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Thread: 454 casull in NEF Survivor 45LC/410

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    Member SteveJCootie's Avatar
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    Default 454 casull in NEF Survivor 45LC/410

    Any thoughts on shooting a 454 casull out of my new NEF Survivor 45LC/410 with nickel barrel? I called the factory, and although the guy on the other end wouldn't say No, he said he had no experience doing that and didn't want to comment either way. The barrel is twice as thick as my Ruger Alaskan in 45LC/454 Casull. I traded the Ruger for a 329PD and have a bunch of 454 ammo left over and would like to shoot it in the Survivor.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    There rifle frames are abit different than their shotgun and combo frames.They do sell rifles that hold more pressure.I think the worst that will happen may be real sticky extraction.

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    I shot one of the NEF singles in 500 S&W and if it wood take that it will take the 454. I think it would actually be a good caliber to have in that frame, with the versatility of the 45 Colt and the 410l. I'm thinking of getting one myself.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Don't think it will chamber and if it did I would not do it due to the vastly greater pressures of the 454.
    If they thought it was safe they would use that as a sales pitch.

    Andy

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    Member SteveJCootie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    Don't think it will chamber and if it did I would not do it due to the vastly greater pressures of the 454.
    If they thought it was safe they would use that as a sales pitch.

    Andy

    Andy, I agree that if the manufacturer thought it was ok they would label it that way. But...maybe the engineer/gunsmith/marketing team didn't even consider the 454. The barrel is already chambered to shoot a 3" .410. I was considering buying some BB 45LC+P and shooting that first before trying a 454 casull

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    Oh, yeah, I blew it. I just looked up that survivor and it is not chambered for the 454, so I would definately say no, do not shoot 454 ammo in it. I though I had heard the gun was designed for the 454, guess not. No it is strictly a 45 Colt/410 shot shell gun.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    I don't know about the NEF's but I seem to remember reading that the revolvers setup for 45LC/410 will not chamber a 454 due to the shape of the chamber. I would try to chamber a 454 and if it does not that will end the possibility right there. Would it be a good idea to fire if one does chamber or to cut the chamber deeper I do not know.

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandhmo View Post
    I don't know about the NEF's but I seem to remember reading that the revolvers setup for 45LC/410 will not chamber a 454 due to the shape of the chamber. I would try to chamber a 454 and if it does not that will end the possibility right there. Would it be a good idea to fire if one does chamber or to cut the chamber deeper I do not know.
    The Judge chamber is why I don't think it would chamber, but I don't know how the NEF is cut so it may.

    I suspect the steel it's made from in the chamber area is not up to the level needed for the 454. If it were I'm sure they would cut the 454 chamber in it and improve the marketability of their gun. I don't buy that they just never had the 454 cross their minds when designing and building the gun. It would likely hold the pressure for "some" number (1 or 10,000 who knows?) of rounds, but be outside the safety margins of the material. Point is it’s never good to go beyond the “safe” working limits, it’s dangerous and at best very bad for the gun.

    With that said don’t let that stop you from getting the gun. A 45lc out of a long sealed rifle barrel like that will have almost the power of a 454 from a revolver. The cylinder gap and short barrel give up a bunch of power compared to a rifle. A 45lc fired from a rifle killed many deer, elk, and even bigger game. With reloading and a slower powder like H110 that can take full advantage of the barrel lenth it should be a great gun for its intended use.

    +P 45lc
    ammo should be as the guns should be built to that standard as I remember, but I'm not 100% sure it. I think when the +P stuff came out all guns built after that are built to take it as it’s too easy to mess up and use the wrong stuff so they just build for it and avoid the legal troubles.
    Someone want to chime in on the +P confusion?


    Murphy, you and I were typing at the same time and when I saw your response I was shocked. I considered asking ya what the heck you were talking about, then I figured you must know something about this gun that I don’t. Had me all turned around, don’t do that no more!!

    Andy

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    Member SteveJCootie's Avatar
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    Ok, makes sense Andy. That's why I posted it here instead of my Mi Forum., you guys seem to give better and more respectful answers. I had no plans of shooting a 454 through it without be absolutely sure I wouldn't hurt myself. Double Tap has a 45LC +P at 335gr WFNGC Hardcast that says 1655 fps out of a 16.5 barrel. That's the length of the NEF Survivor I own. So that equals a Taylor Knockout Value of 35! should be good enough for anything in Michigan. I replaced the front bead sight with a fiber optic green sight and wraped the forend with about 75' of paracord and of course stuffed the storage butt full of goodies, put an ammo band over the stock and filled it with some 3" .410 bird shot and some 45LC. Cool little gun for under $175.00 new. Plus my 5 year old son can handle what little recoil there is even with a 3" .410.

    Steve

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    Default please don't

    I would say that the pressure generated by the .454 round is much greater than either the .45 colt or the .410 !! I handled a derringer the other day that was supposed to be .45/.410 and it would chamber the .454 round ! that would be a scary shot !!

