Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25

Thread: don't try this at home

  1. #1

    Default don't try this at home

    I need a trade off recomendation for weight/effectiveness..........and RECOIL for a bear protection pistol

    Guess I'm getting old

    I tore ligaments in my trigger finger (knuckle) shooting a Smith titanium 44 Mag (will be up for sale soon)

    I figured if you were going to plan on emptying your gun at short range in short order to save your hide you should try that a couple of times

    (I shot 2 cylinders last August )

    that was 8 months ago and last week the doc told me why my hand and wrist has been throbbing ever since

    I'm guessing after surgery that's something I just shouldn't do again

    I liked that Smith because it was a gun I WOULD carry......I carried that baby everywher I went for 4 years......and the gun has got to be with you or it won't do you one wit of good

    (I'm not a big pistol fan)

    Now I'm thinking my viable option will be a auto like a 9mm 40SW or 10mm

    I know my way around bears pretty well so I'm looking at a weapon for protection inside 10 yards.........and lets face it..... a 10' brownie is not what I'm most likely to run into (although I have put a 10'2" on the wall for a client)

    much more of a chance for a black bear or an average size brown/grizz

    I'm expecting the doc will give me the ole "you're better'n new now" line but.........

    But I need something that is milder than that lightweight 44 that was oh so sweet to carry

    I know nothing will be as imperceptible to carry as that titanium Smith.......

    and I know in my heart of hearts that there are better guns out there than a 45 auto I know like the back of my hand

    anybody have a suggestion as to a good compromise gun?

    I just hope I can still shot my .480 Ruger.........even if I now wear a glove dammit

  2. #2

    Default

    I carry a Smith 4 inch mountain gun in .44 mag. It's nowhere near as brutal as the one you have. Load it with something like a 275 grain hardcast, or even a 255 hardcast as a compromise over the heavier kicking 300's. That still beats a 10mm by a wide margin in my book. That would be my recommendation.

  3. #3

    Default Yes, a .44 works well

    More important to place shots as best you can then to shoot as fast as possible unless you can do both at the same time. A 9mm or even 40 S&W isn't adequate. In an auto commonly available, 10mm is probably as good as it gets with heavy flat point bullets, but a .44 mag made of real metal is probably best if your finger will handle it.
    I could never get into carrying a pistol with no weight being the main priority.

  4. #4

    Default 357

    Why not a full size 357?

  5. #5
    Member akrstabout's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    2,291

    Default Glock 20

    With a aftermarket 6" stainless barrel is what I carry now. If I can get within 50 yards or less I will take a black bear with it this spring. When bear hunting I will always have my .375 ruger alaskan on the hunt. Maybe not with me 100%, hence the glock. Light, easy to carry. Carries nice in the chest holster from Alaska sportsman Holster in the Valley. It goes with me hiking or whatever. I have no concerns about the glock going against a bear if need be in close quarters.
    If I get anything for just bear hunting or serious bear protection. Then I would like a John Ross .500. Lighter than the others guns by a lot. So far though the glock is fine and I like it. I don't load it up all the way, 12 rounds total of 230 DT or 200 DT, all hard cast and shoots nice out of my gun.

  6. #6
    New member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    5,416

    Default

    You could consider a 45 Colt. With 300-335 grain cast bullets, loaded properly, the 45 Colt will launch them at the same velocity as a 44mag but at about 8-10000 less CUP which means less recoil. A 300-335gr 45 bullet at 1000fps will do the trick and have less recoil than the 44mag. You could also get a single action revolver like a Ruger Blackhawk so the gun will roll in your hand as opposed to a DA which sends all the recoil into your wrist.

  7. #7
    Moderator Paul H's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    5,594

    Default

    The smallest round I'd personally trust for defense against a bear would be a full strength 357 mag pushing a 180 or 200 gr hard cast @ 1200 fps. I personally just don't feel any of the common semi autos push a heavy enough bullet fast enough to trust my life to. They might work, but again they might not. I'd also consider a 44 mag or 45 colt with a 240-250 gr hard cast at 1000-1200 fps as a prudent minimum, and quite shootable out of the lighter, but not featherweight, revovlers.

