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Thread: subsistence hunting

  1. #1
    Member gusuk1's Avatar
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    Default subsistence hunting

    Sorry but with the other post just wanted to say my peace/views on subsistance hunting in Alaska,First off this is in my opinion and that subsistence is for Alaskan residents to harvest food/meat to feed themselves and family.as for myself to see someone put a price tag on something that many of us depend on instead of asking for a QUEST card because we can't afford the prices of beef in the bush.granted i make some cash flow but i pay 6.50 a gall for gas/diesel and that does not include getting it here.i provide my own power at 10 gall a day which i am working on allterntive ,kinda hard to get power source to keep two freezers going that are full of meat/fish/berries.anyway just kind of got in the pe-o mode to see someone seeking to make a profit off a subsistance hunt.in more ways then one.might be time to redefine -SUBSISTENCE-hunting

  2. #2
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    I don't see the profit,just some money to live on and pay expenses

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    Member dkwarthog's Avatar
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    Default 10 Gal per day?

    Gusuk, look into a 2000 watt honda gnerator. We run ours 5-6 hours a day and it keeps the freezer near or below zero constantly this time of year. We burn 1/2 or 3/4 gallon of gas (or less) a day. Cant justify an alternative source with this generator being so efficient.

    On the subsistance issue, ummmm......I think I'll leave that one alone!

  4. #4
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    At the risk of getting drawn into a controversial topic...

    It seems to me that selling inedible parts of an animal in order to have mney to buy fuel, etc. is in keeping with the idea of subsistence. A person doesn't live off of food alone. We need clothes, shelter, etc. In our society, these things generally take income of some sort. If that income can be supplemented by selling a part of an animal that isn't edible, I fail to see how that's not subsisting off that animal. If anything, it's making more use of the animal that was taken. Why use just the meat, if the animal can provide for your family to an even larger degree?

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    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Chris,

    Honestly, I can't tell what your position is from your initial post. It was kind of confusing.

    I think perhaps that "making a profit" is being used in a negative way that can over-generalize. For years I never knew we could sell moose antlers, left most of them in the field until I found out I could legally sell them if they were removed from skull. Carvers buy them mostly, and pay by the pound. Me selling antlers doesn't change at all how I hunt, the type of bulls I take; I'm in it for the food as you know. For us and the dogs. That's why it all comes back with me most times and all that's left is some blood on the ground.

    So we will have these comparisons; when is it okay to sell a cape or antlers and why? Is it okay for me to do it but not others? I've been living off grid for going on thirty years now, so I know what that is all about too living remote.

    I think that utilizing as much as you can from an animal you have killed is a good thing. There are certain aspects of selling animal parts I do not want to see because of fears it could lead to poaching or harm a certain game animal population. You can't sell antlers attached to the skull because of those same fears. We can't sell bear galls legally here...same thing, same fears (though they do it elsewhere like in Maine and Nova Scotia with black bears).

    I think, Chris, that there is some hypocrisy in some of what you are saying, being as how you are a guide who books, sells, and guides hunts, likely to some non-resident hunters looking for a trophy to hang on their wall rather than meat for their freezer. I mean this with all due respect so don't take it the wrong way. Many are gonna ask you how that is different than what you are critcizing. I know you utilize all the meat, likely share some too...just pointing out that guiding could be seen as selling antlers in a way. And that certainly you are looking to make a profit in your guiding endeavors.

    Just some thoughts to ponder.
    Best,

  6. #6
    Member mod elan's Avatar
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    What about an in ground cooler? Doesn't anyone use those anymore? I'm also not sure why it takes 10 gallons a day for power. Why not unplug the freezers in cold temps? Sounds like there are some good ways to save money and resources here.

    I do believe MT was trying to "make light" of the subsistence thing. Do you think he should barter the hide and things for gas and supplies rather than taking money? In my opinion the laws are set up the way they are in order to help those folks in remote areas.

  7. #7
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    Default Mark is SPOT ON...

    as ususal, Big Game guides are the #1 opponent to subsistence, becuase the subsistence harvest cuts into thier BOTTOM LINE! Big game guiding is such a big business in the L48 that people are FENCING property to release trophy animals, just for some lazy city dwelling greenhorn can say they "bagged a trophy". & not only that Land leasing is all the rage in the L48 & luckily, Alaska's land is "locked" up mostly by the feds, otherwise, it'd be the same type of circus that's ruining it for others in the L48...

