.Like always just never thought much of it.Of course i Cked the No#they were the same. I have a master list of everything i do, hrs gas how far and parts need to buy for each yr. Oil filters, Fuel filters, Plugs, Oil Ect.. I keep log just like if it where an airplane Thanks for the replys, Keep them coming, Jeff

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    Default Wrong Replacment Installed

    SusintaAK

    If you have an S3328UL installed on a 660R head it's the WRONG element for that base. The S3328UL is a good filter - BUT it goes with the S320R
    head. This one is about 4 inches long.
    The S320R uses an S3327 (most common) or the S3228UL (metal ) Element
    The 660R-RAC-02 (metal base w drain) uses a S3232UL filter and should be almost six inches long. Maybe after you get the correct filter for the base things might work better? I have attached a website that has the specs.
    Hope this helps - good luck

    http://www.maesco.com/products/racor..._gas_spec.html
    How stupid is it to be wasting tons of salmon and halibut as bycatch in the Bering Sea and then have the coastal villages hollaring they have no food? It's got to stop!

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    Default

    I have had a similar problem with a 150 hp Yamaha outboard. It never occurred to me or anyone else that the Raycor filter might have had anything to do with the problem. Like you, I changed everything in the fuel delivery system there was: different lines, tanks, no quick connects, and finally, even the really expensive CDI box. The problem was sporadic so no one could pin it down. I haven't used the rig for a couple of years due to fuel prices but I am going to take it out, bypass the Raycor, and see what happens.

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SusitnaAk View Post
    Getting that time of yr. Put my boat away last fall with a problem, with a fuel issue. Carbed 350 votec motor river boat.Engine start run fine until start put on step than would lose power sometimes just die out, Once it would catch run all the way upstearm no problem ,after going though everything filters, pulled tank,new lines, carb, vent,pickup tube, ect.... i mean just everything from front to back. I by chance had cheap napa inline fiter i carry in the box, put it on, by passed the racor and Bingo, no more problems.

    Just a guess here but I have spent a lot of time dealing with fuel issues over the years. Sounds like it may be the only thing that you haven't checked in your trouble shooting - my first guess would have been the pick up tube but you replaced that.

    You may have a stuck check valve (anti siphon valve) in the line (a spring loaded ball valve that prevents fuel from flowing backwards) This would allow the filter to drain back into the tank and the boat won't run with a high demand for fuel until the filter is refilled (sucks air) - Same effect as running it dry on one tank quickly switching to another tank and immediately trying to get back on step. I know from experience that it doesn't take much to have this check ball stick.

    I have used the raycor filters for years and they cured all problems I had previously. I have had them shut down with an excess of water, poured out the water and ran again with the same filter. From my experience I would have a hard time believing it was a new filter element causing the problem.

    Good Luck

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    Mine pickup tube dos not have a ck vale in it, The boat will always just fire right up idle perfect, used to in my old boat take them off dump them run again, thought new boat new filter,Now than akfishnut got this right on the head, I just crawled underneath trap on boat looked on mount and have my spare in my hand Sure enough it is not a 320R-Rac_02 It reads on the box it is a replacement element for?? It is only 4 1/8 long And it has add, stated 3times the media.Outboard use only... Hum... I will be looking for 3232 today, I,m at this dealer everyday..Thank you for the tip!!!!!! Now only 6weeks to try it out i will let you know how it go Thaks Jeff

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    Quote Originally Posted by SusitnaAk View Post
    Mine pickup tube dos not have a ck vale in it, The boat will always just fire right up idle perfect, used to in my old boat take them off dump them run again, thought new boat new filter,Now than akfishnut got this right on the head, I just crawled underneath trap on boat looked on mount and have my spare in my hand Sure enough it is not a 320R-Rac_02 It reads on the box it is a replacement element for?? It is only 4 1/8 long And it has add, stated 3times the media.Outboard use only... Hum... I will be looking for 3232 today, I,m at this dealer everyday..Thank you for the tip!!!!!! Now only 6weeks to try it out i will let you know how it go Thaks Jeff
    The pickup tube would not have the check valve - it would be at the tank, at the filter, or in line - I believe by law all boat manufactures have to put a check valve in. With an empty filter the boat will fire up and run at an idle on the fuel in the carb and it won't sputter until the huge demand on an empty filter hits when you power up to go on step.

