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Thread: published comments on board proposals

  1. #1
    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Default published comments on board proposals

    http://www.boards.adfg.state.ak.us/g...tinfo/gcal.php

    the troopers and the dept of law have posted comments on the proposals, but the F&G has yet to complete their recommendations...
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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Default

    Glad to see what the Troopers had to say about the use of helicopters for black bear hunting in Unit 16.

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    Member homerdave's Avatar
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    Thumbs down troopers? troopers? they don't care about no steenking troopers

    cause they're the BOG !!!!

    Alas (depending on your point of view) it looks like not only will SFW get to use helo's, they are also likely to get the go ahead for snaring black bears (after a short class ).
    of course little details like what they will do if they snare a brown bear (the dept will helo a bio out to trank it and let it go... at $900/hr for a chopper), whether SFW will be cutting LZ's, and will they be choppering in 4-wheelers are "still being figured out".

    i think that the reason the dept has not put forth any positions on the proposals is that they don't want any media scrutiny before the actual meetings....
    this is going to be a really interesting meeting....
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    cause they're the BOG !!!!

    Alas (depending on your point of view) it looks like not only will SFW get to use helo's, they are also likely to get the go ahead for snaring black bears (after a short class ).
    of course little details like what they will do if they snare a brown bear (the dept will helo a bio out to trank it and let it go... at $900/hr for a chopper), whether SFW will be cutting LZ's, and will they be choppering in 4-wheelers are "still being figured out".

    i think that the reason the dept has not put forth any positions on the proposals is that they don't want any media scrutiny before the actual meetings....
    this is going to be a really interesting meeting....
    Glad we got the boys from Utah helping us figure out how to take care of our problems. Who needs the department when you got SFW.

    Yha...SFW is bringing up some expert bear snarerer's who know how to snare black bears and not grizz.

    Apparently a black bear sticks his foot in a five gallon bucket but a brown bear wont ohhh and then there is the snare in the tree trick....that one is not as fool prof as the bucket trick apparently.....so whats a little by-catch anyways...Fish and game will just launch the helo come out and dart the grizz and let him go.

    I am surprised the Utah boys don't know how to use dart guns and I am even more surprised they need fish and game for anything like holding their hands.

    Man...what Alaskan ever would have thought of bucket snares, tree snares and helicopters to advance the commercial hunting of predators.


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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default Wake up fellow hunters! This is bad news...

    I've been in contact with many biologists on all this for the past couple weeks, as well as ADFG "leadership" and Wildlife Troopers.

    Bottom line: the "fix is in" from the guv's office and her new leadership team, including Corey Rossi, the spokesman and board member of SFW/SFH-Alaska who was recently named "Assistant Commissioner of Abundance Management," a brand new position created by Palin.

    Right off the bat Rossi began campaigning within the Dept. for all the very same things in the SFW/SFH proposals and the one from the Anchorage AC that is nearly identical. What those proposals want to do is to legalize the transport of "hunters" by helicopter who participate in the SFW/SFH-Alaska bear bait camps in Unit 16, under a control permit. They also want to legalize the ability for non-residents to get a control permit. And if that wasn't bad enough (look who chairs the Anchorage AC, and you will figure it all out) they want to allow big game guides to set up bait stations and then have clients (non-residents who would be able to get a control permit) be able to fly out to those sites with helicopters.

    Along with all that they also want to legalize the snaring of black bears in Unit 16 (and the whole dang state down the line with evermore bear control areas) under a control permit.

    Now on the one hand SFW/SFH-Alaska will say (and has said), and I quote: "This is not recreational hunting, this is managed predator control."

    And on the other they consistently refer to it as "hunting" in their literature and newsletters, going as far as saying that bears taken under this kind of scenario are scored in the P&Y record books. One caption in one of their newsletters showing a "hunter" with three fairly large black bears reads: "SFW Alaska member ___ ______ with 3 P&Y black bears taken over bait in a 24 hour period."

    So which is it, hunting or control? How many of you out there want to see helicopter transport of "hunters" be legalized, even under the guise of a "control" program? How many hunters out there want to see the snaring of black bears legalized, knowing full well brown bears would definitely also get caught? For God's sake, how hypocritical is a "control" program designed to put more meat on the tables of Alaskans when it legalizes the wanton waste of perfectly edible, healthy, protein-laden spring black bear meat? How does that make any sense at all?

