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Thread: Nelchina Moose and Caribou

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Question Nelchina Moose and Caribou

    Can someone that was at the BoG meetings make sense of what they did with regards to the Nelchina herd? There's an article in today's ADN that explains that the board approved the community harvest permits for the Ahtna villages in the region. It also states that this move does away with the Tier II system, but it doesn't say what is going to be done in it's place.

    The Board voted to give a portion of Nelchina hunting permits to eight Alaska Native villages, where local hunters would then share the meat with neighbors. The regional Native corporation, Ahtna Inc., proposed the idea and will oversee the village hunts.

    The vote does away with a controversial subsistence scoring system that rated applicants on how long they've hunted in the region. The state limits the number of moose and caribou hunters can bag in the region each year, so hunters who don't live in one of the villages will apply to hunt for the remaining eligible game.
    So...will there be a drawing hunt for the surplus caribou? Can anyone shed some light?

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    please please let there be a drawing hunt! man i shot my first two caribou out that herd when i was a kid, over the counter tag back then. now i hunt out there all season staring at caribou and know the odds of my boys ever shooting one are slim to none...a draw would be nice, probably be about like the bison draw though...lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Can someone that was at the BoG meetings make sense of what they did with regards to the Nelchina herd? There's an article in today's ADN that explains that the board approved the community harvest permits for the Ahtna villages in the region. It also states that this move does away with the Tier II system, but it doesn't say what is going to be done in it's place.



    So...will there be a drawing hunt for the surplus caribou? Can anyone shed some light?

    That is HUGE news. If that is true that they did away with the scoring system completely I would be very suprised. I can only hope though. The question I have is who is going to be deciding how many permits will be allocated to these villages and what is that going to be based on in coming years?? If anyone can shed some light on this that would be great.

    Honestly, this system as it is explained in the old trusty and reliable ADN is true, I beleive it has some merit. A permit every four years would allow atleast someone I know that currently applies every year to get a permit almost every year. Of course I am selfish and I'm sure this is bad news for the people that used to draw Tier II caribou every year.
    Last edited by Alaska_Lanche; 03-07-2009 at 10:08.

  4. #4

    Default F-ing joke!

    I read that article this morning. This is one of those things that I laughed at when I saw the proposal. It goes 100% against what they have been saying all along. I don't mind the idea of a drawing system, but definitley disagree with giving that kind of preference to a specific group.

    Looks like they are dedicating about 300 caribou and 100 moose to the private group (can anyone say rural preference???). It sounds like they are going to a drawing type system for the remainder, but with a catch. They made a comment toward the end along the lines of

    "About 1,500 people live in the eight Ahtna villages, according to the state. The new rules begin this year, with many questions still to be decided, including how the remaining permits will be awarded to people who don't live in the villages. The goal is to give everyone else the opportunity to get a permit at least once every four years, Bartley said. "

    Sounds like they are trying to make it like some of the sheep/bear hunts, limiting people to one in 4 years. If they do that, it better stay as a resident-only hunt.

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    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    The new plan doesn't sound perfect, but it is better than the old Tier II system. I'll take a drawing hunt to Tier II anytime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska_Lanche View Post
    That is HUGE news. If that is true that they did away with the scoring system completely I would be very suprised. I can only hope though. The question I have is who is going to be deciding how many permits will be allocated to these villages and what is that going to be based on in coming years?? If anyone can shed some light on this that would be great.

    Honestly, this system as it is explained in the old trusty and reliable ADN is true, I beleive it has some merit. A permit every four years would allow atleast someone I know that currently applies every year to get a permit almost every year. Of course I am selfish and I'm sure this is bad news for the people that used to draw Tier II caribou every year.
    The folks who live in Glenallen are the losers for sure on this deal. And there are about 215 more villages looking at this precedence. And then of course everybody knows Anchorage is the largest 'village'.

    I'm not condemning the boards actions BUT it is very likely down the road there could be unintended consequences of this deal.


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    Probably true, however a quick look at last years Tier II winners, only 131 people from Glenallen were awarded permits to begin with under the old system. The new system as explained(which still leaves A LOT of questions in the air) as I see it will allow for a person from each household that has four or more people in it the with the ability to shoot one caribou every year. This new system may actually allow for more households interested in hunting the Nelchina herd that live in Glenallen a chance at a caribou.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anchskier View Post
    Looks like they are dedicating about 300 caribou and 100 moose to the private group (can anyone say rural preference???). It sounds like they are going to a drawing type system for the remainder, but with a catch.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but hasn't the state alloted these villages with land, land in which to hunt? Now the state offers "X" amount of animals on open land?