    Sounds like you have it figured out anyway - but I would keep this in mind - I would think an incorrect filter would either work all the time or fail all the time - not just part of the time right after start up.

    This link is to West Marine and will show a picture of the valve and refers to the law.
    http://www.westmarine.com/1/1/4731-a...m-moeller.html

    Good luck and please let us know when you get it figured out - I can always use education on this with the poor quality of fuel we are somtimes forced to use out in the wilds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SusitnaAk View Post
    No quick disconnect or Tees... 3/8in. line, Mines inside with the motor, Metal bowl 9/16 brass drain plug on the bottem. 660R Rac 02. As stated before all ran perfect the first yr. Now than, how about the replacement element Part,no# RACS3228UL Would you happin to Know the Micron rating of this one. Or another partno# i could use that would be rated higher flow? Thanks Jeff
    Part,no# RACS3228UL is Rated at 60 GPH the one for the 660 is rated at 90GPH - Both are way more than required for a 350Chevy. If your boat ran good for a year I would assume the smaller filter sealed fine on the 660 mount.

    I run the RACS3228UL filter on my 351 Windsor and it is plenty big - The highest flow rate I have ever seen is 27 gph while coming on step with 2 moose and loaded down.

  14. #14

    Default Another Idea to Consider Re Racor Filter

    You might have been getting water into your carburetor from the bottom of the Racor housing. It is designed to coalesce the water out of the fuel, and drop it to the bottom of the housing. Up to a point, it won't cause any trouble, but once a few ounces of water accumulates, the engine will see water at any throttle setting except maybe idle. Apparently the higher fuel flow picks the water up from the bottom of the housing.

    Sometimes the problem can be solved just by draining about a cup or so of fuel out of the filter. I carry a disposable storage container (Glad, TakeAlong, etc.) that will hold a couple of cups, fits under the filter housing, and will allow me to get it out of the engine compartment without spilling. If I need to drain the filter, I use the container to catch the drainage, and then funnel the drained water/fuel into a clear plastic pop bottle for disposal once I get back to port. I definitely recommend installing an in-line filter ahead of the Racor, since the Racor elements are relatively expensive. The in-line won't catch water, but it will keep suspended solids from plugging the Racor. I change out the in-line filter every 25 hours of operation.

    By the way, if the in-line filter sees water, it will plug very quickly, so you should always carry a couple of spares with you.

    Good Luck!
    Jim

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    Default Call Racor Tech Services

    SusitnaAK

    In the Racor products book there used to be a phone number for Racor Tech Service. If you could get that number you would be able to talk with a racor service tech. They have some excellent trained personnel that might shed some light on your problems.
    You would have to find a dealer that has a Racor book.

    Also:
    I would recommend that you go down to Ace Supply (E 5th Ave ANCH) and purchase a bottle of water finding paste - this is a brown paste that turns bright purple when water touchs it. You can place a little on the end of a stick and dip it in the fuel - it will show the exact level of any water
    that might be in the bottom of the tank. Keep in mind you need to have the boat motionless for several hours for all the water to settle out.
    If you can access the tank, I would tip the bow real high and test the back corner of the tank.
    How stupid is it to be wasting tons of salmon and halibut as bycatch in the Bering Sea and then have the coastal villages hollaring they have no food? It's got to stop!

