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Thread: ADFG A&Rs are out

  1. #1
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default ADFG A&Rs are out

    Are you ready for the helicopter transport of "hunters" who participate in any bear control programs? Are you ready for the snaring of black bears?

    http://www.boards.adfg.state.ak.us/g...l-mgt-comm.pdf

    Above link, scroll down to the Unit 16 Intensive Management plan.

    Here is a link to the actual A&Rs (Analysis and Recommendations):
    http://www.boards.adfg.state.ak.us/g...pring09-ar.pdf

    Scroll down to proposal 170.

    I was told that the Department would not support the snaring of black bears or helicopter transport of hunters who participate under a control permit unless many "details" were first worked out. There are no details within these plans. None. Nada. It is a flat-out lie that all this will be "closely monitored" by the Department. Alaska Wildlife Troopers opposed it all because they knew it couldn't be closely monitored. And sheesh, big game guides can get a control permit and then clients can fly out in helicopters??? What the hell is going on here...I am both saddened and ashamed that this is being pushed by so-called "hunters."
    Pshaw,

  2. #2
    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    The BOG will likely eat this stuff up. I feel it will only get worse Mark and really have a hard time believing that AWT and ADF&G will do much enforcement of this program if it is adopted. I just don't see where the funding will come from.

  3. #3
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default I know where the funding will come from

    Quote Originally Posted by Chisana
    I feel it will only get worse Mark and really have a hard time believing that AWT and ADF&G will do much enforcement of this program if it is adopted. I just don't see where the funding will come from.
    Word is that since ADFG doesn't have funding to send qualified biologists out to tranquilize any brown bears caught in snares and remove them that SFW-Alaska will offer up their private helicopter on their own dime to fly bios out to dart the captured brown bears.

    Only problem with that is that there are protocols that must be followed whenever Dept personnel tranquilize any animal. Those protocols involve everything from having qualified chopper pilots who are experienced in darting operations, slinging any bears to remove them from the site, insurance concerns if private non-contracting helo and pilot are used, safety of those involved in the entire operation, and more. Basically if the Dept did use private non-contracted freebie helo and pilot, it would break their own protocols. Would be much easier for SFW participants to just shoot, shovel, and shut up.

    And read the regs too on having to check snare every 24 hours. So let's say a brown bear is caught. Say a sow with cubs and momma bear is caught in a snare. Weather prevents flying for a couple days (or more) and helo can't make it out there. Gee that sounds like a problem to me. Or...the set is in the trees and biologists can't dart the bear from the air, which is the desired method. They have to land then walk in and dart the bear from the ground, can't sling it...what do they then do with it? Do all the snares in the area then have to be removed? All these details and more were supposed to be worked out but this thing is being rushed through from on high and those on high don't care to bother with pesky details.

    Sigh,

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    Default black eye

    What a black eye for hunters in general and Alaskans in particular. This is what happens when the lunatic fringe takes over.

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    Why would you want to tranquilize a bear to release it from a snare?
    All you have to do is pull on the release to let the bear loose unharmed.

    Personally, I would want a very long rope on the end of the release.

    Lets say for some unknown reason a brown bear does get killed. Think of all the moose that will be saved. I can only see a win, win for the people in unit 16 and the moose.

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    Member Matt's Avatar
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    It appears a bunch of people are tired of how things are getting done by the ADF&G with the out of hand explosion of bears and other predators in this unit and just want a bunch of bears dead. If I lived in unit 16, I'd kill as many bears as I could find. Test a bunch of different rifles and bullets on `em. Surplus bears. Though, I think the whole snaring issue is total nonsense and hope that the BoG laughs at that idea and brushes it aside.

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    More fuel for the anti's fire.
    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

  8. #8

    Default Laughable if it were not so stupid!

    WE donate a bunch of tags to SFW so they can auction them off somewhere down in America to raise funds so they can implement a commercial hunting enterprise in Alaska using helicopters and call it predator control?

    And at the same time Alaskans are trying to solve predator issues in one area the commercial hunting industry just keeps on using up our sheep, moose and caribou in other areas.

    pathetic.


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    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVALANCHE View Post
    WE donate a bunch of tags to SFW so they can auction them off somewhere down in America to raise funds so they can implement a commercial hunting enterprise in Alaska using helicopters and call it predator control?

    And at the same time Alaskans are trying to solve predator issues in one area the commercial hunting industry just keeps on using up our sheep, moose and caribou in other areas.

    pathetic.
    One of the best summations I have heard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AVALANCHE View Post
    WE donate a bunch of tags to SFW.
    So please tell us all what tags SFW got? And who is WE?



    Quote Originally Posted by AVALANCHE View Post
    commercial hunting enterprise in .
    What commercial enterprise? Are you saying they are getting paid to do this?

