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Thread: 58 cal Kodiak range report

  1. #1
    Member aknewbie's Avatar
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    Question 58 cal Kodiak range report

    Well I finally got a chance to hit the range for a while today. I had some .570 balls and .018" and .015" patches and I had some lubed with bore butter and some with lee resizing lube. I was using 777 ffg and CCI mag #11's.

    I guess I'll start with the good. I didnt have one misfire or hangfire- no hesitation at all. I was a little worried about that at first since 777 tends to be a little hard to light.

    The bad- Accuracy was horrible. There were times that I couldnt even get it on paper at 25 yards! I started with 70gr of 777 and pillow ticking with bore butter and had a 9" group at 25yds. Long story short, I eventually went to the thinner patches and worked from 50gr up to 85 and nothing. Then it dawned on me, "look at your patches dummy!" They were shreadded. Most of them had the center missing, and the rest were not even recognizeable as a patch. There was no difference between the bore butter and lee lube. I also noticed that once I had the ball about 6-8" down the bore it rammed much easier. I think I have a little of a choked bore. It shouldnt be that hard to start the prb's, so im thinking that they arefraying the patches at loading. I think that would also explain the centers missing out of the patches once they are fired. Both barrels had the same result.

    Here is what I am thinking. I went out to find a few things earlier- picked up some .005" and .010" patches to try with the .570's, and I was looking for some .562 balls but to no avail. I want to try the .562's with a thicker patch because I think with a choked bore the thicker patch will help seal the bore better than a bigger ball with a thinner patch. Is my thinking on this correct, or have I completely missed something? Should I be thinning the bore butter sue to the cold? Also, does anyone know if anyone in anchorage has any .562" bound balls on hand?

  2. #2

    Default I'm Blowing Patches As Well!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by aknewbie View Post
    Well I finally got a chance to hit the range for a while today. I had some .570 balls and .018" and .015" patches and I had some lubed with bore butter and some with lee resizing lube. I was using 777 ffg and CCI mag #11's.

    I guess I'll start with the good. I didnt have one misfire or hangfire- no hesitation at all. I was a little worried about that at first since 777 tends to be a little hard to light.

    The bad- Accuracy was horrible. There were times that I couldnt even get it on paper at 25 yards! I started with 70gr of 777 and pillow ticking with bore butter and had a 9" group at 25yds. Long story short, I eventually went to the thinner patches and worked from 50gr up to 85 and nothing. Then it dawned on me, "look at your patches dummy!" They were shreadded. Most of them had the center missing, and the rest were not even recognizeable as a patch. There was no difference between the bore butter and lee lube. I also noticed that once I had the ball about 6-8" down the bore it rammed much easier. I think I have a little of a choked bore. It shouldnt be that hard to start the prb's, so im thinking that they arefraying the patches at loading. I think that would also explain the centers missing out of the patches once they are fired. Both barrels had the same result.

    Here is what I am thinking. I went out to find a few things earlier- picked up some .005" and .010" patches to try with the .570's, and I was looking for some .562 balls but to no avail. I want to try the .562's with a thicker patch because I think with a choked bore the thicker patch will help seal the bore better than a bigger ball with a thinner patch. Is my thinking on this correct, or have I completely missed something? Should I be thinning the bore butter sue to the cold? Also, does anyone know if anyone in anchorage has any .562" bound balls on hand?
    I'm having similar problems with a new GM barrel 1:70" twist. I've shot several combinations and have now narrowed my best results using a .562 ball with WalMart pillow ticking lubed with beeswax and Crisco, shooting 777 powder at 70 grains. At 30 yards with a bench rest I'm practically putting one round inside of the other. Some of my patches are blown in the middle but not like they were before when all of them were either blown in the middle or 75% shredded. My feeling is it doesn't matter to me if they are blown in the middle or not so long as my groups are as good as they are presently. Another thing I thought I would pass along is to tell you that I recently conned my barrel. They were shredding more prior to the cone job. It sure is nice not to have to use the short starter any longer. When I use a .024 canvas patch it's extremely difficult to get that ball down but I have a lot less blown patches. Don't know if any of this will help you, it somewhat comforting to know I'm not the only one out there experiencing some of those same problems. Let's hope we can figure out what's going on.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by aknewbie View Post
    Well I finally got a chance to hit the range for a while today. I had some .570 balls and .018" and .015" patches and I had some lubed with bore butter and some with lee resizing lube. I was using 777 ffg and CCI mag #11's.

    I guess I'll start with the good. I didnt have one misfire or hangfire- no hesitation at all. I was a little worried about that at first since 777 tends to be a little hard to light.

    The bad- Accuracy was horrible. There were times that I couldnt even get it on paper at 25 yards! I started with 70gr of 777 and pillow ticking with bore butter and had a 9" group at 25yds. Long story short, I eventually went to the thinner patches and worked from 50gr up to 85 and nothing. Then it dawned on me, "look at your patches dummy!" They were shreadded. Most of them had the center missing, and the rest were not even recognizeable as a patch. There was no difference between the bore butter and lee lube. I also noticed that once I had the ball about 6-8" down the bore it rammed much easier. I think I have a little of a choked bore. It shouldnt be that hard to start the prb's, so im thinking that they arefraying the patches at loading. I think that would also explain the centers missing out of the patches once they are fired. Both barrels had the same result.

