Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: Battery question......?

  1. #1
    Member Akgramps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Last civilized place on the planet
    Posts
    2,078

    Default Battery question......?

    Here I go, trying to learn something new about batteries.
    I plan on adding a second battery to my system, (Basic riverboat).
    The existing battery is only a year or so old and seems ok, it is a marine battery but not a deep cycle battery, its made by Exide and called a "starting battery".
    Exide offers a deep cycle, a dual purpose and a starting battery, the question is, can I use a deep cycle with the starting battery?
    I know the sytem will function as they are both 12 volt group 24 batteries.
    I am wondering if because they are diffrent types, could that shorten the life of both batteries? I know in any dual battery situation both should be replaced at the same time, however if I can save a $ that would be ok.

  2. #2

    Default Info for dual battery use in your boat

    You can mix and match batteries in your boat with no problem if you use a marine battery isolation switch. Deep cycle batteries are designed to survive when repetitively run all or almost all the way down on longer term, low amperage draw conditions. They don't last long if used for starting the main boat motor.

    Starting batteries are designed to survive when used to start engines, which is a short term high amperage draw condition. It isn't conducive to long life to use a deep cycle battery as a starting battery, and it isn't good to run a starting type battery real low (like you would if running an electric trolling motor, for example).

    If you switch from the starting battery over to the deep cycle when you are going to run an electric trolling motor, and then back to the starting battery when you are ready to start the boat's main motor, you can then use the switch to connect both batteries for recharging purposes.

    If you aren't going to repetitively run one of the batteries low, I wouldn't recommend using a deep cycle battery for your second battery. Just install a second starting type battery, along with the battery switch, and generally operate just from one or the other, occasionally switching between them to keep them both fully charged. Then you will always have a fully charged backup.

    Best Regards,
    Jim
    Last edited by midnightsunfun; 03-09-2009 at 21:06. Reason: One more note--You don't need to replace both at the same time.

  3. #3
    Member Akgramps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Last civilized place on the planet
    Posts
    2,078

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by midnightsunfun View Post
    You can mix and match batteries in your boat with no problem if you use a marine battery isolation switch. Deep cycle batteries are designed to survive when repetitively run all or almost all the way down on longer term, low amperage draw conditions. They don't last long if used for starting the main boat motor.

    Starting batteries are designed to survive when used to start engines, which is a short term high amperage draw condition. It isn't conducive to long life to use a deep cycle battery as a starting battery, and it isn't good to run a starting type battery real low (like you would if running an electric trolling motor, for example).

    If you switch from the starting battery over to the deep cycle when you are going to run an electric trolling motor, and then back to the starting battery when you are ready to start the boat's main motor, you can then use the switch to connect both batteries for recharging purposes.

    If you aren't going to repetitively run one of the batteries low, I wouldn't recommend using a deep cycle battery for your second battery. Just install a second starting type battery, along with the battery switch, and generally operate just from one or the other, occasionally switching between them to keep them both fully charged. Then you will always have a fully charged backup.

    Best Regards,
    Jim
    Jim, Thanks for the info, I do plan on adding the second battery for a T. Motor or to operate a winch, so will plan on using a deep cycle. Any battery/ dealer recomendations in Fairbanks?
    John

  4. #4
    New member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    230

    Default I like one of each

    I have had a high cranking amp and a marine deep cycle battery hooked up in my boat for many years. With the isolator switch it makes it easy to run on one or the other depending on what your activity happens to be at the time. If I am out for a few days at a time, I usually switch over each day to run on and charge batteries individually. I put the switch in the "both" position when running long distances.
    I don't think you will have any trouble with the batteries performance because one is older than the other. My batteries are a couple of years apart, the starter battery being the oldest. As long as you keep a good charge in them, especially overwinter, they will last a long time.

  5. #5
    Member bhollis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Juneau
    Posts
    255

    Default

    The deeper you discharge a deep cycle battery, the less long it will last. Although most marine deep cycle batteries will tolerate an occasional 80% discharge, you probably don't want to go below 50% on a regular basis.

    Here's a link to a helpful FAQ on deep cycle batteries.

    http://marine-electronics.net/techar..._faq/b_faq.htm

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Eagle River, AK
    Posts
    124

    Default Concider an ACR

    Look into ACR's ( Automatic charging Relays). When used with the proper battery switch set up, you can keep both batteries isolated and charged as needed. I use one battery for the motor only, and the 2nd battery for all the electronics and stuff. When either battery is fully charged, it automatically drops it out of the charging circuit ( motor alternator ), and automatically adds it back in when necessary.
    I almost never use the battery switch setting at " Both" , because with an ACR, both batteries get charged as needed, stay isolated, and I never have the issue of running both batteries down accidentally because the switch is set to "Both, and I left something on...