    Things are heading toward an extremism the likes we've yet seen before if SFW/SFH gets their way via political cronyism and outside monies. If Alaskan resident hunters don't wake up to what is going on then it will be very bad for the future of hunting in Alaska, and the perception of hunting and all that it really is about.

    I'll be at the BOG meeting end of this month speaking out against all this. I hope others do too.

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    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post

    Bottom line: the "fix is in" from the guv's office and her new leadership team, including Corey Rossi, the spokesman and board member of SFW/SFH-Alaska who was recently named "Assistant Commissioner of Abundance Management," a brand new position created by Palin.
    Jennifer Yuhas, formerly of a private "wildlife management" group also recently got a sweet ADF&G appointment. It just gets better every day.

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    Default I think it great!

    ADF&G want 800+ bear gone.

    SFW has the plans to do it.

    In 3 years you will see a moose hunt again in 16. Once this moose hunt starts, predator control will stop and so will hopefully all you cry babies.

    Troy

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    Quote Originally Posted by tv321 View Post
    and so will hopefully all you cry babies.
    Hey aren't you the guy that cries about sheep, guides and airplanes? We all have our axes to grind.

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Troy - Why can't Alaskan hunters do this themselves? If folks are really that concerned about the moose populations in Unit 16, why aren't they out there in droves during the long black bear season? My brother and his friend spent a week baiting in Unit 16 last year. While they took a couple of bears, what they did not see was other hunters putting forth similar effort. There is a ton of weeping and gnashing of teeth over Unit 16 bears and moose, but precious little being done about it by those who have been most vocal. Call in the helicopters? How about getting off our butts and doing something about it ourselves. We are opening a pandora's box here, and the results will not be good. Farming out predator control and doing away with a hallmark restriction will cause great long-term harm for a short-term goal that could be accomplished by other means.

    But hey, what can I say? I'm just another cry-baby.

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    you know, even if the bears are beaten down to the levels SFW wants, what are you gonna do about the deep snows that have been affecting winter survival of moose?
    how about illegal moose hunting by residents? seems there is a strong anecdotal record suggesting that that was a major factor in the extirpation of moose from accessible areas.
    what is the point of killing bears by helicopter in areas that ostensibly (thus the helicopter) are not reachable by legal means? will SFW be leaving wheelers in "convenient" locations?...

    oh, and i will personally foot the bill if rutting moose will go let an unsedated brown bear out of a foot snare
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by tv321 View Post
    ADF&G want 800+ bear gone.

    SFW has the plans to do it.

    In 3 years you will see a moose hunt again in 16. Once this moose hunt starts, predator control will stop and so will hopefully all you cry babies.

    Troy
    So, is the SFW plan secret?

    If so why?

    If not then why not provide the details here?


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    Quote Originally Posted by tv321 View Post

    In 3 years you will see a moose hunt again in 16.
    Can a moose even get to 50" in three years. Even if every Unit 16 bear got whacked today I fail to see how there would be enough legal bulls to hunt in three years.

  13. #13
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    Default geez, Chisana...

    there ya go, using irrefutable facts on an SFW argument... they don't need no steenking facts... they are SFW!!!
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    Default Bushrat,

    Have you contacted P&Y to see if they will allow scoring of these unit 16 bears??
    Would you give some informative info in regards to your bottom line, "the fix is in".

    From the supplied F&G site.
    Non residents to hunt in the implementation area under normal (fair chase only) hunting regulations. Non residents will not be allowed to foot-snare bears or possess a predator control permit, and must possess a regular baiting permit if baiting with out a guide. Non residents may hunt under a resident guides baiting permit.

    Bear control effort will be concentrated in about 1/3 of the Intensive management area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by homerdave View Post
    what is the point of killing bears by helicopter

    Not using helicopter to hunt, using them to get people into the area to hunt. Big difference!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dedwuf
    Have you contacted P&Y to see if they will allow scoring of these unit 16 bears??
    Dedwuf, yes I have contacted P&Y. They told me they would write a position statement on this prior to the Board of Game meeting.

    Inre "the fix is in," what I meant was that Governor Palin has appointed AOC and SFW board members to "leadership" positions within ADFG that outrank everyone but the current commissioner. Right after their appointment, everything changed. Science and conservation went out the window and everything has been ramrodded through the "bottom" levels even though I was told there would be a "bottom up" approach where the views of research and area biologists were heard and given credence to. Add to that the most recent appointment to Board of game of former AOC president and some other things and you should get the picture.