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    Heres todays news I do not have the 660 base it is a 320 however the 3232 will fit on to it, so have bought couple of them,They are rated 90gph. Just need some water. to try out!!! A least i have a new plan of action to look forward to! The boat is a custom build,no valve wink!...I don,t think it is water, I drain that fiter before each outing only take a min to do, I have leaned 40+ yrs these small things could cost you in bad spot on the river. Never really had a water issue,The tank was removed and cleaned like new, Also i had ran my 15 gal drums with new fuel new lines Ect....One at a time narrowed down to that filter. I carry Napa barrel filter in case rubb a line though, makes good splice to get home.We ran from main to barrels back and forth as need with no issues.Thought cool i got it,Clean tank, new gas,new filter Lets put everything back as it should, Dropped the napa reconnected racor.Bam the problem started again.Swapped Main, to barrel, same, We stop yanked the hoses off put that Napa in there Last three trips ran perfect!! Just one of those ones that drive you nuts, Gotta love the form, for us to help, swap ideas, and thank all of you for input, I will keep you posted on the results,

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    Quote Originally Posted by SusitnaAk View Post
    Heres todays news I do not have the 660 base it is a 320 however the 3232 will fit on to it, so have bought couple of them,They are rated 90gph. Just need some water. to try out!!! A least i have a new plan of action to look forward to! The boat is a custom build,no valve wink!...,
    Another element added to the investigation - No Check valve -

    Not having a valve could be the same as having one stuck - If you have a tank with no check valve in the line, all you need is an air access to allow the fuel line and filter to siphon back into the tank - (with no valve to stop it "siphon happens") Air access could be at a hose connection, fuel pump, or somewhere in the carb.

    With a racor filter the fuel pump has to refill the filter and the air in the filter has to be removed before it will run properly. With a Napa inline filter the fuel pump only has to fill the line and not the big filter to run properly.

    I only offer other suggestions based on my past experience - I suffered through various fuel issues until I put the Racor system in and I have not had another problem since.

    Good luck - If your going to throw those filters that don't work away I know someone who could use them (Ha)

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    This is a great thread. I had a similar problem last summer and fall with mine and it ended up being water in the fuel tank that would slosh to the pick up on rapid acceleration then fall away. Bugged the heck out of me and I am still not positive how it got in there. Ended up dropping a few bottle of Iso-Heet in there and it went away. I have a napa spin on fuel filter now and plan on putting on the Racor before hading out again just so I can drain the water away. I did not realize there were check valves in the lines and will be sure to check them while I am in there.

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    sorry i took the others back were still new in box paid the difference, I know what you are saying about check valve, but having taken this apart many times i just didn,t find one.Just a note that each time i drained the filter It always had fuel in it.Maybe i created the air when doing that? How ever I have been doing that with every boat i ever owned.I do have the big switch in it off/ AUX , Main.. and i do switch it to off when parked.On extended trips we run barrels And have a Drop line i just put in the barrel hit the switch to AUX, keep on going.I know they do not have the valve, As stated the first 56hrs on this boat it ran perfect. It all coming together in my mind that problem began when i changed that element out at the start of the yr.The thought never acurred to me that i may have put a smalled filter in place of what was there.Those who know me know i,m picky about this stuff.But it could happen, Just don,t know now You put a new one on and toss the old one on you way you go , When you start to have trouble, Go right to vent Nope no Bee,s pickup tube its good, water in the fuel, from sitting all winter sucking air, fuel Lines, than the carb, then the tank, Everyweek end try something until ihad changed cleaned or replace evrything.Now i would always make it there and back, If i eased into the gas let it come on step slowly, It would make all the way back with no trouble, Could even run WOT. for a bit and have no issues.. Well thats my story for now we will see in a month or so i will let you know how it turns out Thanks for the replys

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    Default water

    Water will plug a Racor. If the filter has soaked enough water, it prevents gas from passing through. Unless the bowl is full of water too, you may not realize there is water in the filter. If you smell it, you'll still smell gas. A new filter will solve the problem, but if you have a lot of water in your tank, the problem will reoccur.

    It might be time to drain your tanks. If your boat set all winter with partly empty tanks, condensation can fill them with water. I have seen tanks in the spring completely full of water.

    Also, when you bypassed the Racor with the inline filter, were you using the same line out of your tank that went to the Racor? If not, it could be the pick-up in your tank is being plugged by something in your tank. You'd be surprised what can get into your tank, or GROW on there. Sometimes the boat will run fine, and sometimes the suction will pick something up that is floating around restricting your flow at high rpms.

    But in your situation, the first thing I'd do is try a new filter in the racor and if that works, I'd drain the tank.

    Have you seen ANY water in the bowl of the racor?

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