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Thread: Carry in Sullivan

  1. #1

    Default Carry in Sullivan

    Maybe a dumb question, but here goes. A few years back when I had my carry permit, I was going into the Sullivan for one of the shows there (maybe the Sportsman Show). On the door they had a sign with a gun that basically said it was illegal to carry a firearm in the building and then sighted a law number. I never looked it up, but it still makes me wonder. When taking my class I remember them saying bars, federal buildings, schools, secured airport areas, etc. Was it legal to carry with a permit into the Sullivan?
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfoot View Post
    Maybe a dumb question, but here goes. A few years back when I had my carry permit, I was going into the Sullivan for one of the shows there (maybe the Sportsman Show). On the door they had a sign with a gun that basically said it was illegal to carry a firearm in the building and then sighted a law number. I never looked it up, but it still makes me wonder. When taking my class I remember them saying bars, federal buildings, schools, secured airport areas, etc. Was it legal to carry with a permit into the Sullivan?

    NO....The same sign was on the City Hall Building, Library Building, "ALL" City buildings...... I was in the room of the "EGAN" Center, when the 30/06 got accidental discharge and three people got hit.......

  3. #3
    Member BigHinER's Avatar
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    As I understand it and please correct me if I'm wrong, if there is a sign stating No Concealed weapons whether it's mom and pops store or a city building then you are NOT allowed to carry there. Just as you are required to inform the homeowner of your weapon if you are entering their home.
    Originally Posted by BIGBOB
    Estimate of time of death appears to be same day he died.

  4. #4

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    When I took my class the law enforcement officer there said that it was not settled whether it was legal or not. It had never been settled in a court case, but he suggested you don't chance it. I believe the law only gives the protection to homeowners, not owners of a public access business, but again it had never been decided in court.
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

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    Default Settled? Nothing is ever settled until the SCOTUS says so

    Quote Originally Posted by blackfoot View Post
    When I took my class the law enforcement officer there said that it was not settled whether it was legal or not. It had never been settled in a court case, but he suggested you don't chance it. I believe the law only gives the protection to homeowners, not owners of a public access business, but again it had never been decided in court.
    I believe the question is settled as far as "Black Letter Law" is concerned (the law passed by the legislature and signed by the chief executive of whatever jusrisdiction is in authority, in this case, the State of Alaska, by preemptive law). But, if someone should get cited for violation of the black letter law, an appeals court can reverse the law. If it gets that far, SCOTUS (Supreme Court of the United States) may make a ruling (as is has in the recent Heller decision).

    So, if you carry in a public place posted as a non-carry location, you would get cited or arrested, convicted, then appeal (possibly with the help of the ACLUm or the NRA's ILA - or both, now ain't THAT a picture!). If the law is determined to be unconstitutional, your conviction would be overturned. Then the original prosecutor might appeal to the next higher court. If they win, your conviction is reinstated, then you appeal again. It can go back and forth like that, sometimes backing up through referrals to lower court for re-trial. Eventually, after a number of years and lots of dollars, SCOTUS may rule, and, absent a future reversal (rare, but watch for a Roe vs Wade reversal for an example of what can happen), the matter is settled.

    It takes bravery to assert your rights, and conviction and, yes, money. That's why we fight unfair laws BEFORE they are passed. Support the NRA and GOA (National Rifle Association and Gun owners of America and any other organizations you can support)

    See Alaska Statutes 11.61.190 and Alaska Statutes 18.65.700-- 18.65.790

    Lost Sheep.

  6. #6
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    Thumbs up Very well explained Lost Sheep!

    I could not have said it better . . . I know because I tried to before. Setting case law is not a game for the ill funded!
    Andy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Sheep View Post
    I believe the question is settled as far as "Black Letter Law" is concerned (the law passed by the legislature and signed by the chief executive of whatever jusrisdiction is in authority, in this case, the State of Alaska, by preemptive law). But, if someone should get cited for violation of the black letter law, an appeals court can reverse the law. If it gets that far, SCOTUS (Supreme Court of the United States) may make a ruling (as is has in the recent Heller decision).

    So, if you carry in a public place posted as a non-carry location, you would get cited or arrested, convicted, then appeal (possibly with the help of the ACLUm or the NRA's ILA - or both, now ain't THAT a picture!). If the law is determined to be unconstitutional, your conviction would be overturned. Then the original prosecutor might appeal to the next higher court. If they win, your conviction is reinstated, then you appeal again. It can go back and forth like that, sometimes backing up through referrals to lower court for re-trial. Eventually, after a number of years and lots of dollars, SCOTUS may rule, and, absent a future reversal (rare, but watch for a Roe vs Wade reversal for an example of what can happen), the matter is settled.

