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Thread: Another True Subsistence hunt.....short and sweet

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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Default Another True Subsistence hunt.....short and sweet

    You all enjoyed the last one I just know you want another. This one was just an afternoon outing, hoping for quick results. The opportunity for multiple kills was fairly good so 2 guns were taken. Again, like hunts of old, equipment was specially selected for hunt conditions, weather, etc. Here's a pic of the hunt area:


    You can see the one scabbard on the snogo, and the GPS also. In the distance is the left overs of former mining activity. Mining has actually increased the habitat for my quarry of the day.
    Binoculars and a little brush busting, driving around the creek bottom, eventually produce the desired quarry. Some successful shooting and voila":


    3 ptarmigan. Unfortunately, this day I didn't pay attention to which way they flew and was unable to find them for some more tries.
    Ptarmigan are a unique catch. In most cases, the sale value of the legally saleable parts on a subsistence catch is less than or equal to, the value of the meat. Ptarmigan, however, while only producing enough meat for a one person meal (per bird) produce about 5 times that much food thru their sale. They are truly an ideal subsistence prey.
    These short hunts for ptarmigan can also produce other species at this time of year. Looking around with binoculars can produce fox or even a wolverine. On rare occaisions, hunters find wolves in our area.
    That's it. Just 3 ptarmigan. But it was a fun afternoon.
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

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    Default nice!

    Another cool hunting strory!

    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    You all enjoyed the last one I just know you want another. This one was just an afternoon outing, hoping for quick results. The opportunity for multiple kills was fairly good so 2 guns were taken. Again, like hunts of old, equipment was specially selected for hunt conditions, weather, etc. Here's a pic of the hunt area:


    You can see the one scabbard on the snogo, and the GPS also. In the distance is the left overs of former mining activity. Mining has actually increased the habitat for my quarry of the day.
    Binoculars and a little brush busting, driving around the creek bottom, eventually produce the desired quarry. Some successful shooting and voila":


    3 ptarmigan. Unfortunately, this day I didn't pay attention to which way they flew and was unable to find them for some more tries.
    Ptarmigan are a unique catch. In most cases, the sale value of the legally saleable parts on a subsistence catch is less than or equal to, the value of the meat. Ptarmigan, however, while only producing enough meat for a one person meal (per bird) produce about 5 times that much food thru their sale. They are truly an ideal subsistence prey.
    These short hunts for ptarmigan can also produce other species at this time of year. Looking around with binoculars can produce fox or even a wolverine. On rare occaisions, hunters find wolves in our area.
    That's it. Just 3 ptarmigan. But it was a fun afternoon.

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    Good story.
    These old dredge gravle piles are great attractors of many ptarmigan. I snare them in the rockpiles, with cut willows for bait laced with strings..

    How much do you sell Ptarmigan for?
    Do you, yourself, utilize the meat and parts, and use the parts ina way that they are significantly alterd before you sell them?

    I eat the bird, rather two or three per sitting, and seeing how the feathers are not from a migratory waterfowl or protected bird, the feathers often end up on artwork, and that gets sold. The black tipped white feathers from the tail being especcially usefull.

    Thanks for the cool post.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    I have to ask - What is the difference between this and any other hunt? Why is this "true subsistence"? Am I missing something here?

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    You all enjoyed the last one I just know you want another. This one was just an afternoon outing, hoping for quick results. The opportunity for multiple kills was fairly good so 2 guns were taken. Again, like hunts of old, equipment was specially selected for hunt conditions, weather, etc. Here's a pic of the hunt area:


    You can see the one scabbard on the snogo, and the GPS also. In the distance is the left overs of former mining activity. Mining has actually increased the habitat for my quarry of the day.
    Binoculars and a little brush busting, driving around the creek bottom, eventually produce the desired quarry. Some successful shooting and voila":


