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Thread: Marine Diesel Economy - What's the best

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    Default Marine Diesel Economy - What's the best

    I was wondering what some of your experiences have been on the fuel economy for the smaller marine diesels. Something that would fit in a boat like the Glacier Craft or maybe a Seasport. I have heard real good reports about the John Deere marine series and the Lugger Marine Diesels.
    I have also heard some very good reports about the Yanmar marine series.

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    Default Bsfc

    A simple way to compare the fuel economy of one engine to another is to get the engine data sheet and look at the brake specific fuel consumption (BSFC) figures. It's a very competitive market, so you will find comparable engines to have very similiar BSFC numbers. Sometimes, in certain horsepower or marine engine ranges you will find one engine that may stand out from the rest.

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    Member AK NIMROD's Avatar
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    Default

    33ft. custom boat i sold 15 months ago burns <7 @20-21kts. twin yanmar 230hp each
    RETIRED U.S.A.F. CAPT.; LIFETIME MEMBER NRA; LIFETIME MEMBER ALASKA BOWHUNTER ASSOC.
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  4. #4

    Default Skeptical about John Deere...

    Friend of mine (in Homer) re-powered his 38' Delta; got rid of his old cummins 555 (I think) in favor of a JD; whoever sold him the engine told him it'd burn less gph, would be quieter, and he'd gain a knot or two top end. He's very disappointed as the JD performs dismally in all areas compared to his old engine. He's burning a third to twice as much fuel, the engine is way louder, and the boat is not any faster. He spent big $$$ on a big mistake.
    Jim

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    Charterboat Operator kodiakcombo's Avatar
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    Default we all have the stories about...

    Whenever someone says your going to gain this and that and save this and that, something is wrong!

    I have a seasport and am on my 6th engine, 1 gas and 5 diesels. Stick with volvo, it is the lesser of all evils or is it wevals.

    Deisel lets you be more feul efficiant with a load, if you boat on weekends get outboards, if you do charters/light commercial fishing frieght runs, haul drift wood for heat, get diesel.

    stay away from merc and yanmar combos.
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    Default Cascade Engines in WA

    Give them a call if you decide to go with a Yanmar diesel. Tim Sandeman is the guy U want to talk to at: 206-764-3850.

  7. #7

    Default Whats up with the Yanmar combo's?

    A friend is considering a Yanmar/Bravo 3 combo for a re-power on a 25' fiberglass 11,000 boat (single power). Would like to know the opinions on this.
    Kodiak, what other engine packages have you run (diesels)? It does seem like Volvo is the way to go but he doesn't like the new ones as they have all electronic controls & computers.
    He's currently running a 210 hp Cummins with a Stern Power outdrive, piece of junk setup. The drives keep breaking, he's got 3 drives and can only get a few fishing trips out of the boat until something gives. Think the boat is pretty heavy and underpowered (will not get on plane with only 210 hp). Heard the new Bravo 3 drive (diesel version) is rated for over 500 hp?
    thanks,
    Jim

  8. #8
    Charterboat Operator kodiakcombo's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Jim View Post
    A friend is considering a Yanmar/Bravo 3 combo for a re-power on a 25' fiberglass 11,000 boat (single power). Would like to know the opinions on this.
    Kodiak, what other engine packages have you run (diesels)? It does seem like Volvo is the way to go but he doesn't like the new ones as they have all electronic controls & computers.
    He's currently running a 210 hp Cummins with a Stern Power outdrive, piece of junk setup. The drives keep breaking, he's got 3 drives and can only get a few fishing trips out of the boat until something gives. Think the boat is pretty heavy and underpowered (will not get on plane with only 210 hp). Heard the new Bravo 3 drive (diesel version) is rated for over 500 hp?
    thanks,

    Jim
    I've had the DP290 with a volvo 350hp gas, then switched the gas for a volvo ad41p with very good results, then was told I would get more power, better feul and longer lasting results with a merc 4.2 detronic with bravo 2X the engine blew at 1200hrs, couldnt get my money back and with a lawyer was able to get a replacement, but that blew at 1200hrs. I put a yanmar in with a new bravo 3X and the outdrives would go out 3times a year, then 5 times before I took out a loan for a volvo D4 225. top speed with yanmnar was 38 knts, top speed with D4 is 33knots and burning half the fuel. I packed 6 55 gal drums on deck with 100gals below and still cruised at 25knts with the D4. My seasport is a coho XL 24, it has a 800# fish hole in the back, a 1000# fish hole in the front, I also put 1000# in 2 totes on deck when the bite is on.Electronic controls are intimidating at first, then they grow on you, once you learn how to override them or reprogram them, very nice!
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    Member Sobie2's Avatar
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    Default

    akfishnut - most success for Seasports are with Volvo D4s that is what all the charter guys in Sitka are running. Not much history with the new mercruiser/cummins yet.

