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Thread: Trash and dash

  1. #1
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    Default Trash and dash

    So now that the City of Kenai has spent the $$$$$$ to "protect the dunes" from thrashers I wonder if it will be enforced. I know the locals are fed up with the attitude of people who come there legally and not to load up and run back to who knows where. Should locals have to pay to access an area they pay taxes on all year. Thoughts out there?

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    Member thewhop2000's Avatar
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    Smile user fees and such

    I show up every year, pay my 20 to 30 something dollars a day, for parking/camping. Spend @ $250 every weekend, at that location for gas,food, entertainment and such. In 2007, there were @ 21,500 household permits issued, for the Kenai/Kasilof areas. Close to 5000 of those were from the Kenai and @ the same for Soldotna. That puts @ 10,000 permits in the hands of the " locals". So who is complaining and why? I see tenfold the amount of people in the summer compared to the rolled up sidewalks in the winter. Seems to me it is just a case for NIMBY or certain groups of users wanting more in their own pocket than wanting to share. Put another way, if only the locals had access, I guess we should just throw out the state constitution, and divide the state up into locals having access only. That puts me, from the Mat-su, having access to unit 13 Caribou, and no Peninsula folks allowed.
    There was a guy named Butler that is an Attorney down there and represents Commercial interests. He sprouted off a year or two ago on saving the sand dunes by stopping dipnetting altogether. This was at a Kenai city Council meeting and everyone was astounded by his remarks . If you are interested, I can send you the link to the local paper on that. It quotes him verbattem. The point being, Soldotna and Kenai benifit greatly, financially , from all of us "outoftowners!!! Not all of us dipnetters walk all overthe dunes. What about those setnetters driving their wheelers above shoreline. I see many of them parking and camping in the grasses also. You don't hear a hue or cry about them. They have been doing that for generations and where is the Outcry. SORRY, for the rant!! It just always seem to be a one way street when the masses just try to put a little food in the freezer. Those are my thoughts, What say you?

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    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    Default

    I say the attitude of the "out of towners" does tick off us locals. The few bucks you spend on ice and gas goes to Safeway Corp in California and Tesoro in Texas. Most do NOT patronize the local establishments where the $$$ stays local.

    Then to have the city restrict the access to the beach for locals is just a punch in the eye. I can't even go take the dog for a walk on the beach during dipnetting season as I would be charged that same full day access fee as an "out of towner" that's here for dipnetting.

    They are welcome to come down and partake, but show a little respect while you're here. As for the fees, if you driver's license has a Soldotna/Kenai area address, they ought to get in for $1. Keep the full fee for the "out of towners". As a local, I'm tired of not being able to even get to the resources in my back yard due to valley over crowding.
    Winter is Coming...

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    Default Local fees

    No Alaskan should have to pay "out of towner" rates at home. The local parks are closed by the state all winter which is bad enough but the bursting crowds that arrive here for a fish run and split minus their litter costs the city bucu bucks ie; the local tax payer. Give a local a break!

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    Member tjm's Avatar
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    do you guys really feel that you are somehow special just because you live closest to the river? ...the resource belongs to all Alaskans, as do all the resources in the state....the whining is comical to say the least...and I hear your tax complaint...news flash, we all pay taxes for stuff we don't ALL use.......I don't like it anymore than the next guy...
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  6. #6

    Default a little bit

    I'd be lying if I said I don't feel special, lucky and even a bit more entitled to the resource that is minutes away from my house. I consciously know that is not accurate. Its' human nature to develop a sense of belonging and ownership to your local area and I've got it. We enjoy a somewhat small town feel to the Kenai, Soldotna, Kasilof area for 11 months and then get over run with people during a remarkable time of the year. Sure makes me glad I don’t have to live like that year round like most of the rest of the states.

    That said, I don't think the dipnet fishery in its present form is long for this world. The fish belong to the citizens of the US and the Alaska only thing is going to be hard to fend off when challenges come, and I think they will. Its grown too much because it is too good to be true. Hope I’m wrong because I really do like the ability to efficiently harvest food and its truly a unique Alaskan experience. So I’ll ask the “out-of-towners” what about the “out-of-staters” entitlements?

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    Default flawed logic

    The Buffalo Shoot really took off in 1989 when the Exxon Valdez ran aground. Overescapement was looking like a reality so fish and game relaxed the rules and people went nuts...lol. I lived on the bluff overlooking the river. People liked it so much they more or less demanded that they could continue the fun in future years. The circus that it has now become reminds me of a very good movie. Do you remember Dancing With Wolves? How many will come? Well they have come. Now it's Dancing with Salmon. Can you imagine the heartbreak the Chief of the Kenaitzes would feel if he stood on the bluff and looked down? Was "subsistence" and "personal use" fishing ever practiced by EVERYBODY in one location? Why has it become every Alaskan's God given right to harvest a years supply right here? And when it gets challenged, and it will, every Americans? What a joke! Do you really think the fish and the environment can take it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    They are welcome to come down and partake, but show a little respect while you're here. As for the fees, if you driver's license has a Soldotna/Kenai area address, they ought to get in for $1. Keep the full fee for the "out of towners". As a local, I'm tired of not being able to even get to the resources in my back yard due to valley over crowding.
    How much do you pay in Kenai Burrough property taxes? I live in Anchorage, but the land I own in Kenai costs me $6000+ each year in taxes. Am I an "out of towner"? Shouldn't I get in for a $1?

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    Member JOAT's Avatar
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    If you own property here, then obviously you'd be considered a "local" as far as the issue at hand. Don't make it so complicated.
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

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    Let’s face it. The reason so many out of towners come here is there is no room left in Anchorage to fish. The large runs that use to exist (ship creek) are all but dried up. The nonsense at the Russian river is a good example. With the collapse of the red run last year it shows that forces are at work to limit the resource. Shall we keep taking until it collapses completely?

    As far as being a local, yah I don't like the crowds and reckless attitudes that dump fish carcasses anywhere they please and attract bears that then have to be delt with by locals. I remember when the valley was the place to fill a net. Take a look at the Jim creek/Knik area and how its trashed and you wonder why locals turn a wary eye towards outsiders.

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    Member tjm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ALASKAGUNHUNTER View Post
    Let’s face it. The reason so many out of towners come here is there is no room left in Anchorage to fish.
    wrong...lets face it, they are there for the unique experience and it is the closest place to dip net. It has absolutely nothing to do with ship creek or jim creek or Anchorage or all of south central...

    Quote Originally Posted by ALASKAGUNHUNTER View Post
    The nonsense at the Russian river is a good example.
    good example of what? again, nothing to do with personal use on the kenai...ok, for you statistics guys, there is always a correlation between 2 things but it is so near zero it is 'statistically' insignificant...

    Quote Originally Posted by ALASKAGUNHUNTER View Post
    Shall we keep taking until it collapses completely?
    so you think the solution is to limit PU users? I thought your beef was the $20 dollar bill you have to drop to use the PUBLIC access...so which is it? do you want a freebie to the beach or do you want to stop the PU fishery?...

    Quote Originally Posted by ALASKAGUNHUNTER View Post
    I remember when the valley was the place to fill a net.
    the valley was never THE place to fill a net, yes there was a PU fishery on Fish creek back in the day but not comparable to the Kenai...with all your 'grasping' you should have a handful of straws by now...lol...

    Quote Originally Posted by ALASKAGUNHUNTER View Post
    Take a look at the Jim creek/Knik area and how its trashed
    When was the last time you were in the Jim Creek area?....your comments imply that it has been quite a while, you're preaching stereotypes...

    Quote Originally Posted by ALASKAGUNHUNTER View Post
    and you wonder why locals turn a wary eye towards outsiders.
    again, I thought this was a beef about the cost of access for peninsula residents...it appears that you simply don't want anyone on YOUR river...

    I understand your frustration, and like Chaos said, it is difficult not to have those feelings about your home turf....it is how a guy reacts and comments on the issue that defines the type of guy they are....

    your desire to reduce the fee's for 'locals' addresses YOUR issue with parting with a $20 bill, it does nothing to address the real issues you should be concerned with....if you really gave a rip about the area, why don't you try to organize a 'clean up'...it happens every year out at Jim creek, take a run out there sometime to see how 'trashed' it is...lol...it just might inspire ya....
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    Default

    I can understand the locals wanting reduced entry fees. As an out-of-towner, I would resent it a bit. But the big complaint doesn't seem to be the people, but the irresponsible behaviour - especially trash. Probably been discussed, but perhaps stepped-up litter law enforcement, with HEFTY fines, by uniformed officers present, would put the fear and some respect into all the dippers! And bring in some revenue for Kenai/Soldotna to cover the costs.

