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Thread: Gov't shuts supply of once fired brass

  1. #1

    Default Gov't shuts supply of once fired brass

    If you reload for military calibers you might want to hold tight to your existing brass supply. Once fired brass will no longer be available from military auctions. This will make the supplies for reloaders even tighter.

    lifted this from another forum:

    Dear Valued Customer:

    Please take a moment to note important changes set forth by the Defense Logistics Agency:

    Recently it has been determined that fired munitions of all calibers, shapes and sizes have been designated to be Demil code B. As a result and in conjunction with DLA's current Demil code B policy, this notice will serve as official notification which requires Scrap Venture (SV) to implement mutilation as a condition of sale for all sales of fired munitions effective immediately. This notice also requires SV to immediately cease delivery of any fired munitions that have been recently sold or on active term contracts, unless the material has been mutilated prior to sale or SV personnel can attest to the mutilation after delivery. A certificate of destruction is required in either case.

    Thank you,

    DOD Surplus
    15051 N Kierland Blvd # 300
    Scottsdale, AZ 85254




    here is a link to the statement from from Georgia Arms website:
    http://georgia-arms.com/

    Attention!!

    Due to new government regulations concerning the purchasing of surplus brass, we are removing sales of all 223 and all 308 until further notice. Below is a copy of the email we received from Government Liquidations.

    "Effective immediately DOD Surplus, LLC, will be implementing new requirements for mutilation of fired shell casings. The new DRMS requirement calls for DOD Surplus personnel to witness the mutilation of the property and sign the Certificate of Destruction. Mutilation of the property can be done at the DRMO, if permitted by the Government, or it may be mutilated at a site chosen by the buyer. Mutilation means that the property will be destroyed to the extent prevents its reuse or reconstruction. DOD Surplus personnel will determine when property has been sufficiently mutilated to meet the requirements of the Government. "


    This is a huge waste of taxpayer's money. The value of these products is reduced by 80% by going from a recycled product to a scrap product.

  2. #2
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    Default

    Yup, common since gun laws! .....right!

    Andy

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    Not gun laws, but executive regulation. Big difference. When federal agencies take it upon themselves, or at the direction of their boss (White House) to implement new rules like this, it completely takes the legislative process and any public input out of the picture. This is just another one of hundreds of terrible regulations that are brewed up within our run-amuck federal agencies. Similar bad ideas can be found everywhere from the BATFE to the National Park Service and all points in between.
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    The general consensus after reading the whole thing is that the cases have to be crushed/mutilated prior to being sold as scrap.

    SO, if you buy it as once fired brass you should be ok.

    I'm not saying that you still wont get screwed by the gov't BUT it can go either way.

    I just hope this gets shot down. I dont like my rifles being pointy clubs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Polar View Post
    The general consensus after reading the whole thing is that the cases have to be crushed/mutilated prior to being sold as scrap.

    SO, if you buy it as once fired brass you should be ok.
    I think you missed the part that says that ALL fired military brass is now classified as scrap. There will no longer be any once fired brass going to the market.

    At least that's how I'm reading it.
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    hmmm... must have missed that. That really sucks for everyone

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    Question Something is not ringing true here.

    Something is hinkey with this. I saw the Scottsdale Arizona address and started to wonder why the DOD would have a snobby address like that. It’s not the government just a contractor named DOD Government Liquidations LLC, a sort of Ebay auction house for surplus. In looking around I found a couple of their auctions for brass that state in bole type “NO MUTILATION REQUIRED” selling 7.62 and 5.56 fired cases.

    Like this one.
    http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auctio...&convertTo=USD

    I don't know what is going on but it looks like noone will know if this is truth or internet bunk till the place opens on Monday.

    Andy

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    And that could simply be that the brass they are unloading right now was acquired before the new rule. There's probably a ton of brass already sitting there in the warehouse that is already in private ownership. But that could be the last brass that they get from the military.

