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Thread: 416 Ruger-416 Dakota-416 Taylor, comparitive case dimensions??

  1. #1
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Default 416 Ruger-416 Dakota-416 Taylor, comparitive case dimensions??

    Thinking about barreling a Large Ring M-98 action to something interesting.
    I can not find the case dimensions for the darn 416 Ruger anywhere....
    It it about the same as the 416 Dakota?
    Is the 416 Dakota really about the same as a 416 Taylor without the belt?
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  2. #2

    Default Nope

    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    Thinking about barreling a Large Ring M-98 action to something interesting.
    I can not find the case dimensions for the darn 416 Ruger anywhere....
    It it about the same as the 416 Dakota?
    Is the 416 Dakota really about the same as a 416 Taylor without the belt?
    Dakota started with a 404 Case, the 416 Taylor uses a 458 Win Mag case, and the 416 Ruger uses a 9.3 x62 Bren case with a standard .532 (standard 300 Win mag)bolt face ( that's Rugers contribution).Take a 375 Ruger and open the case mouth to .416 (for case dimensions).
    Dakota is a higher volume case than the Taylor. The Taylor has the advantage of using cheaper 458 Win Mag or 338 win Mag brass, sized up or down(easiest is down).
    The dakotas being fat rounds will limit ammo capacity to 2-3 down the mag, the 416 Taylor should allow 3 in the mag and the 416 Ruger will allow 4 in the mag; If that's a consideration .
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  3. #3
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    Default 416-ology..

    Some of brav01's response was correct.

    The Taylor is the 458 necked to 416 and it is the smallest in capacity and is standard action length. I've owned two Taylors made on 98 actions, with good bottom metal, they held four.

    The 416 Remington, which was omitted for reasons unknown, is the same belted case but full H&H length, 2.850", they have the .532" belt and .512" body diameter. The water capacity of the Remington is 104 grains of water, the Taylor is about 92.

    The 416 Dakota is the full length 404 Jeffery as brav01 said and improved to hold more powder, with a water capacity of 110. I have designed a new 416 Dakota, called the 416 Murphy, it is based on the 404 Jeffery but shortened to standard length, as are the 7mm throught 375 Dakotas, at 2.570". The capacity of the 416 Murphy is 104 grains. The old 416 Rigby is the capacity king with 128 grains but it requires a very large action and magazine.

    The Ruger is somewhat surprising with its capacity. It is not based on the 9.3x62 but is close in dimension and capacity to the 9.3x64, probably what was meant here. It was actually designed to use the .532" bolt head of the belted mags. As were the RUMs and WSMs (These two are available in 416) but not made with a fat body and rebated, and unlike the other two and it was made standard length, not short or ultra long. Unlike the belteds, WSMs or RUMs it has the same diameter from rim to body, which is .532" at the rim and base then with only a slight taper to the shoulder. This will generally allow three in the magazine where the WSM or RUM would only give two and the Taylor and Remington will give up to four with some modification. The Ruger is the same length as the Murphy at 2.570" it does fit nicely into a 30-06 length action and will hold 102 grains of water. This based on 375 Ruger cases necked up, I haven't measured an actual headstamped 416 Ruger case. I did make a 416 Kodiak for someone and it was based on the Ruger case but made form the basic brass which gave a slightly longer length, it held 108 grains of water. We can do this with the case using some 400 grain bullets that are cannelured for the 416 Remington, and all for the 416 Rigby as the seating depth will keep the overall length to 3.400", standard magazine length. This is a valid reason for shoosing any of the less than full H&H, Rigby or 404 length rounds. 98 actions can be worked to handle the full length rounds but it weakens the lug raceway.

    A short recap. Length - Capacity and Velocity with 400 grain bullet.
    416 WSM 2.050" ----78 grs,-----2300
    416 Taylor 2.500" ---92 grs.------2350
    416 Remington 2.850" 104 grs.----2400
    416 Ruger 2.570" ----102 grs.----2400
    416 Murphy 2.570" ---104 grs. ----2400
    416 Dakota 2.850" ----110 grs.----2500
    416 RUM 2.860" ------118 grs,-----2550
    416 Rigby 2.900" -----128 grs.-----2400 (original ballistics)
    416 Weatherby 2.913"-134 grs.----2600

    The Remington is the most prolific and will have ammo available world wide. The Ruger will become very popular and is a very practical design and fits a standard action. The Murphy is..... well....simply the best.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  4. #4

    Default 416

    I seem to detect a LITTLE BIAS in the discription of the 416 MURPHY; LoL !
    Sorry you are right my index finger was typing slower than my mind was thinking; the Ruger is based on the 64mm Bren case(modified).
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  5. #5
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Default

    Murphy, how did the Taylors feed from a Mauser 98 action?
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  6. #6

    Default 416 Taylor

    Quote Originally Posted by Float Pilot View Post
    Murphy, how did the Taylors feed from a Mauser 98 action?
    Mine feeds fine; just like a 300 Win mag in a model 70 Winchester. However mine is built on a modern/commercial action; J C Higgins/FN. I should guess there isn't that much difference,other than the thumb grove and stripper guides on the military action.
    Maybe MURPHY will have a better take on this concern.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  7. #7
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    Default Nope! ...

    Actually the Taylor fits and feeds in the Mausers I've had. Both were on the FN actions, one was J.C. higgins Model 50 and both were previously 30-06's with the bolt head opened up and nothing more. I also have a slightly modified 376 Steyr case necked to 411 and it feeds slick as can be also. This 376 Steyr case is a shortened 9.3x64 case, 60 mm vs 64mm, (Hornady's idea) with the body diameter at .506" then I modified it to a .486" shoulder diameter then necked to accept a .411" bullet. This old rifle is over at Gunbugs place right now for some stock work.

    Before I made this beltless 411, I wondered about the 416 bullet with this shoulder, considering headspace concerns, but now after seeing fireformed case I think it will headspace well a 416 bullet and would equal the Taylor in capacity and performance.

    The 60mm case (2.362") allows long heavy bullets to fit where a 30-06 cartridge will fit and I can load 400 grain bullets made for the 450/400 N.E. in this unmodified magazine box. This caliber is a very compact and efficient round. Of course, like the 416 Murphy, it is close to perfect.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  8. #8
    Member Float Pilot's Avatar
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    Default

    Well....

    Now have some ideas rolling around in my head.... Probably time to sell something else to start a new project/experiment... I am getting tired of the ARs. Too many years messing with those aluminum and plastic pop-guns...
    Floatplane,Tailwheel and Firearms Instructor- Dragonfly Aero
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  9. #9
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    Default 416 taylor

    just something to think about I built a taylor on a 98 action 20 in. barrel scout scope it's short fast and a blast to shot I love that round

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