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Thread: Bonus Points are Here

  1. #1
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Default Bonus Points are Here

    I wasn't in favor of this proposal, but by adopting an amended version of Prop 241 the BoG has brought the bonus point system to Alaska. According to the proposal as amended, it will only apply to sheep and bison draws.

  2. #2

    Default bummer

    Did they approve the move from 3 to 6 application choices.

  3. #3
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whitepalm View Post
    Did they approve the move from 3 to 6 application choices.
    No, but it looks like they'll be bringing it up again down the road.

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    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    That is not good. The sheep draws are now probably once in a lifetime.

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    I've been paying attn to the meetings but had to slip down to the river yesterday and today for a break. Discussing 16 bear trapping now maybe addressing choppers tonight too.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chisana View Post
    That is not good. The sheep draws are now probably once in a lifetime.
    That's fine with me. I have lots of sheep and need only one bison. Maybe my luck of the bison draw will improve.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    how on earth with 6000 applicates is bonus points gonna help you draw a tag? you'll have the same amount of points as the other 5999 people....
    this is gonna get messy.
    Www.blackriverhunting.com
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  8. #8

    Default Well

    I liked it better when I though I was luckier than other folks.

  9. #9
    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    That's fine with me. I have lots of sheep and need only one bison. Maybe my luck of the bison draw will improve.
    I have at least one of both and would rather have way more sheep! Maybe one of the more remote bison hunts would be fun, but Delta is over rated IMHO.

  10. #10
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I guess it all depends on how they run it. I hope that the bonus points will be specific to the particular tag, or at the least the particular region (ie ds124/125/126 are one region). I don't like any of it but if I am stuck with it there is certainly a lesser of the possible evils. I don't want to see the points accrue for all sheep tags as a conglomerate <sp?>! If those of you that dream of hunting tok want to put in for it year after year to accrue the points to get a once in a lifetime hunt then that is great. Hopefully you will use all three of your tags putting in for the same 3 hunts and leave me the "leftovers" to build points toward.
    I really don't want to see it go to where folks can spend 5 years losing at Tok and then take their pref points and win a chugach tag. I also think if you "get out of line" for a year you lose your spot! I can't even imagine how much it is going to cost us to implement this new system.... I am sure it will be more than the cost of a dozen aerial surveys!

  11. #11
    Member ripnlip's Avatar
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    The points system is crap...ask anyone that has them in place Outside. It is especially bad if they can build points and then apply for a separate unit. Not only that, but it hurts the chances for young hunters to get a chance to draw. Granted, there is still a chance for a "lucky" youngin to draw with the points system in place, its pretty hard to compete with someone whos been applying for years.

  12. #12
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I am well established as being anti pref points. It is going to be very interesting to see what happens since the Chugach tags have non res tag limits now. That means that even if non res build pref points they will still be eliminated if the 10% non res max is met! I think that us residents just kissed the TOK/DCUA permits good by for life folks! Now take a moment to let that sink in... I hope that those of you who have been pushing for this realize what you just did...

  13. #13

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    When the non res is cut back to 10% there will be less harvest = more big sheep. The odds go up on the Alaskan hunter. I dont see the points hurting until after the first draw. You will just have to make your tag count.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pa18tony View Post
    When the non res is cut back to 10% there will be less harvest = more big sheep. The odds go up on the Alaskan hunter. I dont see the points hurting until after the first draw. You will just have to make your tag count.
    The pain won't be in the chugach range where the 10% is in effect, it will be the fact that AK residents just handed the DCUA/TOK tags over to the non-res/guide industry!! I hope that Brian (brain) or some other math wiz takes the time to break down the formula to explain just how screwed we are!

  15. #15
    Member AKFishOn's Avatar
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    I don't know much about the Bonus point system but when recently thinking about going to MT to hunt Elk and or Deer I see everything is drawing for non-resident, besides a few doe and cow tags. I'm all for the same in Alaska, Bou and Moose go to drawing only for non resident, make them all apply with the hefty price of non-res tags then even if they don't hunt they pay the fee. Not trying to stir the pot but I see all other states get more restrictive with general tags, have not seen much effort here in Alaska. Bonus points in my opinion will make it better for the non resident, and perhaps give me a better chance at what I call once in a lifetime tags (certain Sheep areas and Bison). Well we should get on board and increase non resident revenue as most other states have.