    Here is what I am thinking. I went out to find a few things earlier- picked up some .005" and .010" patches to try with the .570's, and I was looking for some .562 balls but to no avail. I want to try the .562's with a thicker patch because I think with a choked bore the thicker patch will help seal the bore better than a bigger ball with a thinner patch. Is my thinking on this correct, or have I completely missed something? Should I be thinning the bore butter sue to the cold? Also, does anyone know if anyone in anchorage has any .562" bound balls on hand?
    I'd sure be tempted to shove a separate patch down on top of the powder before seating your patched ball- more or less like putting a felt wad under the patched ball. No firsthand experience, but lots of folks report great accuracy improvement in problematic guns. If nothing else, it would help determine if your patches are being blown more by the powder charge or cut by the rifling.

    Hey Pig Valve!!!

  4. #4

    Default

    It is a gas seal problem. If you have a brush for the gun, try wrapping some pillow ticking around it and run it through the barrel. You should be able to feel if the barrel is choked and if the patch comes out cut or clean then you will know if the rifling is cutting the patch. Is it really easy to get the bullet in? If so, your patches are probably too thin. I would try something thicker, .005 and .010 will probably just make it worse. Also a .562 may work with a thicker patch. I know this may sound like a dumb question, but are your patches for a .58 Cal.
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  5. #5
    Member aknewbie's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anton74 View Post
    It is a gas seal problem. If you have a brush for the gun, try wrapping some pillow ticking around it and run it through the barrel. You should be able to feel if the barrel is choked and if the patch comes out cut or clean then you will know if the rifling is cutting the patch. Is it really easy to get the bullet in? If so, your patches are probably too thin. I would try something thicker, .005 and .010 will probably just make it worse. Also a .562 may work with a thicker patch. I know this may sound like a dumb question, but are your patches for a .58 Cal.

    Yes they are for a 58. I also have some pillow ticking that I was using and that was very hard to start. I would have to whack the short starter about 5 times to get it to start so they are not too loose. I rammed a ball and patch and used the bullet puller to get it back out, and there was a little bit of fraying on the patch. I picked up some thinner patches last night, but couldnt find any .562 rb's anywhere. Ill keep looking.

  6. #6
    Member aknewbie's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post
    I'd sure be tempted to shove a separate patch down on top of the powder before seating your patched ball- more or less like putting a felt wad under the patched ball. No firsthand experience, but lots of folks report great accuracy improvement in problematic guns. If nothing else, it would help determine if your patches are being blown more by the powder charge or cut by the rifling.

    Hey Pig Valve!!!

    Ill try that too Brown Bear. I am in the process of cutting some patches right now.

  7. #7

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    I've heard of people using cornmeal as well. About 20 to 40 grains by volume.
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  8. #8
    Member aknewbie's Avatar
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    Default

    Well, I broke down and bought a mold, pot and lead and I am about to start my first try at bullet casting. I was in GNG today and they just so had a double cavity .562 lee mold for $10- so i had to get a pot (just the cast iron one you put on a stove top) and give it a try. Also Joe had some pure lead sheet for me- got 23 pounds of it and I think he has more if anyone is looking for some. So if anyone out there has any advice for a first timer, I would really appretiate it!!!

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by aknewbie View Post
    Well, I broke down and bought a mold, pot and lead and I am about to start my first try at bullet casting. I was in GNG today and they just so had a double cavity .562 lee mold for $10- so i had to get a pot (just the cast iron one you put on a stove top) and give it a try. Also Joe had some pure lead sheet for me- got 23 pounds of it and I think he has more if anyone is looking for some. So if anyone out there has any advice for a first timer, I would really appretiate it!!!
    I'm on the road and can't dig into my library, but get yourself a copy of the Lyman cast bullet manual and read the safety info.

    Aside from that, there's a little "trick" for casting good bullets and balls. As you pour the lead, go ahead and build up a little extra puddle of lead (called the sprue) on top of the sprue cutter before you quit pouring. Watch it, and as it cools and begins to harden a little dimple will appear right over the pour hole. Wait for that before you move the sprue cutter to cut excess and free the balls or bullets. That's so you don't end up with a little void in the ball, which raises cobb with the accuracy of bullets.

    Oh, and be sure to follow Lee's directions for lubing and conditioning the mould. And for heaven's sake, don't beat on the mould block itself if a ball sticks in it. Instead, rap on the hinge of the handles with the same mallet (I use an old hammer handle) to rotate the sprue cutter. Beating on the mould blocks even a little will ruin them in a hurry.

  10. #10

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    Don't melt lead in the house. Try smoothing up the barrel with some JB Bore paste.

  11. #11

    Red face 58 dbl pedersoli

    i have two loads that group well at 100 (3-4 inches).

    pyrodex 90 grains-and a cast lyman heavy skirted minie ball

    ffg 90 grns -same cast lyman as above

    found this to be deadly on moose, blackbear and caribou

    the last caribou i shot, the minie totally seperated the spinal cord in the neck

    as for round ball, i haven't played around much with them as i liked the minie for quick reloads....i found 100 grains to be good also, but went to the lighter

  12. #12
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    Default Patching the Kodiak .58 mini

    Very well illustrated article on patching the mini for a Kodiak .58 at http://members.shaw.ca/bobschewe/

  13. #13

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    I had seen that once and lost track of it. Thanks for posting the link! I've used paperpatch with 600 grain conicals in my 50-140 Sharpes and I know a couple of people who use them in 45 cal muzzleloaders. I don't have a Kodiak, but I'm anxious to try it in my other 58's and 54's. I'm playing with a 62 cal right now, but I don't want to think about the recoil with a hot load under a conical!

  14. #14

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    There is the old recommendation to use hornet nest material as an over-powder "wad" to prevent patch burnout. Since its weight is next to nothing in the amount being used, it has little or no affect on the powder charge used. Harvesting a hornet nest sounds like a good job for young Timmy and his faithful dog Lassie.

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