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    i also have a singleshot NEF survivor and love it, it goes nice with my judge. there is a couple of reasons the manufacturer didn't label it for .454 casull. first, the outer diameter of the .454 casing is slightly larger than the .45 colt because the thicker brass was designed to handle much higher pressures without the brass splitting and getting stuck in the chambers. thats the same reason why a .44mag hotload can be made to mave more energy than a .45+p, its ancient case design just isisnt strong enough. another reason is because if the enlongated chamber was even wider than it already was, there would be too much bullet misalignment and gasses lost around the bullet before it was seated in with the rifiling. so because of those reasons im guessing NEF as well as anyother manufacturer has never had a .454/.45/.410 combo to my knowledge.

    however one thing i love about NEF is that they always overbuild thier firearms. it isint marked "+P" on the barrel, and i wont say its ok, but i have read some reviews on .45+P ammo of people saying that it shot good in thier NEF survivor, and also, just think about thier similiar carbine designs such as the full pressure .50 S+W mag?

    i plan on getting some .45+p ammo for mine to shoot occasionally, just not in the judge. i will let you know how it works. hope this helps.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    If you gun has the SB2 frame it will hold as its tested at 70,000psi if its the SB1 frame it will not. Some folks have rechamber the H&R 45colt BC to 454 and it shoots well. The neatest gun of the H&R lot of redo's is the 357mag to 357max. Greybeard outdoors has a good H&R forum. A lot of the 45/70 Buffalo Classics are becomeing 45/120's

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Just did some checking and your gun is built with the SB1 frame and will NOT handle 454 pressure.

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    Default 454 handi

    I don't know where your info came from,but, the "Survivor" models use the "SB2" frame from the factory. The "Survivor" series are also available in .223 and .308. Both of which operate at pressures similar to the .454. The 3" 410 field load actually develops almost as much pressure as a mid range 44mag!
    Handis are also available in 30/06,.270Win,.280Rem, and even .35whelen.
    I actually have a Buffalo Carbine bbl in 45colt that has been re-chambered to 460S&W, it also shoots 454casull, and 45Colt as well.
    If you just cant stand not knowing, tie the rifle to an old tire laying flat on the ground,drop a 454 in it, tie a string to the trigger, point it at a backstop, back off a safe distance and yank the string! Handis have a tendency to pop open under too heavy a load. If it doesn't come open, check the case for pressure signs and inspect the barrel, latch, latch shelf etc. You should get a pretty good idea of the safety by doing that.
    Just for safety's sake, you should confirm that your frame is indeed an SB2 (it should be marked, if not, try www.go2gbo.com) go to the Handi forums and read the FAQ's they can tell you how to ID your frame.
    Oh yea, be SURE to take the choke tube out of the barrel before firing ANY kind of solid projectile! Cuz if you don't, you'll never get it out at all!

    JMHO
    BT

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Well if you will look you will see the the 223&308 are listed as SB2 and the 44mag and 357 and 45 colt are listed as SB1.I guess you could say I got my info from the factory and being around them alot,where did you get your info.I guess to know you can call their number and ask if they will put a rifle barrel on you gun.They will ask for the serial number and tell you no.

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    Default NEF Survivor 410/45Colt Long

    I'v killed two coyotes and shot several deer with my rifle using 454 casulls and have shot over 150 rounds thru it. The guns solid as a rock. The only thing thats ever broken was a Bushnell dusk dawn scope, simmons scope. Both could not handle the recoil. I've used Hornady 300 grain, lighter Magtech, Winchester. I really like the survivor its light weight for those long stalks. Mine is a 16" barrell. Pistol powder burn rate is faster than rifle ammo so the longer the barrel and the heavier the projectile the more likely to explode the barrell.

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    If you look at the factory site it shows cleanly what frame is used. Look at type ammo numbers. SB2 70,000psi 454 and up fine,SB1 35,000psi 454 not a good idea

    http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Shotg...s/survivor.asp

    This 45colt can be rechamber to 454 or 460 with no problem as all guns sold as just rifles are on the SB2 frame

    http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/buffalo.asp

    Also Gundummy you said you would buy the 460 barrel on the 19th and today is the 21 so don't know how much you have shot it,last I heard still waiting on check

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    Default 454 Casull in a NEF 410/45

    I have a NEF Survivor that is chambered for the 410/45 Colt rounds and have fired&nbsp;many&nbsp;454 rounds through it. The Survivor 410/45 Colt is actually a rifle barrel chamber to take a 410<BR>In fact, it is much more accurate witht the 454 than the 45 Colt. Since the cartridge chamber is designed to take a 3 in. 410 round it will also shoot the 460 S&amp;W Magnum which is just under 2.3 in. Unfortunatley, the rifle make a a really crappy shotgun as the rifled barrel scatters the shot&nbsp;to wide even with the removable choke in, I had a gunsmith make a smoothbore extension to replace the the screw in choke the rifle came with (you can not fire a 45,454 or 460 with the choke in) and am having a lower power scope added to it and just use it as a rifle. <BR>If someone could design a screw-in choke that bellows out&nbsp;to about 20 mm and then down to about about a 13mm&nbsp; at the exit hole and has the same groving as the removable choke, it might become an effective shotgun. I have the device pictured in my mind but do do not have the tooling to make it.

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    I've had an NEF Survivor for many years , I've shot countless 454 Casull rounds through it with zero problems. I carry it in my Jeep as it serves the purpose of a real survival rifle. Not much for long range use, but I know it will bring down most anything I might need to kill, from grouse to bears, I wouldn't be without it.

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