  7. #7
    Sponsor potbuilder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Palmer
    Posts
    4,229

    Default

    Any battery/ dealer recomendations in Fairbanks?
    John[/quote]

    I have been using batteries from Costco for about 15 years. I have a 2 battery set up in my bowpicker, with a battery switch (#1 #2 or both). I buy one a new battery about every other year so i always have one fairly new battery on board, its been working great for all these years. I leave the batteries in the boat all winter but have a "smart charger" hooked up to them to keep them nice and snappy.

    Alaska Shrimp Pots

    Rigid & Folding Shrimp & Crab Pots
    Electra Dyne Pot Haulers
    Ropes, Buoys, Bait
    alaskashrimppots.com
    akshrimppots@mtaonline.net
    907 775 1692

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akgramps View Post
    Jim, Thanks for the info, I do plan on adding the second battery for a T. Motor or to operate a winch, so will plan on using a deep cycle. Any battery/ dealer recomendations in Fairbanks?
    John
    I would think that a second start type battery would work just fine for this application. No long term low amp draw involved here. This is actually a high amp short term draw. It would be good to have them isolated to protect the charge for the start battery.
    What-a-Day
    27' x 9.5' Glacier Craft - Volvo 300hp D4 Diesel
    Remember: Any fool can be uncomfortable.
    Denny

  9. #9

    Default

    How hard is it to install a dual battery switch for a mechanically "challenged" guy? I've been thinking about doing that for a couple years.

  10. #10
    Member Akgramps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Last civilized place on the planet
    Posts
    2,078

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskan Fly Guy View Post
    How hard is it to install a dual battery switch for a mechanically "challenged" guy? I've been thinking about doing that for a couple years.
    The switch is fairly simple, I am using a "perko" switch, Napa and West marine would have something similar. Some are just disconnect switches, some are set for dual batteries. Take a close look to make sure it applies to what you want to do. they will come with a wiring diagram.
    Essentially the negatives on both batteries are connected together, the postive from each battery will attach to a lug on the switch. Then from a third lug ("switched lug") on the switch you will attach the wire that runs to the starter on the motor. If you have a console you most likely will have some wiring from there as well. That wiring, which will be a much lighter gauge should also connect to the "switched lug" on your disconnect switch. That way when you turn off the switch everything is off. There can be many variables, but that is the idea for a basic setup.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    3,246

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alaskan Fly Guy View Post
    How hard is it to install a dual battery switch for a mechanically "challenged" guy? I've been thinking about doing that for a couple years.
    I agree it's not hard.
    That being said why is it so many so called profestionals get it wrong?

    Almosts anyone can make it work for a short time. Building a battery system to continue to work for several years, takes a person who knows what he is doing.


    Not knowing what I am doing, never stopped me from learing what to do and how to do it.

    Go for it.

  12. #12
    Member chico99645's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Palmer
    Posts
    1,481

    Default

    I'm a firm believer in Optima Blue Top Batteries (Deep Cycle). It can operate upside down, Sideways, there is no liquid inside and no maintenance and they hold an awesome charge.They have outlasted any other battery I have ever used I would dare to day 2 to 1. Optima is all I buy for anything I ride. I put a full charge on it, and disconnect the cables in the fall, and come spring time, they are ready to go.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Tennessee
    Posts
    3,568

    Default

    I purchased 4 of the Sears AGM batteries last spring. I have never used a battery that retained a charge as long as they do. Sears even gives them a full 3 year warranty for free replacement.
    The batteries are rated as both "starting" and "deep cycle"
    Tennessee

  14. #14
    Member AKBassking's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    SE Alaska-Summer Columbia River-Winter
    Posts
    2,007

    Default Hey Gramps

    I have a two battery system in my Wooly. I used an ACR for years, then when I repowered, I discovered that Evinrude has a seperate charging circuit for dual batteries. I have one marine starting battery that is only used to start the big 250 and the kicker.

    The other battery is a Marine Deep cycle which is the "house" battery and everything else is connected to that. If I remove the batterries in the winter and store them in the garage they last me about 4 years +. I get mine from Costco or Walmart.