    I know for a fact that the military stopped surplussing ammo cans last year. Those are now crushed and sold as steel scrap instead of whole cans. But, you can still find ammo cans because there are so many already on the market including who knows how many thousand pallets full of them that were released just prior to that announcement. Add the fact that there are so many commercial alternatives to steel ammo cans and there will probably be plenty available for awhile yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    Something is hinkey with this. I saw the Scottsdale Arizona address and started to wonder why the DOD would have a snobby address like that. It’s not the government just a contractor named DOD Government Liquidations LLC, a sort of Ebay auction house for surplus. In looking around I found a couple of their auctions for brass that state in bole type “NO MUTILATION REQUIRED” selling 7.62 and 5.56 fired cases.

    Like this one.
    http://cgi.govliquidation.com/auctio...&convertTo=USD

    I don't know what is going on but it looks like noone will know if this is truth or internet bunk till the place opens on Monday.

    Andy

    Yeah, i saw a whole bunch of those today. I linked that section into the shooting forum's thread. It looks like if you get an EUL you can get around mutilating it. Then again, maybe not. Depends who feels like being a **** which day.

    (edited for spelling)

  10. #10

    Default The real issue

    is that the government is taking this step. There is usually some excess left in the marketplace and more then likely there is plenty of surplus brass, but the government is still seeking such avenues of restriction.

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    Good news: (copied from http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/)

    DOD brass ban lifted
    It looks like the ban has been lifted. Brass casing sold for domestic use will not require mutilation.

    Georgia Arms have updated their website:

    Dear Loyal Customers,

    Thanks to your voice, DOD has rescinded the order to mutilate all spent cases as of 4:30 pm on 3/17/09. We appreciate the time and effort that you expended, together we all made a difference. We will be posting the email we received from DOD as well as any additional information within the next 12-16 hours. Thanks so much and lets get to work!!! Georgia Arms

    This post on ar15.com is apparently by an employee of Government Liquidation:

    Tromatic is actually pretty close with his assessment. The facts as I know them, which come directly from candid discussions with my CEO, indicate the following:

    - Prior to 11/2008, Demil B items required no mutilation for sale to the public. That policy changed in November, but several exceptions were granted. Expended munitions brass was one of those given a waiver.
    - Enter the new administration. Since Demil B category items had been given a broad, general label as “national security sensitive” someone above the DRMS (likely in the DLA) reviewed the policy and immediately went with a CYA policy and yanked all exemptions. No thoughts or considerations were given to the implications of this policy change, but this directive was issued to DOD Surplus effective immediately last week.
    - **** storm blows up as a result. In particular, the letters, phone calls, and emails to our legislators, the media, and anyone else who would listen caused this policy to be review post haste.
    - As of this morning our company was informed that expended munitions brass will now be reclassified as Demil Q –– which requires no mutilation unless sold to a foreign country.

    There you have it. The policy change was simply the result of some n00b administrator attempting to close a perceived “national security” loophole and brass got caught up in the snare. There was no political motivation behind the policy change, but it is good that people like us were suspicious, got involved, and helped bring about a resolution.

    Ed

    This email was sent by the Montana Shooting Sports Association:

    Dear MSSA Friends,

    I just received a phone call from the office of U.S. Senator Tester of Montana to inform me that at 5:15 (EST) today a letter cosigned by Senator Tester (D-MT) and Senator Baucus (D-MT) was faxed to the Department of Defense asking DoD to reverse its new policy requiring destruction of fired military cartridge brass. At 5:30, I am told, Tester’s office received a fax back from DoD saying that the brass destruction policy IS reversed.

    Others report to me that they are already seeing evidence of this on the Websites of entities that liquidate surplus DoD commodities.

    Our thanks go out to Senator Tester and Senator Baucus, and their staff, for getting on this problem promptly and making the reversal happen

    Staff for Tester and Baucus promise they will get me the documentation for this reversal tomorrow morning. I’ll forward that when I get it.

    Best wishes,

    Gary Marbut, president
    Montana Shooting Sports Association
    http://www.mtssa.org
    author, Gun Laws of Montana
    http://www.mtpublish.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by North Polar View Post
    The general consensus after reading the whole thing is that the cases have to be crushed/mutilated prior to being sold as scrap.

    SO, if you buy it as once fired brass you should be ok.

    I'm not saying that you still wont get screwed by the gov't BUT it can go either way.