    I've also said it before, some folks have gone past the point of reasonable in these featherweight guns. Sure it's nice to have something that is so light you don't notice it. But if you can't shoot it because it's too light to handle, whats the point?

    I shot a s&w scandium 357 mag once, one cylinder full. It was by far the most painful revolver I've ever fired, more painful than a 4 5/8" blackhawk 500 Linebaugh with maximum 440 gr loads. I can't imagine shooting a scandium 44 mag.

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    North Pole
    Posts
    43

    Default What I would do...

    before I got rid of that exceptionally nice carry gun, I would try to moderate the 44 mag loads to lighten up the recoil but still push a hardcast that will do the job. As you stated, you're not trying to put down a 10' brownie. I carry a Smith J frame 357 and at 12.5 ozs it is not fun with full house loads. But it is ok with .38 +P and an absolute joy to carry. Out amongst the four legged critters I would definitely want more firepower as those before me have stated.

  9. #9
    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Missing Palmer AK in Phonix AZ.
    Posts
    6,416

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    I've also said it before, some folks have gone past the point of reasonable in these featherweight guns. Sure it's nice to have something that is so light you don't notice it. But if you can't shoot it because it's too light to handle, whats the point?

    I shot a s&w scandium 357 mag once, one cylinder full. It was by far the most painful revolver I've ever fired, more painful than a 4 5/8" blackhawk 500 Linebaugh with maximum 440 gr loads. I can't imagine shooting a scandium 44 mag.
    Yes my wifeís 357 LadySmith will punish you with full 357s in it! I fear the little thing after one round but the wife does just fine with it. That thing will rip a manís fingers off!

    Andy

  10. #10
    Member akrstabout's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    2,291

    Default Paul H

    The glock 20 is exactly what you described! Double tap ammo in a factory glock will do 1120fps with 230 grain WFNGC or 1300fps with 200 grain WFNGC. I have an 6" aftermarket barrle, KKM stainless. I am good to 50 yards with the factory night sights. Light package to carry. Point and shoot. More accurate than a revolver for me. I am very accurate with a revolver, but in DA. With glock, one in the chamber you just gotta pull the trigger, way faster with multiple shots then a revolver. Considering a JR .500, but I feel it it stay home like the 44 I had. Will see. Or if I do use the glock on a bear and decide I it is not enough. Up close I belive it will be. Hunting out to 50 yards on blackies I believe it will. My first blackie was taken with a 357 smith and wesson with an 8 3/8" barrel with 157 grain hollow points! So not worried with the glock at 41 mag balistics!

  11. #11

    Default Glock 10mm recoil?

    I guess I can go shoot one somewhere with my off hand but.......... what is the recoil like on a glock 10mm?

    I've hot GI 45s and 9 mms and I thought they were pretty tame

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    78

    Default

    Recoil in a Glock 20 is very manageable. The polymer frame absorbs a lot of it. The recoil is substantially lower in my G20 than in my 10mm 1911 or any of the S&W 10xx series I used to own when shooting full power loads. The doubletap 230 grain WFNGC are 1125 FPS at the muzzle and are actually one of the lighter recoiling 10mm loads offered by double tap in my opinion. For comparison, the recoil of +P .45 acp loads is about on the level with 10mm full power loads in terms of recoil. If you fired them out of a 1911 then expect the felt recoil to be less.

    Is it suitable for brown bear? Being from Texas and having never seen a brown bear, I can't tell you. What I can tell you is that in my experience, the Glock 20 may be the most versatile handgun for self defense for humans and animals alike, and that it is just plain fun to shoot.

    Try some lighter loads in your .44 before you give up on it though.

  13. #13
    Moderator hunt_ak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Wasilla--Cantwell Transplant
    Posts
    4,600

    Default

    If you've got smaller hands, take a look at 20SF. On sale online for 511.99...