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    Member tjm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mort View Post
    I with HEFTY fines,
    hefty fine for littering, im with you on that one, isn't there a $1000 littering fine?...I'd sure be nice to see that enforced, wouldn't take too many folks getting that ticket until word got out....
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    Member Vince's Avatar
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    hmmm now i Remember why i don't venture over here to fishing very often...

    you guys kinda creep me out about all this me me me stuff...

    by the way... been in AK, longer then more then a few folks around this site..


    never fished the Kenai.. never will...Nor the russian... deep creek any of them south of the little SU.... i learned as a kid, that when it comes to fishing, the locals down there sucked and the out of towner's were even worse... kinda spoiled it for me then. and now.. have fun, don't shoot each other.... and if you gotta pee do it up stream of the guy you want to leave
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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    Member Rock_skipper's Avatar
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    Heck stick up a couple of trail cams and catch the litter bugs, get the ones that don't show the flash.

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    Default Welcome, Welcome

    As a local and a Kenai Peninsula resident since I was born (26 years) I do kinda have a certain feeling of ownership of the Kenai but I'm willing to share.... The rush of people from Anchorage and the Valley bring business to the Kenai. It was said on here that only large businesses like Safeway/Tesoro benefit. Well I disagree, my wife is a waitress at one of the local restaurants. July is one of her busiest months and we appreciate the kindness and good tipping of Anchorage/Valley residents. However, I do think that it is important for the dipnetters not to abuse the fishery. That goes for locals and non locals. Only take the amount of fish you will consume during the winter. I see it every year, the excitement of catching fish gets to people and before they know it they have way more fish than needed. Sometimes I here it being said like it's a competition between folks. "Yeah, we netted 47 in an hour and a half yesterday hopefully it's as good today". I can only hope that they eat lots of salmon when I hear those comments. So once again take only what you will use. And if you catch a large King please think before you keep it. Sometimes in the heat of the moment the excitement overcomes reality. I have witnessed several large Kings caught in dip nets and after the hooting and hollering most look down and say "man, we probably should have let that one go to be caught on a rod and reel." I have never kept a King myself but I have been on many boats with people who have. Now I usually bring it up before launching the boat. When everyone has clear thinking ask the question "does anyone want to keep a king or let them go and get them on a rod?" Some will say yes they want to keep one and I'm ok with that I just don't like the hustle and bustle, get him in the boat bonk him on the head and the go "dang, we should have let him. go"..........

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    Thumbs up good reminder

    I thought that was a really good post. I have also observed lots of people showing no regard for what they were really doing. Just because you can doesn't mean you should or have too. Please don't take more than you will enjoy eating. If you have freezer burned fish in the spring you should really take a good look at your harvest next year. That's shameful waste for the thrill of the "Buffalo Shoot". Nice post, Johnscd.

  18. #18

    Default

    I don't really care for all the local vs "non-local" debate... but man do I agree with those that said only keep what you will eat... It just drives me nuts to see people keeping way mroe fish then they will eat/use.

    Years from now when the Salmon run is lower still, and we have less Salmon to fish for you can thank those that abused the system today.
    Alaska Fishing Forums : They are my addiction!

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    Default Over Harvest With No Enforcement

    Many times I have seen people dip netting far more salmon than a HUGE
    family could consume. I was at the docks a few years ago and watched one boat arrive with four garbage cans full of salmon - I have enven seen one case of a fifty five gallon drum full of fish - It often makes you wonder if those fish were processed in time before they spoiled.
    In several years of going dipnetting I have never been checked for a license or a fish count?? It sounds to me like there should be more enforcement by fish & game.
    How stupid is it to be wasting tons of salmon and halibut as bycatch in the Bering Sea and then have the coastal villages hollaring they have no food? It's got to stop!

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    This us versus them mentality really annoys me. We are all Alaskans and we all should have equal access to the resources this state has to offer.

    Do Kenai residents get charged more when they come to Anchorage to shop? I do not see a sign at the Costco stating that Kenai residents pay more than Anchorage residents.

    If people are breaking the rules while dipnetting, then F&G should be there fining them. Just takes one officer at the boat ramp checking people as they leave.

    Why make more rules when all you have to do is enforce the ones that already exist? I see the waste down there every year. A good portion of it is from out of state folks who ship the fish out and sell it. Nail a few of them and everyone else will soon get the message.

    This is a classic case of 5% of the people causing 90% of the problems.
    Just a bitter Alaskan clinging to his guns and religion.....

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