    BigJim - your friend was lied to by the dealer - a 38' delta if it isn't a planing hull (some deltas are planning hulls) he should have been sold an engine that can get it to hull speed and if his engine is larger than the old one he shouldn't be running at a speed that moves his boat faster than hull speed. There are a lot of John Deeres running down here in Southeast on Trollers, Gillnetters, and Seiners that are working out great. A displacement boat won't really go much faster no matter how much fuel and hp is thrown at it.


    To everyone,
    Sterndrive diesels live a hard and sometimes short lives because they are run hard and not given sufficient time to cool down. My father in-law who is a marine surveyor has seen it all. The 4 things you can do to make your diesel sterndrive last other than change the oil is 1)power up and down slowly ie don't mash the throttles, 2)run the motor at cruise no higher than the duty rated rpm suggests and run it less if you can 3) allow the motor to idle a few minutes before you shut down to let the whole engine and turbo cool down when you reach the fishing grounds or dock/anchor and 4) for recreational guys run the boat, many unused diesels corrode away waiting to be run.

    KodiakCombo is right, if you are a weekend warrior pencil it out and outboards will be cheaper. You have to be putting in a thousand hours plus to make it pay. I run a lot and I only put some 200-300 hrs a year on my mains.

  10. #10
    Charterboat Operator kodiakcombo's Avatar
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    Default yanmar alone

    The yanmar 6LPA 315hp is a high performance diesel, it is an awesome engine that is light and fires right up and just flat out screams, and thats what it is designed to do. The manual is plain and correct, you are not to idle it or even run it at low RPM, it is ment to be screaming! and when you have to run lower than full throttle you have to run it WFO for a given time, also after you cooled it down, you have to "race" the engine, meaning take it out of gear and blast the throttle several times before shutting down. I sold that yanmar with 2700hrs on it and it was going strong. The AD41 was running fine when I took it out 5700hrs, the D4 has 982hrs since Feb 2008.
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    Member Blue Thunder's Avatar
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    Talking

    I re powered my Bayliner 2859 with a Volvo D4260 DPH and love it. The old engine was a Cummins (I love the Dodge Cummins) that was a piece of junk with only 360 hrs. The Volvo was 250 lbs less, quieter, way more power & speed and the fuel consumption is about 4 gph less at the same speed.

  12. #12

    Default Kodiak,

    Do you have an idea what your boat weighs (full fuel, clients, gear)? Also, which outdrive from Volvo are you running with the D4? I think they have an assortment of drives to choose from.
    Thanks for your input & honesty about the Yanmar/Bravo combo as that setup is what my buddy is looking at (there's been a few popping up used on craigslist for Hawaii). He just can't afford a brand new re-power package as he a serious recreation, semi-commercial fisherman (no charters, fishes about 6 or more times a month) and his 25' boat is sitting in the driveway getting covered in cobwebs (he has a 19' boat that he uses regularly).
    I'm a fan of volvo diesels as I used to deckhand on a couple boats that had the ad41's with DP drives and I've seen those packages go 10k hours (with religious maintenance).
    Jim

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    Member Maast's Avatar
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    Default

    Theres a blurb in Febs Fish Alaska mag about FNM diesels, they seem to like them.

    He says he has two on a 30 Almar, 5.5 gals/hour at about 30 knots, the 250HP is $15k

    There's also an ad for an Alaskan dealer for them
    http://www.alaskan-adventures-unlimited.com/

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    Default Lugger Marine Diesel? Anyone run them?

    Anyone have any experience with the Lugger Marine Diesels. How do they hold up? I have heard a lot of commercial boats have pretty good luck with them.

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    Charterboat Operator kodiakcombo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Jim View Post
    Do you have an idea what your boat weighs (full fuel, clients, gear)? Also, which outdrive from Volvo are you running with the D4? I think they have an assortment of drives to choose from.
    Thanks for your input & honesty about the Yanmar/Bravo combo as that setup is what my buddy is looking at (there's been a few popping up used on craigslist for Hawaii). He just can't afford a brand new re-power package as he a serious recreation, semi-commercial fisherman (no charters, fishes about 6 or more times a month) and his 25' boat is sitting in the driveway getting covered in cobwebs (he has a 19' boat that he uses regularly).
    I'm a fan of volvo diesels as I used to deckhand on a couple boats that had the ad41's with DP drives and I've seen those packages go 10k hours (with religious maintenance).
    Jim
    I want to say DPH-A, what I did was ask the guys who have been takin care of my volvos at Kodiak Diesel what one I needed, they know I put 1200hrs a year on the boatand use it to carry 2-3 thousand pounds of cod 68 miles to Kodiak. New my boat used to weigh 4600#s light. Loaded for charter work I'd say 7000#s, loaded for commercial fishing 10000#s
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    Member captaindd's Avatar
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    Default