  16. #16

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    Just a quick look i found one outfiter had 11 sheep tags. I would think all non res.

  17. #17
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    Default odds

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    That's fine with me. I have lots of sheep and need only one bison. Maybe my luck of the bison draw will improve.
    As BRWNBR pointed out, your odds won't improve one iota. In fact your odds probably just went down. If the same amount of people put in as in the past, your odds would still be the same, but the reality is now, with preference points, more people will apply as they come to realize if they want to be drawn, they will need preference points, so they'll apply just to get the preference points. This will lower your chances, not raise them.

    Here's the reality. Most bison hunts have a less than one% chance of drawing already. What does that mean? It means that the average person who puts in will draw one tag in 100 years preference points or no preference points. Unless they raise the amount of tags available, how will preference points help anyone who has to wait 100 years to be drawn? And how does encouraging more people to apply help? It only helps the state take in more money in the draws. It does nothing to help the average hunter.

    This is bad news for hunters. And if the six choice rule ever passes, it's even worse news. If the state really wanted to help hunters draw, they'd eliminate multiple choices and only allow one choice per species. Then they'd make the tags once per lifetime on the low odds tags like Bison and Sheep, and put a 3 to 5 year no draw rule for any other tag you successfully draw such as Moose or Caribou. By allowing multiple choices without a no draw rule, it encourages people to put in for back up picks to areas they might not really be interested in just to draw a tag. But that backup area for them, might be your first choice so you have more competition and lower odds.

    Another way it might be run that could help that situation would be to draw by order of preference. In that case, only people who listed a hunt as their top choice would be drawn first. Any left over tags would then be drawn for second choice hunters, and if any were still left over, then the third choice guys would get a crack at them.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    how on earth with 6000 applicates is bonus points gonna help you draw a tag? you'll have the same amount of points as the other 5999 people....
    this is gonna get messy.
    Exactly BRWNBR!!! This subject was discussed extensively last year in this thread showing how much the preference point system would really increase ones chances of drawing a 1% bison permit.

  19. #19
    Member upinak's Avatar
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    I was there on the "points" crap they were talking.

    How it will work is that you have to PAY (as per how they were talking) for the "extra points, or bonus points. What they will do then, is take the permits and split them in half... 50% goes to the people who didn't not go into the bonus pot, and 50% that went for the bonus points. More or less two pots. The Bonus people have a 1 in 2 lead.

    Now, they didn't seem to know if the Bison was a once in a life time and the sheep was a one in every four year (depending on the Regs) as of yet. BUT party's can not apply! Non-Res have to HAVE a guide no matter what on any hunts (from the other things they passed).

    Also say you get the "permit" no matter if it was from a Bonus or a Reg, you can not transfer (as per what I remember) NOR can you keep your points by sending the permit back in. You will go back to ZERO!

    I told you all to go to the meetings. This was one of the few things I wanted to be there for.

    This was ONLY for Bison and Sheep.
    Last edited by upinak; 03-08-2009 at 13:52. Reason: forgot to add
    No amount of education can help those who want to remain permanently ignorant of facts, which includes those whom have been educated.

  20. #20
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    I really don't care about the bison tags... I would like to go on the hunt for the meat that is about it. I agree with the above that the pref points are not going to make it better, It is just going to mean that older people will be the only ones to get the tag eventually, which is just simple math.

    My issue is with sheep, and specifically DCUA & TOK. I am not sure what the total permits available for 14C but what ever that number only 10% can now be won by non-res. No number of non res pref points will change that. Since their preference points will not help them win 14c tags non res will not put in for them. That is the positive. The problem is that they will all put in for DCUA/TOK we will likely see a huge increase in people getting their name in the que there. Keep your eyes on the results and you will soon see the shift. Eventually both those areas will be full of non res and their guides, we literally just gave it away.

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