    I just hope this gets shot down. I dont like my rifles being pointy clubs.
    Let's see ...the government (Dodd and others) purposefully put in a loop hole into the stimulus package to allow AGI to pay bonuses ...made it legal for them to do so since by previously approved contracts, they were bound to. Then later on, the public loses its taste for bail outs and stimulus packages and the government abusively uses legislation and taxes to take 90% of those bonuses back even though it was with their approval, their blessing, and legal, when they were paid. The AGI fiasco is a diversion designed to make our current administration look like the ones that stand for ethics and are the ones to trust, to fight the good fight against evil ...they are afraid that Joe Plumber and John Q. Public won't support the additional bailouts and stimulus packages that Obama already said will be coming. The tax bill being passed right now to tax the money back from AGI is unconstitutional and illegal. You don't think the government won't screw you? Won't act illegally, won't violate the constitution, to do what they want? Our new Dictator, Mr "I set records with executive orders" Obama won't ramrod anything he wants through in order to screw you? Welcome to the New World, friend... Feel the water warming?

    Brian

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    Quote Originally Posted by tananaBrian View Post
    Let's see ...the government (Dodd and others) purposefully put in a loop hole into the stimulus package to allow AGI to pay bonuses ...made it legal for them to do so since by previously approved contracts, they were bound to. Then later on, the public loses its taste for bail outs and stimulus packages and the government abusively uses legislation and taxes to take 90% of those bonuses back even though it was with their approval, their blessing, and legal, when they were paid. The AGI fiasco is a diversion designed to make our current administration look like the ones that stand for ethics and are the ones to trust, to fight the good fight against evil ...they are afraid that Joe Plumber and John Q. Public won't support the additional bailouts and stimulus packages that Obama already said will be coming. The tax bill being passed right now to tax the money back from AGI is unconstitutional and illegal. You don't think the government won't screw you? Won't act illegally, won't violate the constitution, to do what they want? Our new Dictator, Mr "I set records with executive orders" Obama won't ramrod anything he wants through in order to screw you? Welcome to the New World, friend... Feel the water warming?

    Brian

    Thankfully, due to a ton of people making lots of phonecalls, this got turned around a few days ago. A temporary victory at least.

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    What I think I found was the fact that this destruction of surplus brass was actually an item that was put in during the Bush administration. The intent was to prevent large brass (artillary shells?) from falling into the hands of the wrong people.overseas terrorist IUD's). Anyhoo the DOD people got over zellous and included all brass much to the dismay of many small loading business and reloaders. The two Montanna legislators, among many others (Democrate believe or not) were able to contact DOD and get it recinded. WE need to keep track of our gunny friends Where ever we find them. That is all !!

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCountry View Post
    The two Montanna legislators, among many others (Democrate believe or not) were able to contact DOD and get it recinded. WE need to keep track of our gunny friends Where ever we find them. That is all !!
    Yes and that’s especially true when they are elected Democrats. Conservative Democrat today is an oxymoron, but that was not so in the past. I often wonder how and when they lost their way and forgot what true freedom is.

    Andy

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCountry View Post
    (IUD's).


    do you mean IED's.... it would be silly to restrict IUD's since they keep people from getting pregnant :P hahaahah

    just messing with ya man...

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    Sorry about that!! I was kinda close. Sure glad my real name ain't up there. I am over 70 years old so I had a senior moment. OK

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    Default Artillery brass

    It is good that the rule was reversed. The NRA was all over that one, too.

    That said, the thought process that we must destroy our stateside artillery brass so that it can't be used for IED's overseas makes about as much sense as the ticket counter attendant at the airport asking the terrorist if they packed their own bags.

    I'll put up a $ that there is not one single incident of an IED overseas made using an artillery shell casing from a stateside source. This is about the stupidest concept I've heard so far today. Fact is that most of the small IED's are being made from the explosive projectile from Soviet artillery. Not the casing from the little guns (only little guns use casings and an empty brass casing is less useful than standard steel pipe), but the projectile from the big guns such as 152mm, 155mm, and 8-inch. None of those big rounds use a shell casing. They already have the explosives in them and are simply wired up to a detonator and firing device.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCountry View Post
    Sorry about that!! I was kinda close. Sure glad my real name ain't up there. I am over 70 years old so I had a senior moment. OK
    It's fine with me, now if I could get the vission (rifle brass IUD's) out of my head.

    Andy

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