    Good luck

    ALASKAN SEA-DUCTION
    1988 M/Y Camargue YachtFisher
    MMSI# 338131469
    Blog: http://alaskanseaduction.blogspot.com/

  15. #15
    Member f0zzy2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    374

    Default odyssey batts

    http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batt...1200series.htm
    I just installed two of these. supposed to be the latest and greatest technology. I mostly did it because of there size. Two fit prefectly under my dog house. I couldn't find them in Fairbanks, only at Batteries plus in Wasilla. I also went with a blue seas dual switch and Batt isolater from napa, www.surepower.com. pretty easy install. I would recommend buying audio battery wire, it's the same marine grade (tinned copper) for about 1/3 of the price. http://knukonceptz.com/. good luck

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    anchorage
    Posts
    344

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by f0zzy2 View Post
    http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batt...1200series.htm
    I just installed two of these. supposed to be the latest and greatest technology. I mostly did it because of there size. Two fit prefectly under my dog house. I couldn't find them in Fairbanks, only at Batteries plus in Wasilla. I also went with a blue seas dual switch and Batt isolater from napa, www.surepower.com. pretty easy install. I would recommend buying audio battery wire, it's the same marine grade (tinned copper) for about 1/3 of the price. http://knukonceptz.com/. good luck
    I looked for the audio battery wire you suggested at the knukonceptz link but couldn't find it. Can you narrow it down?

    Thanks

  17. #17
    Member Akgramps's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Last civilized place on the planet
    Posts
    2,078

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AKBassking View Post
    I have a two battery system in my Wooly. I used an ACR for years, then when I repowered, I discovered that Evinrude has a seperate charging circuit for dual batteries. I have one marine starting battery that is only used to start the big 250 and the kicker.

    The other battery is a Marine Deep cycle which is the "house" battery and everything else is connected to that. If I remove the batterries in the winter and store them in the garage they last me about 4 years +. I get mine from Costco or Walmart.

    Good luck
    I did not learn about ACR's untill recently, I will hav e to check to se if my Johnson has a seperate charging system for dual batteries.

    Quote Originally Posted by f0zzy2 View Post
    http://www.odysseybatteries.com/batt...1200series.htm
    I just installed two of these. supposed to be the latest and greatest technology. I mostly did it because of there size. Two fit prefectly under my dog house. I couldn't find them in Fairbanks, only at Batteries plus in Wasilla. I also went with a blue seas dual switch and Batt isolater from napa, www.surepower.com. pretty easy install. I would recommend buying audio battery wire, it's the same marine grade (tinned copper) for about 1/3 of the price. http://knukonceptz.com/. good luck
    I have used a odyssey battery in motorcyle since new in 04 and still working , they are great batteries. Its good to know there is a scource instate.

    Quote Originally Posted by bushboy View Post
    I looked for the audio battery wire you suggested at the knukonceptz link but couldn't find it. Can you narrow it down?

    Thanks
    If you are in Anch. or Fairbanks you can get that cable at Alaska Battery, its called, guess what? "Boat cable" and comes in diffrent guages with a romex type jacket, and wires are tinned. cant remeber the cost, I didnt need but 20 feet so no big deal.

  18. #18
    Member f0zzy2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    374

    Default cable

    http://knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KFX4R
    Description: Kolossus Fleks Kable 4 Gauge Red Power Wire features 2058 Tinned Strands of Pure Oxygen Free Copper and a new UltraFleks Matte PVC Jacket. Our new jacket allows for improved flexibility and maintains exceptional resistance to abrasion, oil, and extreme temperatures (-40 to 105 C). Capable of loads up to 150A. This product can be used in Marine applications. Price is per one foot

    This is what I used for For $1.40 a foot the prices I found in town for marine cable was 5.99 a foot. I ran power to the front of my boat to a bus terminal os I bought 40 ft, saved alot plus shipping was cheap. Larry

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    161

    Default deep cycle

    There is no reason a deep cycle can't be used for starting an engine. The difference between a deep cycle and a starting battery are that the lead plates in a deep cycle are solid vs being porous in a starting battery. Resulting in less reactivity and therefore less peak current production. So if you want the same "cranking" amps from a deep cycle as a starting battery you have to oversize it. For a boat I don't use anything but a deep cycle.

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    anchorage
    Posts
    344

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by f0zzy2 View Post
    http://knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KFX4R
    Description: Kolossus Fleks Kable 4 Gauge Red Power Wire features 2058 Tinned Strands of Pure Oxygen Free Copper and a new UltraFleks Matte PVC Jacket. Our new jacket allows for improved flexibility and maintains exceptional resistance to abrasion, oil, and extreme temperatures (-40 to 105 C). Capable of loads up to 150A. This product can be used in Marine applications. Price is per one foot

    This is what I used for For $1.40 a foot the prices I found in town for marine cable was 5.99 a foot. I ran power to the front of my boat to a bus terminal os I bought 40 ft, saved alot plus shipping was cheap. Larry
    Thanks for the reply. Lots of good info in this thread. Akgramps thanks for the reply also - just looking to save some $$$ if possible.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •