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Thread: couple o questions?

  1. #1

    Question couple o questions?

    I found out today that a fellow (who happens to be a skilled gunsmith) I shoot skeet with has some experience with chambering a standard .348 into the Ackley version, so what I would like to know, is that a significant improvement worth doing? Also, would I be wise to use the original Win 71 barrel or get another for the Ackley and keep the original? I have two 71's with first year manufacture serial numbers, so I'm leaning toward another barrel. Your thoughts?
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

  2. #2
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    Default Get a repro

    I wouldn't touch either of your orginals! You may have to make slight modifications other than the barrel to get the "improved" cartridge to feed right.

    Get one of the repros or a cheap messed up orginal instead if you really want to go that way. With the rather limited selection of .348 bullets I'd go to something like the .450 Alaskan or similar.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maydog View Post
    I found out today that a fellow (who happens to be a skilled gunsmith) I shoot skeet with has some experience with chambering a standard .348 into the Ackley version, so what I would like to know, is that a significant improvement worth doing? Also, would I be wise to use the original Win 71 barrel or get another for the Ackley and keep the original? I have two 71's with first year manufacture serial numbers, so I'm leaning toward another barrel. Your thoughts?
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maydog View Post
    I found out today that a fellow (who happens to be a skilled gunsmith) I shoot skeet with has some experience with chambering a standard .348 into the Ackley version, so what I would like to know, is that a significant improvement worth doing? Also, would I be wise to use the original Win 71 barrel or get another for the Ackley and keep the original? I have two 71's with first year manufacture serial numbers, so I'm leaning toward another barrel. Your thoughts?
    I sure wouldn't mess with either original barrel either. And whether an AI is worth a rebarrel or not, I guess it depends on the value you place on any extra velocity you gain for the expense of a new barrel and probably custom dies.

    If you don't have one, I'd go instead for a rebarrel to 450 Alaska or the sharp shouldered Ackley version. Now you're talking about a much more noticeable change than you'd ever manage with a simple rechamber to 348 AI! You can push those .458 bullets up real close to 458 Win Mag performance, and you'll really know when you cork one off. My own original 450 is wonderfully stocked for handling recoil, but if I don't shift plenty of weight onto my front foot, I have trouble keeping it on the ground, especially with a couple of quick shots. I've never had a 338 Winnie do that, and you're certainly not going to push a 348 bullet that far.

  4. #4

    Talking

    Well, my thoughts on the conversion are: I thought about going to the .358, .416 and .458, but I felt the .348 would be the "most gentle", less complicated route to go because it requires no alterations outside of reaming. And from what I have read, one can gain from 150fps to over 300fps with the AI. The .358 and .416 are supposed to be a great improvement also, but I already have rifles that are from strong 45-70's to the .458, so I would just be duplicating those. The 71's are for more close range shooting (up to 250 yds) and I probably won't gain much by rechambering (I can get close to 2600fps right now with the 200 gr), so like you stated, is the gain something that will be appreciated or will an animal (deer, elk, antelope and caribou) even notice the difference? This is my dilemna. Kinda like replacing a 4cyl with a 6cyl in a jeep...you still have a jeep.
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maydog View Post
    Well, my thoughts on the conversion are: I thought about going to the .358, .416 and .458, but I felt the .348 would be the "most gentle", less complicated route to go because it requires no alterations outside of reaming. And from what I have read, one can gain from 150fps to over 300fps with the AI. The .358 and .416 are supposed to be a great improvement also, but I already have rifles that are from strong 45-70's to the .458, so I would just be duplicating those. The 71's are for more close range shooting (up to 250 yds) and I probably won't gain much by rechambering (I can get close to 2600fps right now with the 200 gr), so like you stated, is the gain something that will be appreciated or will an animal (deer, elk, antelope and caribou) even notice the difference? This is my dilemna. Kinda like replacing a 4cyl with a 6cyl in a jeep...you still have a jeep.
    I recognize your dilemma a little too well! In addition to the 450, I also have 45-70's, 458's, a 444, and a .429 wildcat based on the 45-70. My hesitation on rechambering the 348 is simply based upon a reverence for the original guns. Rebarreling would allow you to swap back to the original barrel any time you wanted.