    3 ptarmigan. Unfortunately, this day I didn't pay attention to which way they flew and was unable to find them for some more tries.
    Ptarmigan are a unique catch. In most cases, the sale value of the legally saleable parts on a subsistence catch is less than or equal to, the value of the meat. Ptarmigan, however, while only producing enough meat for a one person meal (per bird) produce about 5 times that much food thru their sale. They are truly an ideal subsistence prey.
    These short hunts for ptarmigan can also produce other species at this time of year. Looking around with binoculars can produce fox or even a wolverine. On rare occaisions, hunters find wolves in our area.
    That's it. Just 3 ptarmigan. But it was a fun afternoon.
    Was that on private, state or federal lands? Always good to see how one can make ends meet, living in the "bush" with little more than what's readily available.
    SP
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    Quote Originally Posted by rambling raven View Post
    I have to ask - What is the difference between this and any other hunt? Why is this "true subsistence"? Am I missing something here?
    If your snowmachine is 700cc and under I think its "subsistance".

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    Quote Originally Posted by rambling raven View Post
    Am I missing something here?
    You're missing the thinly veiled taunting, jabbing and eye gouging directed at specific members of this forum. Search for some of the old threads about selling black bear parts.

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    Stranger, not gonna give exact prices, but the market I sell on will only allow so much. Others sell them as well. The hunter only has to salvage the breast meat. The rest can be tossed, given, used for art, or sold. Since the condition of the bird is important to the price, I only remove breast meat and freeze.
    Raven, you have seen thru the mist of my post. No difference between what I do and what any other hunter does, more or less. The taunt, as Chisana puts it, is directed at those who wish to categorize hunting into moronic categories like "true" subsistence. But I bet you guys enjoy the pics anyway.
    Chisana, come on..........jabbing? Eye gouging?
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

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    Martentrapper: of course the thin veil of sarcasm was noted in your post. Given that I have used the term "true subsistance" a time or two I can't help but feel that the jab was at least thrust in my general direction. I am not sure if we are on the same page or not. I still stand fast on my feeling that there is a huge difference between the anchorage, Valley, FBX. Copper Center or any other local on the road system and those that live truly remote and actually have to kill something in order too eat. I eat what I kill and in that order do "subsist" on it. I don't however believe that most of the Tier II winners are "true subsistance" hunters with any more right to the resource than anyone else. Ultimately I diferentiate soley because the state and feds do thus forcing it upon me. I would consider those that live as Stranger does to be an actual subsitance user within the intent of the law, the irony is that neither of you hunt unit 23 under any tier II subsitance guidlines that I am aware of. Thus I would consider you a "true subsistance" user where as the state would consider you sport hunters. Funny how that works isn't it?
    Strip the tier II system out of the equation and I would be fast to adopt the ideology that those of us who hunt for food are all equal subsistance users. Sadly I doubt that I will see that in my lifetime, nor are my kids ever likely to have the opportunity to harvest a nelchina herd bou as I did when I was a boy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    Raven, you have seen thru the mist of my post. No difference between what I do and what any other hunter does, more or less. The taunt, as Chisana puts it, is directed at those who wish to categorize hunting into moronic categories like "true" subsistence. But I bet you guys enjoy the pics anyway.
    Chisana, come on..........jabbing? Eye gouging?
    Thanks for the clarification - I thought I must be missing something, getting a little slow I guess - I do like the pictures - Brings back a lot of memories. I lived in that country for a few years way back when - The snow machines weren't quite as nice but the ptarmigan hunting was always good.


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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    An old Cat? Shame on you Raven! Hahaha.
    Don't see large herds of deer like that much anymore.
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

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    Default Such a shame...

    ...that you can't just post pics and stories of your hunts, Mike, without all the taunting and jabbing. Seems like this should be relegated to the small game hunting forum anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by martentrapper View Post
    Chisana, come on..........jabbing? Eye gouging?
    Maybe a light elbow to the ribs perhaps!?

  14. #14

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    I like the taunting and jabbing. It is a good wake up call for some that like to sleep a lot. It is a very good reminder to Alaskan's that we are a divided society. To stick our heads in the snow and pretend we are not, is foolish. Some of the hunters of this great land need to share the fact with their children, that they are not the "privelged". It is a very good lesson for them to learn at an early age. Not wait until they are grownup and trying to figure it out on their own. That way they won't grow up with unrealistic expectations. They will know right off, where they fit in and where they do not.