    Pretty good to see that such staunch opponents of subsistence within the state legislature were nearly all convicted of crimes...

  8. #8
    Member bushrat's Avatar
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    Default Please don't misread my post

    Marv (goalie),

    Generalizing about a whole group and painting them all with same broad brush often doesn't hold water. I don't want folks here to think that I am bashing guides or guiding; I'm not. Or implying all guides had certain views on subsistence; I wasn't.

  9. #9
    Member BRWNBR's Avatar
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    I'm a guide, i've lived in alaska for almost 30 years, i'm almost 31 years old. This is all i've known. i grew up boomin' caribou in the nelchina herd with an over the counter tag. Lived in a village for high school and put moose on the ground for the freezer. Never did get to go to a fish camp...mom don't care for old salmon to much after living on the kenai river as a kid...lol
    I think subsitance...whatever that means....is wonderfull, necessary and a staple. People who live in certian areas should be entitled to first crack at natures grocery store....its all they've got in some situations. Rather than tossin' a cape or antler that you don't normally have use for, selling it is a great way to help with the needed funds that you can't get from meat. Fuel oil, gas, milk, PILOT BREAD, cup-o-soup (lol) takes money to buy. Selling legal animals parts is great, it gives you some coin and someone else a chance to have something they'd never have gotten. That animals get to be enjoyed by more people in more ways that it would have had that antler came out in a porkypine terd. At the same time you get the meat that you needed. So needs are being fulfilled in 3 different ways. Rather than just one. Its good use of a resource, not wastefull, theres no profit i don't think, i think there'd be a better word for it. Living in the bush there is no such thing as "extra money" not that i recall anyway.

    In a way i feel that the delivery in the thread that spawned this one is more of what started this than true feelings towards what MT did with his ox. what he did in my mind was fine, how he told us what he did....well thats open to interpitation due to the lack of tone in these little square letters under my fingertips.

    I've respect you chris and value your opinion. Maybe a step back and cool down, then reaproach might help to smooth the water before you jump in so to speak. What we understand and feed off in here is all in the delivery and that sets the mood, like it did on this one.

    Besides your a guide so we all know you hate subsistance..specailly living out in the bush like you do...hater...lol
    Www.blackriverhunting.com
    Master guide 212

  10. #10
    Member gusuk1's Avatar
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    Default Explaination/Apology

    as usual i need to explain myself and apologize,bushrat and brwnbr you guy;s always have words of wise.so here goes,chris needs to see the other side of subsistence hunting other then just meat for the family,as for the catch 22,i do one moose hunt a yr and all meat goes to the wife's family,times are tough for all here in the bush and i have no right to say what is right for an Alaskan to do what he wants to with his harvested animals.MT was good for me to talk to you and best of to ya.

  11. #11
    Member dieNqvrs's Avatar
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    I believe there is a line crossed with subsistence when it costs more to get you animal than is reasonable necessary. Hunting sheep with a super cub, Deer hunting out of crabber, putting out a gill net with your Bayliner. All of these are unreasonable to the value you get out of it considering the costs associated with getting it. Once you can justify it in your own mind then you really defeat the purpose of "True Subsistence". When you are doing it this way it is now just an excuse.

  12. #12
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    Default I don't see any Bayliners...

    setting gill nets, I see everyone with old Yukon Raiders (largest one is a 22' owned by some business owner)...& everyone here have purchased a four stroke Yamaha's (largest one is again, a 150hp on that same 22') through a purchase plan via the local Native corp (not the regional but the subregional)

    The newest boats here are bought from Emmo, & only two exsist...one was bought by bro in law, who worked 7 days striaght for 4 months working on sewar installation...the other one bought by an elder of the community...

    other than that, many of the boats I see are very old lunds, & other types, no bayliners here...with old two strokes, or four strokes...

    & I sure the heck don't see anyone, except the St. Troopers, in a Supercub...

    & Mark, I was just agreeing with you & expounding on your idea...I apologize...

  13. #13
    Member HuntKodiak's Avatar
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    Thank you all for a very thoughtful, insightful, and civil discussion! I thoroughly enjoyed reading your points and counter-points, and it's this kind of discussion that regularly brings me here. Having never lived in the bush (but dreamt about it), I love learning from your shared experiences and opinions.

    I hope the rest of your winter goes smoothly.

    Mike

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