    On the rebarrel, I've been thinking real hard about a 40 caliber (or more accurately a 41 caliber). A recent post by Murphy talks quite knowledgeably about the 40-64 as a way to accomplish that in a Marlin. That's appealing to me right now for economics and performance. It would be cheaper because standard reamers are available, as are standard loading dies. And with a .410 or .411 bore I could still use pistol bullets for plinking while also having a wider selection of cast and jacketed rifle bullets available. I could "supercharge" it by instead using an M-71 and developing a wildcat based on the 348 case, but trading the extra cost of gun, reamer and dies, for the extra velocity. I get lots of extra velocity compared to the 444 from my 429/45-70 wildcat, especially form heavy bullets. But man. I spent close to a grand to do it, and I already had the rifle.

    Much as I love that wildcat, I bet Murphy's version would be even more versatile, even if game would likely never know the difference if hit with that rather than my own wildcat. But that sure isn't stopping me from planning a new rifle!

  6. #6

    Talking velly interesting

    Can't argue with what you've done...sounds interesting, and I hear you about doing your own thing and the satisfaction that comes with it. That .348 cases seems to have so many viable options because of it's capacity. Not to sound cavalier, but I bought the 71's to hunt with first...investment second. And as far as investment goes, we'll be lucky to get anything in value for our guns down the road, so I say use them, enjoy them, cause that's all one may ever get out of them. Another thing, do you think it's necessary in actuality, to need more than 2600fps (200gr) for med/lge animals under 250 yds? I battle this mentally, cause I've always been a speed freak (cars, women, guns, etc) so it's hard for me to throttle things down. When I started using open sighted lever guns...man the mental anquish I went thru, and still go thru...not being satisfied with mediocricy. That's where the interest and enjoyment comes from, but putting hunting skills back into the equation is winning out.
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

  7. #7

    Default

    I would look at Ackley's book and see what the man himself had to say about the improved version. I seem to remember that in his book he says the feed issues are not worth the velocity increase. But its been awhile since I read it.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Maydog View Post
    Can't argue with what you've done...sounds interesting, and I hear you about doing your own thing and the satisfaction that comes with it. That .348 cases seems to have so many viable options because of it's capacity. Not to sound cavalier, but I bought the 71's to hunt with first...investment second. And as far as investment goes, we'll be lucky to get anything in value for our guns down the road, so I say use them, enjoy them, cause that's all one may ever get out of them. Another thing, do you think it's necessary in actuality, to need more than 2600fps (200gr) for med/lge animals under 250 yds? I battle this mentally, cause I've always been a speed freak (cars, women, guns, etc) so it's hard for me to throttle things down. When I started using open sighted lever guns...man the mental anquish I went thru, and still go thru...not being satisfied with mediocricy. That's where the interest and enjoyment comes from, but putting hunting skills back into the equation is winning out.
    Sounds like we've walked the same paths. But there's a danger in the way you're headed. Once the "hunting" gets a leg up, the next stop is traditional muzzleloader hunting with round balls rather than conicals. I could make a 75 yard shot I'm sure, but I keep them inside 50. And the last deer I shot, I jumped at less than 10 feet and dropped inside 20 yards. Though it was no trophy, I'm prouder of it than any rack on my wall.

  9. #9

    Thumbs up Probably so

    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    Sounds like we've walked the same paths. But there's a danger in the way you're headed. Once the "hunting" gets a leg up, the next stop is traditional muzzleloader hunting with round balls rather than conicals. I could make a 75 yard shot I'm sure, but I keep them inside 50. And the last deer I shot, I jumped at less than 10 feet and dropped inside 20 yards. Though it was no trophy, I'm prouder of it than any rack on my wall.
    Yep, we probably have went down the same paths...so we know most of the pitfalls also, right? To paraphrase the song, "those days in BrownBear's shoes are killing me!" Actually though, I really got heavy into the muzzleloaders for quite some time...still do them on occasion, but I bounce around like ping pong ball. I can honestly say that I've never enjoyed hunting as much as I have for the last half dozen when I went back to levers and open sights. Like you, those animals taken mean as much to me as any in the past. And what's really amazing is that those guns are as effective now as when they were new...you know, right after the stone age.
    Good idea aklefty...I'll check out Ackley's book. Thanks.
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

  10. #10

    Thumbs up

    The smith claims a 200fps velocity increase with no action alterations. Ream the barrel and screw it back on. That will put the velocity in the 2800+fps with 200 grainers, and into a whole nutter class of power. Now...just to find a good barrel. You see where this is going?
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

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