    The demands on our resources are great and increasing each day. The federal and state government beauracrats have long ago decided that their way of divvying up the resources among the citizens, would be by dividing them into socio-economic groups. Nothing in the rule book speaks to Need, Desire, Want, Hope or any other emotional based qualifiers.
    None of us were invited to the game. We all asked to play. They wrote the rules.
    I like to play the game, and do it with some realistic perspective, and understanding that there are some more and some less privelged than I.
    Hunter parents need to be able to explain "Why" this is, when having discussions with their young and how important it is to support the system.
    SP
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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Well Mark, bushrat, considering your first introduction to this forum, I would say your criticism in this case is somewhat hypocritical. Along with the backcountry hunters flyer at the bottom of every one of your posts, I'd say your presence here is very similiar to mine.
    Expressing an opinion is part of what is allowed in this forum. IMO opinion, it is such a shame you disagree with me exercising that priviledge.
    However, I will admit the obvious...........you have 4 squares to my 2. Does that make you more correct than me?
    Let's hope that this post is recognized as an opinion also, and not pulled to protect the priviledged few!
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  16. #16

    Default Marten

    Trapper,
    Be carefull, you know he was the forum member of the year... They might make him a moderator and then you'll be screwed.

  17. #17
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default Give it a rest, Mike

    Mike,

    My criticism was based on the fact that you feel it is necessary even when posting a hunt story and pics to jab and taunt. Like you said at tail end of your other thread on "true subsistence," you posted to bring out the divisiveness among us.

    And when the crapola hit the fan I weighed in on your behalf and told folks not to make it personal.

    Here's my honest take: I really enjoy the hunt stories and pics most people post here. You are the only one who really posts hunt stories and pics in ways that are intended to stir the proverbial pot. So instead of the thread remaining civil and everyone enjoying it it tends to turn into something different. You toss out the bait, as you're doing now, and people respond. And I sense you are sitting there behind your screen just enjoying when that happens.

    Know this Mike. I think you are among the most informed hunters on this entire forum on state and federal regs and the whole process of public participation in game mgmt. I applaud your involvement in the state and fed process. I respect your knowledge and I respect you.

    I don't care for the way you tend to stir the pot though on this forum cuz I don't think it is necessary. Wanna debate subsistence? Great...let's start yet another thread on it in the mgmt forum. Starting yet another thread here titled "true subsistence" is imo kinda childish. Glad you got some ptarmigan though. We eat the entire bird here.

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    Im catching onto the humor here, Martentrapper.
    Cynaical is fine, and now its make the posts you make a bit more understandable. Inflections and inuendo is hard to pick up from internet ink.

    I think Unit22 has a bit differing regs than my unit 23.
    We have to significantly alter our gatherings, before they can be sold, made into a handycraft or customary/tradtional use stuff. Trade is OK, and some stuff can go directly to a buyer, but Im needing to read more.
    For example, they will chop the Muskox and sheep horns if they are to be removed from our GM unit., and I may be wrong, but the bear hides taken under subsistance regs get their claws chopped .
    Never have left, so I have yet to chop anything.
    Feathers and antlers have to be removed from the animal too.
    A Bear taken under subsistance regs must have the meat salvaged, and we can toss the skin, though I dont.

    From what I gather, you stuff these birds for display?

    Either way, if your eating the meat and salvaging the remains to be making gas $$, your subsisting, "Truly" , like it or not. ~LOL!!!~




    Nice picture, R Raven. Looks like our hillside this morning. I can see them from here with my Stieners.
    If you can't Kill it with a 30-06, you should Hide.

    "Dam it all", The Beaver told me.....

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    come on kids...quit throwing dirt clods at the houses.....
    Www.blackriverhunting.com
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    reminds me of the movie, "Grumpy old men"...

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