    Am I understanding this correctly?

    Because you all may remember, the native corps restrict access to almost anyone (Kodiak, Haul Rd area)
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska_Lanche View Post
    Probably true, however a quick look at last years Tier II winners, only 131 people from Glenallen were awarded permits to begin with under the old system. The new system as explained(which still leaves A LOT of questions in the air) as I see it will allow for a person from each household that has four or more people in it the with the ability to shoot one caribou every year. This new system may actually allow for more households interested in hunting the Nelchina herd that live in Glenallen a chance at a caribou.
    I don't believe the people living in "Glenallen" or in the area but not 'in' one of the 8 villages are in that category...I might be wrong on that though.

    Also, as I understand it, AHTNA inc. will decide 'who' gets the community harvest opportunity.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AVALANCHE View Post
    I don't believe the people living in "Glenallen" or in the area but not 'in' one of the 8 villages are in that category...I might be wrong on that though.

    Also, as I understand it, AHTNA inc. will decide 'who' gets the community harvest opportunity.
    No I was suggesting above that the way I see understand (which is probably WAY wrong ) is that household in Alaska whether you live in Anchorage or Glenallen are all in the same boat. Meaning that each household that applies has the possiblity of getting one caribou every four years. But until someone has some facts straight from the BOG's mouth its all specualtion until more info is given.

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    Aren't there some federal permits issued to people in or near Glenallen?

    I think there are.

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    Member Matt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by northriver21 View Post
    Aren't there some federal permits issued to people in or near Glenallen?

    I think there are.
    Exactly. Let's not forget the Federal hunting season!

    Good-bye Tier II! What a joke that was anyways.

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    Member tccak71's Avatar
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    What is going to happen to the general harvest moose season?

    Tim

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    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    there never should a been a teir 2 in the first place...every village in the state could get together and make teir 2 hunts everywhere if they had a mind to.
    I hope it goes to draw, its a state resource, we should all have a equal chance at participating in it..the days of true road system subsitance are gone.
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    What I gathered from the article is there first is the cut to the AHTNA villages...and then the remaining tags will be dispersed through a draw...but the article said the mechanism or details behind that was not set yet, but that it was likely a person had a chance of drawing (on average) a tag every four years... so we'll see how it pans out.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by BRWNBR View Post
    the days of true road system subsitance are gone.
    I agree when it only costs $100 in gas and 3 hours of driving to get your whole family to either Fairbanks or Anchorage to stock up at costco just like everyone else you are hardly rural anymore you just plan a little different.

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    Alaska_Lanche, you know as well as I do that shopping at Costco isn't Traditional and customary.

    What else can be given to these Traditional "Corporations"??

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by DEDWUF View Post
    Alaska_Lanche, you know as well as I do that shopping at Costco isn't Traditional and customary.

    What else can be given to these Traditional "Corporations"??
    Exactly my point. These village can still just easily go to Fairbanks or Anchorage in a 12 hour marathon and stock up on food for a month or two for just $100 in gas. Those were always fun.


    Anyways, enough of my hijacking the thread.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Can someone that was at the BoG meetings make sense of what they did with regards to the Nelchina herd? There's an article in today's ADN that explains that the board approved the community harvest permits for the Ahtna villages in the region. It also states that this move does away with the Tier II system, but it doesn't say what is going to be done in it's place.



    So...will there be a drawing hunt for the surplus caribou? Can anyone shed some light?
    What they really meant to say was: The courts will once again have to explain to the BOG what the State of Alaska Constitution really says. The BOG and the attorney for AHTNA know it is unconstitutional, based on their comments made in public forum. A guy in a black robe will explain this to them.

    And doncha think it kinda comical how they are asking for more money and then taking on known legal expenses that could be avoided.

    I predict a delay in the hunting process, because of legal challenges. Wanna bet?

    As bad as the Tier System is, it is still better than allocating specific numbers of game to native villages. This simply will not stand under constitutional grounds. Contrary to what the attorney for AHTNA thinks, we are still a little more equal than he likes to think. At least with the Tier System, we were all treated equally. This gimme notion is running rampant in our society and needs to be nipped in the bud when at all possible. Even if it means having a judge manage the game.
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    The natives taking more back from the white man. I guess this goes along with our country becoming a socialist nation, well at least if you are not a white male.
    I am sick and tired of the native preference. They have the land that only they can hunt, now they are taking away the hunting on public lands.
    Maybe us white males should just start sending our paychecks to them to make sure they are doing ok. :-(

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