    The weight of your boat will determine how long the outdrives will last and the diesels that power them. I guy who is selling the FNM diesels runs a boat out of Valdez. His boat is fairly light and he is running BRAVO II outdrives. Last year he hit an 1 1/4 rope and took out the coupler on 1 of his engines. I picked up his passengers and he was able to due 21knots on 1 engine. I think the FNM engines will due a good job. I am currently run D-6's DPH-A drives 1.76 gears with G-5 props Estimate boat weight is 20000. My performance fully loaded top speed 36K cruise speed 30K fuel useage 1.47 miles per gallon. If you are running a light weight boat 11000 pounds or less go with Suzuki OutBoards 6 year warrenty. The diesel cost alot for maintence . Every 100 Hours
    5 1/2 gallons oil motor oil $70 2 oil filters $37, 1 fuel filter $20.20, 1 crankcase filter $80, 1 air cleaner $40
    3 1/2 quarts out drive oil $60.

  17. #17

    Default

    Kodiak, do you have fuel numbers?
    Captain, what kind of boat are you running?
    My buddy's boat sounds fairly similar to what Kodiak is utilizing. We did think about outboards but we'd have buy a outboard bracket and patch the transom shield hold. Plus we checked fuel gph and not too good for the style of fishing here. Mostly trolling at 5-8 knots. A diesel sips fuel at those speeds.
    A positive for outboards would be twin powerplants vs. single but since this boat is not a charter or hard core commercial, not too easy to justify & fund big expenditures, but just sitting in the driveway taking up space isn't great either!
    Thanks Jeff for all the replies, sorry for bugging you!
    You mentioned the character of the Yanmar, pretty much the opposite of what we do here, trolling for hours & hours with an occasional blast coming into the harbor, we don't run miles to the grounds as trolling starts right off shore.
    Jim
    PS----Jeff, are you running twins?

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    Member bhollis's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by akfishnut View Post
    Anyone have any experience with the Lugger Marine Diesels. How do they hold up? I have heard a lot of commercial boats have pretty good luck with them.
    A lot of high-end, price-is-no-object boats have Luggers, which I guess speaks well of them. I've talked to a few folks who own 40-50 ft Nordhavn's fitted with Luggers, and they seemed to really like them.

    One point is worth making though: the Luggers are very different engines from the Volvo Pentas such as the KAD43's and 44's and the newer D4's and D6's discussed elsewhere in this thread.

    The Lugger, and other such engines are slow-turning (low rpm) relatively low horsepower (at least for their size and weight) diesels. These are the kinds of diesels that tend to last forever, and are typically best suited to trawler (displacement) type boats.

    The Volvo Penta KAD's and D's, on the other hand, are smaller, lighter, higher rpm and higher performance engines. Volvo Penta wrings out every last bit of hp they can from these engines with superchargers and turbochargers. Consequently, they work a lot harder than their slow-turning brethren and typcially don't last as long, although with good maintenance they can still last a lot longer than a comparable gas engine. Given their higher rpm and hp/weight ratio, these engines are better suited to planing hulls, such as the SeaSport and Glaciercraft.

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    Charterboat Operator kodiakcombo's Avatar
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    Default rpm

    At 2450 I'm doing 18knts and burning 4.7-5.5 gal hr. WFO 9-11 gals hr doing 33knts
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    Default

    All this talk of boat weights, what load are you carrying , what rpm are you running and how many MPH are you getting ??? and none of you really know what you engine is doing work wise !! NOBODY has a pyrometer for the exhaust temperature, a pyro tells you how hard your engine is working and is in my opinion the most important gauge you can have on your dash(next to the oil pressure).
    Try running the outdrive exhaust out thru the transon and not through the drive and i know the engine runs easier, switch to WIX oil filters and save a few bucks, get rid of those tiny tubes on the crankcase breathers and put on a Racor Crankvent and no more buying expensive breather filters and one more thing get a K&N air filter buy it once and just clean it out once in a while.
    How do i know this, I'm only a dirtbag fish choking gillnetter, potbuilder, and have been commercial fishing all my life (never had a real job). My bowpicker has a volvo 41P in it with 5000hours on it & my main outdrive has over 10,000 hours on it. I watch my pyro whenever i have a load of fish aboard and no matter what i don't run the S**t out of my engine. I'm going to say 80% of most engine problem are directly connected to the red knob on the dashboard.
    Rant over thanks for reading

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