    It takes bravery to assert your rights, and conviction and, yes, money. That's why we fight unfair laws BEFORE they are passed. Support the NRA and GOA (National Rifle Association and Gun owners of America and any other organizations you can support)

    See Alaska Statutes 11.61.190 and Alaska Statutes 18.65.700-- 18.65.790

    Lost Sheep.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfoot View Post
    Maybe a dumb question, but here goes. A few years back when I had my carry permit, I was going into the Sullivan for one of the shows there (maybe the Sportsman Show). On the door they had a sign with a gun that basically said it was illegal to carry a firearm in the building and then sighted a law number. I never looked it up, but it still makes me wonder. When taking my class I remember them saying bars, federal buildings, schools, secured airport areas, etc. Was it legal to carry with a permit into the Sullivan?
    Follow this post, covers the same topie, and it will take you to State of Alaska WEB site:

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ad.php?t=46152


    Regards,

  8. #8
    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    When I took my CC class the section of the law they reviewed stated that any business that did not want to allow CC had to post a sign on all entrances open to the public. Sears Mall and the Sully are the only places I have come across in ANC with such signs.

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    A fellow recently was caught carrying in the Sully and was asked by staff to leave. if one is spotted at the door, entrance will be denied.

  10. #10
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    Default CCW permit revoked for woman carrying openly.

    Every gun owner (especialy those who carry outside their home) should keep track of thses two threads (they are largely duplicate of one another, so one may get locked soon)

    http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum...?TOPIC_ID=6767
    http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum...?TOPIC_ID=6764

    or if the links don't work, copy/paste these into your browser

    concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6767
    concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6764

    The suit for recompense should be of particular interest to officials who want to overstep their bounds squashing gun owners' rights and anyone who ever wants to assert any civil right (right to carry, right to vote, anything)

    Lost Sheep

    p.s. I have confidence this is not just a story because of the extensive documentation found on the thread. I am skeptical of anything I hear of that does not name names, locations and dates. Sept 11 2008, Lebanon, Pennsylvania, Lancaster County Sherrif Michael DeLeo. Associated Press story 9/24/08, PDF Scan of the Letter of Revocation 9/17/08, multiple stories in the Lebanon Daily News by John Latimer, a staff writer.
    Last edited by Lost Sheep; 02-04-2009 at 18:57. Reason: add citations for evidence

  11. #11
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    Municipal preemption signed in 2005 rendered all local laws that are stronger than state laws moot. A private entity or business cannot create laws, only our elected represenatives can. A posted sign can be ignored but you may be asked to leave. If you are asked and you don't leave, you risk a trespass charge. I have read all the firearm laws for Alaska and can find none that state it is illegal to enter a posted location. This would only be an issue if you were openly carrying or had to use it in a self-defense situation because if it was properly concealed, there would be no way for anyone to know about it in the first place.

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer but the laws to me appear abundantly clear.

    Bottom line is to do your own research or consult an attorney before excepting advice from the following.

    Never accept legal advice from a police officer.
    Never accept legal advice from a gun shop employee.
    Never accept legal advice from a internet poster.

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    Why would you take advice from a lawyer then? Because if one interprets the law one way another could interpret it another. The only lawyer I would take advice from would be the prosecuting attorney for the area you have the question in.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by cool_husker View Post
    Why would you take advice from a lawyer then? Because if one interprets the law one way another could interpret it another. The only lawyer I would take advice from would be the prosecuting attorney for the area you have the question in.
    Exactly! The only attorney to ask would be the one who would be trying to put you in jail for the offense.
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    I carry concealed all the time at places like the Sullivan arena, State Fair, various malls. The explicit law stating that places could post signs restricting carrying was repealed years ago.
    Really the only places that you can't carry are places prohibited by Federal law such as courts, Federal offices, Military bases, schools. I believe that Knowles put in a rule restricting carrying at battered women shelters.
    You can also carry in a restaurant that serves alcohol (but not bars) as long as you don't drink . I was glad when that got approved since virtually all restaurants serve alcohol.
    I was one of the first CHP instructors and taught my first class several months before the law took effect. I stopped giving classes 5 years ago but still keep up on any changes. The law is better than what it was years ago but it is a bit more confusing figuring out where you can carry.

    DVC,
    Northwest Passage

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    I carry concealed all the time at places like the Sullivan arena
    What you do is your business but if you are caught you will be asked to leave. if you refuse to leave I am sure there will be police intervention

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