    Inre the other paragraph you wrote, it's a wash really cuz it isn't clear if non-resident hunters would be allowed helo transport to sites operated by a big-game guide who is "guiding" under a control permit.

    Look, I think by now Dedwuf that you and others know I am not opposed to prudent predator mgmt, but let's look honestly and realistically how it is "fair chase" if a guide can get a control permit that basically waives fair chase standards and then flies out clients to hunt under that scenario?

    SFW flew and boated out plenty of non-resident hunters last year in the same program. The only difference was that those clients couldn't take sows with cubs, cubs, and an unlimited number of black bears.

    Again, it just confuses what is "control" and what is fair-chase "hunting" in my book. Anyway, it's the way I see it.
    Best,

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    Quote Originally Posted by AVALANCHE View Post
    So, is the SFW plan secret?

    If so why?

    If not then why not provide the details here?
    Are you asking if SFW is keeping there plans a secret. If they are they are not doing a good job. So far we have hire a few HC 130 gunships to help out. Details are still being talked about by all parties and we should have something more concrete soon. I will post soon looking for those that want to participate in this program. I also plan on doing a womens only hunt. I believe this year we will be able to bring kids under 16 to the bait stations so this will be a great chance for a youngster to havert a bear. So far we have over 100 wanting to go so it looks like we will be busy.

    Here is another fact! Each time you guy bad mouth SFW we get more members. So thank you!

    Why only complain on this site. In fact, I will see if SFW can purchase the air fair for BUSHRAT so he can organize a protest and the upcoming BOG meeting. That would be worth at least another 200 new members. Just make sure the signs are big, so everyone can see the words SFW.

    troy

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    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    I've been in contact with many biologists on all this for the past couple weeks, as well as ADFG "leadership" and Wildlife Troopers.
    Care to name a few of the ADFG leadership? Didn't think so!

    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    Corey Rossi, the spokesman and board member of SFW/SFH-Alaska.
    Here you go again putting "your facts" out when you know he is no longer on the board of SFW.


    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    They also want to legalize the ability for non-residents to get a control permit. And if that wasn't bad enough (look who chairs the Anchorage AC, and you will figure it all out) they want to allow big game guides to set up bait stations and then have clients (non-residents who would be able to get a control permit) be able to fly out to those sites with helicopters.
    SFW doesn't care who takes these bear they just want them harvested. The fact remain that WE ALASKANS don't want to spend the $$$ to go hunt unit 16 bears. So what is the big deal allowing non residents to harvest these bears? At least the ADF&G harvest numbers might be reached. I would rather them hunt these bears then my sheep/goats.



    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    how hypocritical is a "control" program designed to put more meat on the tables of Alaskans when it legalizes the wanton waste of perfectly edible, healthy, protein-laden spring black bear meat? How does that make any sense at all?.
    Also another NON fact by Bushrat. we will be having a sign up list for anyone wanting the meat that is not wanted by the person that harvested the bear. Shall I include you name on this list?

    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    If Alaskan resident hunters don't wake up to what is going on then it will be very bad for the future of hunting in Alaska
    [/SIZE][/FONT]
    Yeah, It is going to suck when ADF&G allows moose hunting again in 16.

  19. #19

    Default Couldn't agree more!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Troy - Why can't Alaskan hunters do this themselves? If folks are really that concerned about the moose populations in Unit 16, why aren't they out there in droves during the long black bear season? My brother and his friend spent a week baiting in Unit 16 last year. While they took a couple of bears, what they did not see was other hunters putting forth similar effort. There is a ton of weeping and gnashing of teeth over Unit 16 bears and moose, but precious little being done about it by those who have been most vocal. Call in the helicopters? How about getting off our butts and doing something about it ourselves. We are opening a pandora's box here, and the results will not be good. Farming out predator control and doing away with a hallmark restriction will cause great long-term harm for a short-term goal that could be accomplished by other means.


    But hey, what can I say? I'm just another cry-baby.

    Brian, I couldn't agree more. Other alternatives should be considered.
    Marc Theiler

  20. #20

    Default Good Points

    Some good points made on both sides. Appreciate the debate guys.
    Marc Theiler

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