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by tv321 View Post
    So please tell us all what tags SFW got? And who is WE?
    WE would be the people of Alaska.

    Are you saying SFW has never had any tags?





    Quote Originally Posted by tv321 View Post
    What commercial enterprise? Are you saying they are getting paid to do this?
    Are you saying SFW unit 16 hunts are 'free'?


  12. #12

    Default Be aware where it is coming from...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chisana View Post
    One of the best summations I have heard.

    A Defenders of Wildlife mole.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by J in AK View Post
    A Defenders of Wildlife mole.
    even if it were true, what difference does it make?


  14. #14
    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J in AK View Post
    A Defenders of Wildlife mole.
    You're calling me a Defenders of Wildlife mole? I hope you've got the sack to back that up if we are ever face to face.

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default think he meant Avalanche, Chisana

    I have to agree with Avalanche; even if he were a DOW "mole," I don't see how it makes his comments any less false or true.

    Black is black no matter who points it out, and white is white no matter who says so. J in AK, I don't know Avalanche...or who he is. So please don't misunderstand me.

  16. #16
    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    I have to agree with Avalanche; even if he were a DOW "mole," I don't see how it makes his comments any less false or true.

    Black is black no matter who points it out, and white is white no matter who says so. J in AK, I don't know Avalanche...or who he is. So please don't misunderstand me.
    Now that I go back and read more carefully I think you're right Mark. Irregardless the truth is the truth regardless of who is speaking it. Glad we have some cool heads around here who can cut through the BS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AVALANCHE View Post
    WE would be the people of Alaska.

    Are you saying SFW has never had any tags??
    I am saying I am not aware of any tags that ADF&G has given to SFW to sell at auction.

    We have had Alaskan guides donate hunts, but SFW has not been awarded any tags from Alaska.

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    Again the ADF&G is god when they back your ideas/plans but when they try something new then you throw a hissy fit! ADF&G has ran out of ideas to tame the bear problems in 16 and are trying a few thing to see if they will help and this includes snaring.

    If it doesn’t work then you won’t see it used again. If it does the job then I would expect to see it utilized until they have the bear numbers where they want them. Again I really don’t see what the big deal is. Is it better to have the bear population continue to increase until they reach a point of starvation?

    How about we let the people (ADF&G) do their job. Wow! I didn’t think I would ever defend ADF&G, since I really think they are piss poor at doing anything else correct. Maybe I need to be on your side! What the hell am I saying!!!!!! You guys have been praising ADF&G for the way they have mis-managed our game the last 20 years so I believe you are wrong with that opinion and you are wrong with all your negativism against predator control.

    I bet if SFW wasn’t involved you wouldn’t have a problem with it!

  19. #19
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tv321 View Post
    Is it better to have the bear population continue to increase until they reach a point of starvation?


    I bet if SFW wasn’t involved you wouldn’t have a problem with it!
    And why are helicopters and snares the only option, Troy? What a gross over-simplification. Just because someone finds the idea of using helicopters for predator control abhorrent doesn't mean that they're wanting to see the bear population explode. Speaking personally, I'd rather see the hunters of Alaska take some responsibility for the problem using the tools they have. Do we really care about the moose population in Unit 16? Well then we need to get off our butts and DO something about it! There is ample opportunity that already exists for an increased harvest in Unit 16, and it can be done without selling out one of our most important regulations.

    As for your last statement there, that shows a complete lack of understanding of who you are talking to. Many of the men involved in this conversation have been involved in management discussions in this state for a long time, and have consistently advocated sound, reasonable management schemes that respect reasonable regulations. SFW is new to the scene in Alaska, and while some here may not be fond of what they're doing, they're not what has brought the ire of many hunters against this proposal. It's not SFW - it's the lack of responsibility that these proposals exhibit that is the problem.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by tv321 View Post
    Again the ADF&G is god when they back your ideas/plans but when they try something new then you throw a hissy fit!
    Umm... a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.

    Quote Originally Posted by tv321 View Post
    ADF&G has ran out of ideas to tame the bear problems in 16 and are trying a few thing to see if they will help and this includes snaring.
    16...the experiment to prefect privatizing predator control as long as it benefits the commercial hunt guiding industry. That's an idea F&G came up with?

    Quote Originally Posted by tv321 View Post
    How about we let the people (ADF&G) do their job.
    Sure you say that now. Before the BOG is done with their meeting SFW will be dissin F&G when things don't go your way.

    Quote Originally Posted by tv321 View Post
    I bet if SFW wasn’t involved you wouldn’t have a problem with it!
    SFW has set out to change the culture of F&G because SFW believed F&G has done a poor job....and SFW knows whats best.

    Your hypothetical constitutes pathetic hype.


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