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by akrstabout View Post
    The glock 20 is exactly what you described! Double tap ammo in a factory glock will do 1120fps with 230 grain WFNGC or 1300fps with 200 grain WFNGC. I have an 6" aftermarket barrle, KKM stainless. I am good to 50 yards with the factory night sights. Light package to carry. Point and shoot. More accurate than a revolver for me. I am very accurate with a revolver, but in DA. With glock, one in the chamber you just gotta pull the trigger, way faster with multiple shots then a revolver. Considering a JR .500, but I feel it it stay home like the 44 I had. Will see. Or if I do use the glock on a bear and decide I it is not enough. Up close I belive it will be. Hunting out to 50 yards on blackies I believe it will. My first blackie was taken with a 357 smith and wesson with an 8 3/8" barrel with 157 grain hollow points! So not worried with the glock at 41 mag balistics!
    I've chronographed the Double Tap 200 and 230 several times out of my G20. Both factory barrel and KKM barrel. Out of 5 different lots I've never gotten past 1050 for the 200 and never seen more than 950 out of the 230. Others claim they have seen near full velocity. However, at these velocities it puts the 10mm with Double Tap nowhere near what you think you are getting out of the box and behind any 4 inch .357 mag with 200 grain loads. It's actually .45 ACP performance. That's my experience over several different lots, your milage may vary but if you're going to trust this load against a bear you should run it over the chronograph first.

  15. #15

    Default

    Of course you can reload the 10mm for higher velocities. There is quite a bit of reloading info out there. akraven

  16. #16
    kenaikid
    Guest

    Default

    I've been carryin an old ruger blackhawk .45 w/4 5/8ths barrel ,they have an aluminum grip frame and ejecter shroud ,larger bore than a .44 which means less weight in cylinder and barrel they are quite light and are capable of throwing heavy pieces of lead, bear load is 335 grn wlfn w/22 grns of h110 recoil is pretty stiff but drop down to a 300 grn wlfn & 19 grs of the same powder and recoil is not damaging.On the used gun market their cheap 250 bucks.They can take a lickin and keep on spittin.
    KK.

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,809

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    The smallest round I'd personally trust for defense against a bear would be a full strength 357 mag pushing a 180 or 200 gr hard cast @ 1200 fps. I personally just don't feel any of the common semi autos push a heavy enough bullet fast enough to trust my life to. They might work, but again they might not. I'd also consider a 44 mag or 45 colt with a 240-250 gr hard cast at 1000-1200 fps as a prudent minimum, and quite shootable out of the lighter, but not featherweight, revovlers.

    I've also said it before, some folks have gone past the point of reasonable in these featherweight guns. Sure it's nice to have something that is so light you don't notice it. But if you can't shoot it because it's too light to handle, whats the point?

    I shot a s&w scandium 357 mag once, one cylinder full. It was by far the most painful revolver I've ever fired, more painful than a 4 5/8" blackhawk 500 Linebaugh with maximum 440 gr loads. I can't imagine shooting a scandium 44 mag.
    Absolutely, Hot Dawg, man Hot.
    I'm glad you said that, like that.
    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska, United States
    Posts
    302

    Default

    Personally, I would put the S&W 500 grips on that airweight 44 and get some of the bear loads that are specifically designed for that firearm. They are loaded lighter, have significantly less recoil and will still do the job with a bear.

    Just my $.02

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul H View Post
    The smallest round I'd personally trust for defense against a bear would be a full strength 357 mag pushing a 180 or 200 gr hard cast @ 1200 fps. I personally just don't feel any of the common semi autos push a heavy enough bullet fast enough to trust my life to. They might work, but again they might not. .
    You can easily load a 10mm to these specs and have a .401 channel instead of .357
    akraven

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,809

    Default Handloading an Auto

    Quote Originally Posted by akraven View Post
    You can easily load a 10mm to these specs and have a .401 channel instead of .357
    akraven
    Are you not LIMITED, with ANY AUTO pistol, as to how HOT you can load them, for fear of overworking the action?

    And, also limited in your bullet choices? (Will you find one suitable?)

    And, need to accept greater odds of the gun JAMMING at the wrong time?

    Add to those downsides, the fact you have to hunt your brass down after firing them, hoping you can find them all, and they are not damaged enough to preclude reloading them, again.

    I'm not AGAINST autos, but there are reasons enough for me to reject them, for keeping bad bears at bay.

    I spose, if I could shoot one more accurately, and faster than a revolver, that would be an advantage. That's probably the reason people consider them.

    Whatcha Tank?

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •