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Thread: DEMOLITION OF MILITARY SPENT CASES, what next?

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    Member aufevermike's Avatar
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    Default DEMOLITION OF MILITARY SPENT CASES, what next?

    If you don't already know the government has issued the destruction of all spent cases. Bidders can still buy the brass but it must be destroyed. This stuff will then be sold to China and others. We as taxpayers are paying for this and now we are not allowed to buy it back and reuse it???????
    I urge you all to e-mail or call Lisa, Don, and Mark. This is my letter to them. PLease feel free to copy it:
    Senator/Conrgressman,
    I am very, very concerned about the idiotic policy change by the DOD that I am about to relate to you. This policy MUST BE REVERSED....ASAP!

    Millions of law abiding gun owners have recently learned that the Defense Logistics Agency has determined that all fired brass casings from ammunition used at military firing ranges must be mutilated before they can be sold as surplus. This means that it can no longer be used by law abiding gun owners who wish to reload the spent brass casings and use them again. When contacted regarding this matter, the DLA could not provide a source or reason for this change in policy.

    This new policy not only negatively affects the millions of reloaders in this country, but it will also negatively affect the profits of corporations such as Georgia Arms and Black Hills Ammunition. These companies purchase large quantities of surplus brass casings and sell it as reloaded ammunition. This move by the DLA to mutilate the brass casings before it can be sold will not only drive the cost of reloads up for gun owners and the corporations that purchase the surplus for resale, but it will also substantially increase the cost to the government due to the added step of having to mutilate the casings before the DLA can sell it. The mutilation process is not only a time consuming effort and an unnecessary additional expense to the government, but it will also reduce the value of the brass by 80%, which further decreases the government's profit margin. All this waste in a period of critical economic times for both citizens and the Federal Government.

    I have recently contacted the NRA - ILA and asked them to look into the matter, and as one of your constituents, I respectfully ask that you look into the matter as well. Thank you for taking the time to consider my request and I look forward to your reply.

    I am a US citizen tax payerand I am absolutely livid about this waste of U.S. Government material that my tax mony has paid for and the infringement on citizens rights as well as the negative effect on small businesses in this country that resell this cartridge brass!

    I will definitely be back in contact to you, regularly, regarding this situation.


    Sincerely,
    R. Michael Paul

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    Member North Polar's Avatar
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    This is the latest from a thread on another forum i visit (link below)

    Lot 7121-5100: 3719 lbs "Fired Brass" 5.56mm, 7.62mm, 9mm and shot shells: Mutiliation not required, EUC required
    Lot 7121-8360: 3420 lbs ""Fired Brass" 5.56mm, 7.62mm: Mutiliation not required, EUC required
    Lot 7121-7230: 4043 lbs "Fired Brass" 5.56mm, 7.62mm, 9mm: Mutiliation not required, EUC required.

    Lot 7108-1 50,000 lbs mix metals scrap.
    Lot 7108-7398 80,000 lbs mix metals scrap.
    Lot 7108-7700 150,000 lbs mix metals scap.
    Lot 7108-7701 150,000 lbs mix metal scrap.
    Lot 7108-7850 200,000 lbs mix metal scrap
    These scrap auctions all list in the descriptions (which the fired brass auctions does NOT say):
    MUTILATION IS REQUIRED. ALL SCRAP UNDER THIS CONTRACT REQUIRES MUTILATION BY THE BUYER PRIOR TO REMOVAL IF ALLOWED BY THE INSTALLATION OR MUTILATION MUST BE WITNESSED AND CERTIFIED BY DOD SURPLUS PERSONNEL AT ANOTHER FACILITY. TITLE TO THE MATERIAL DOES NOT PASS TO THE BUYER UNTIL THE SCRAP HAS BEEN MUTILATED. BUYER AGREES TO ALLOW USG PERSONNEL TO WITNESS DESTRUCTION.


    SO, it appears that if you get an EUL you can still buy the brass.
    LINK

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    We can say thanks to Mr. Bill Clinton for this one!

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    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    Again, just because there are lots of brass currently on the auction block does not mean that the brass destruction order is not going into effect on future lots.

    This brass at the auction house has already left military hands and is now owned by the private auction company. So they can sell it according to the "old rules".

    After the current surplus is gone, there would be no further once-fired brass available from the military source.

    Or this whole thing could be hogwash. We don't have the info yet.
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

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    I listened to GunTalk yesterday while driving down to Kenai. THIS IS THE REAL DEAL. Tom Gresham is about the most level headed talk show host when it comes to 2A rights. Yesterday he said this is where the fight begins. Hyperlink below contains DoD letter re immediate destruction of ALL fired military brass. Even if it's already in the posession of the surplus buyers, it must be destroyed under the observation of the DoD liquidators. This is a serious end around run on our 2A rights. Will post more later.

    the following hyperlink is from a blog called The Shootist by Gordon Hutchinson. His blog website address is www.theshootist.net .

    http://www.theshootist.net/2009/03/d...-military.html
    Last edited by bushboy; 03-16-2009 at 15:13. Reason: added copyright acknowledgement

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    Default Off & on again

    Distruction of military fired brass has been an on again - off again thing over the 30+ years I've been watching it.

    They sold the last big lot out at the base a year or so just before the copper prices plunged - I don't know who bought it and what happened to it but if they didn't turn it quick they may have lost big.

    On the positive side of things it is helping the domestic ammunition makers - profits should be good and the guys unloaded all the ammo they manufactured back when copper and lead prices were much higher than they are today.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    From a different forum (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=435840):

    This is the email that started it all:


    Quote:
    Dear Valued Customer:

    Please take a moment to note important changes set forth by the Defense Logistics Agency:

    Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA's current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately. This notice also requires SV to immediately cease delivery of any fired munitions that have been recently sold or on active term contracts, unless the material has been mutilated prior to sale or SV personnel can attest to the mutilation after delivery. A certificate of destruction is required in either case.

    Thank you,

    DOD Surplus
    15051 N Kierland Blvd # 300
    Scottsdale, AZ 85254
    This is what DOD manual says about Demil Code B:
    http://www.dlis.dla.mil/demil/demil_codes.asp

    Quote:
    DEMILITARIZATION CODES TO BE ASSIGNED TO FEDERAL SUPPLY ITEMS AND CODING GUIDANCE

    DEMILITARIZATION CODES

    CODE EXPLANATION

    A Non-MLI/Non-CCLI -- Demilitarization not required.

    B MLI (Non-SME) -- Demilitarization not required. Trade Security Controls required at disposition.

    C MLI (SME) -- Remove and/or demilitarization installed key point(s), as prescribed in this manual, or lethal parts, components and accessories.

    D MLI (SME) -- Total destruction of item and components so as to preclude restoration or repair to a usable condition by melting, cutting, tearing, scratching, crushing, breaking, punching, neutralizing, etc. (As an alternate, burial or deep water dumping may be used when approved by the DOD Demilitarization Program Office.)

    E MLI -- Demilitarization instructions to be furnished by the DoD Demilitarization Program Office.

    F MLI (SME) -- Demilitarization instructions to be furnished by the Item/Technical Manager/Equipment Specialist.

    G MLI (SME) -- MLI Demilitarization Required -- AEDA. Demilitarization, and, if required, declassification and/or removal of sensitive marking or information, will be accomplished prior to physical transfer to a DRMO. This code will be used for all AEDA items including those which also require declassification and/or removal of sensitive markings or information.

    P MLI (SME) -- MLI (Security Classified Item) -- Declassification, and any other required demilitarization, and removal of any sensitive markings or information will be accomplished prior to accountability or physical transfer to a DRMO. This code will not be assigned to ammunition, explosive and dangerous articles (AEDA) items.

    Q CCLI -- Commerce Control List Item -- Demilitarization not required. CCLIs are dual use (military, commercial and other strategic uses) items under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Industry and Security, U.S. Department of Commerce, through the Export Administration Regulations. The types of items controlled under the CCL are commodities (i.e., equipment, materials, electronics, etc.), software and technology. The CCL does not include those items exclusively controlled by another department or agency of the U.S. government. (See DOD 4160.21-M-1, Chapter 3 and Appendix 5).
    Basically if it's not for export, it's good to go.

    Here is a link to a current auction of: LOT (3719)LBS APPROXIMATELY EXPENDED BRASS TO INCLUDE: 1958 LBS - 5. 56MM, 1007 LBS - 7. 65MM - WITH TWO BOXES BEING FIRED BLANKS (90 LBS), 709 LBS - 9MM, 45 LBS - SHOT GUN SHELLS, 3 PLTS, MUTILATION NOT REQUIRED.

    http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auctio...&convertTo=USD


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    And a counter response to that:

    Jim Shepard addressed this situation this morning in the March 16th issue of "The Shooting wire."

    His source of information was Georgia Arms, which is a well known, and highly respected maker of remanufactured ammunition. He also had received a similar (but not identical) e-mail notification. This is what Jim said:

    The first word of this latest decision came over the weekend when Georgia Arms' Larry Haynie released a letter notifying him of the new requirement.

    For a company with an order in for 30,000 pounds of expended military brass in .223, .308 and .50 BMG, that was not a pleasant notification.

    The e-mail said:

    "Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings. The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction. Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer. Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction. DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government. "

    Georgia Arms was remanufacturing more than one million rounds of .223 ammunition monthly; selling that ammo on the civilian market to resellers and to government agencies all over the country.

    Tomorrow, Georgia Arms will start sending cancellation notices for .223 ammunition to law enforcement agencies across the United States. Haynie says he may have to layoff half of his sixty-person workforce.
    A new welcome page posted on Georgia Arms' website (www.georgia-arms.com) says simply "Due to new government regulations concerning the purchase of surplus brass, we are removing sales of all 223 and all 308 until further notice."

    I would note that while both e-mail messages came from different sources, both are official notices, and both call for "mutilation" of fired ammunition cases before sale.

    I am not ready to believe that the e-mails don't mean exactly what they say until a reliable source, such as the NRA says so.
    Basically, I don't think we know for sure what is going on yet.

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    Member North Polar's Avatar
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    We just needs to get a massive group buy on cases going. Not to mention the discount would be incredible if we got 20+ people each getting over 1k of .223 brass.

    Regardless, this really sucks. (ive got 240 military brass i gotta get around to decapping somehow)

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Polar View Post
    ..............
    Regardless, this really sucks. (ive got 240 military brass i gotta get around to decapping somehow)

    Try running them through a sizer/decapper die. Mil-spec brass works just like all brass.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  11. #11
    Member aufevermike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by North Polar View Post
    We just needs to get a massive group buy on cases going. Not to mention the discount would be incredible if we got 20+ people each getting over 1k of .223 brass.

    Regardless, this really sucks. (ive got 240 military brass i gotta get around to decapping somehow)
    People all over are already doing that. Myself included. I love Lake City brass especially when it is virgin brass. However, I don't mind once fireed either. I usually get mine anywhere from $75-85 per 1000 shipped. I'm glad I got all I need now though. No doubt this will increase the cost of any and all ammo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Try running them through a sizer/decapper die. Mil-spec brass works just like all brass.
    So a regular decapper will take out the military primers? I thought you had to rework the primer pocket or something?

    Btw, where did you buy all that once fired LC brass? I got some unfired a while back at the gunshow and it cycled beautifully with handloads, but i dont really know where to look for a good price on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Polar View Post
    So a regular decapper will take out the military primers? I thought you had to rework the primer pocket or something?

    Btw, where did you buy all that once fired LC brass? I got some unfired a while back at the gunshow and it cycled beautifully with handloads, but i dont really know where to look for a good price on it.

    Yeah, the standard decapping operation will punch it out, then you may need to remove the crimp to reseat the new primer. This can be done several different ways. The primer pocket swage tool (RCBS) seems to be the most indescriminate method but often hand cutting with various tools, even the standard deburring/chamferring tool will work to hand cut them.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  14. #14

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    I have used a pocket knife in a pinch as well.
    I have LC04 that does not seem to have much of a crimp and winchester primers slip right in with a Lee primer tool. That won't work on the Dillon press though.

    The Dillon crimp remover tool works pretty well and is fast. I like it better than the RCBS setup, but it does cost more money!

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    Default Order recinded

    This order has been recinded as of 1630 EST March 17th (today). Go to http://www.georgia-arms.com/ to read more.

    Bottom line, no more ban on once fired brass from DOD

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    Good news...Well done. Now lets get to work on HR45.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wholden View Post
    This order has been recinded as of 1630 EST March 17th (today). Go to http://www.georgia-arms.com/ to read more.

    Bottom line, no more ban on once fired brass from DOD
    That is great news!! Thanks to anyone who took the time to write, email or call their Senators and Congressmen (or women). Makes me still want to believe that the will of the people can still make a difference. But we can't let up in our viligance in keeping our eyes and ears open to other assaults on our 2A rights and then scream from our open mouths at the abuses to come.

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