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Thread: 2 Juneau Guides charged

  1. #1

    Default 2 Juneau Guides charged

    Read an article in the Newsminer on this. One used to contribute quite a bit on this site. I even seen their booth at SCI in Reno. Never seems like the sentences are harsh enough. Should lose guiding license for life.

  2. #2

    Default Details?

    How about some details? A link? A summation?

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    Member TWB's Avatar
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    We do not go to the green woods and crystal waters to rough it, we go to smooth it. We get it rough enough at home; in towns and cities; in shops, offices, stores, banks anywhere that we may be placed

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    I thought the cops where the only ones getting these hard sentences! What a bunch of ****!!!!!

    Troy
    Last edited by Brian M; 01-16-2009 at 17:34. Reason: language

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    Member Chisana's Avatar
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    Default

    Those guys were charged a while back. Took quite some time for sentencing. The dude had a good website with some nice write ups and pics from TMA, DCUA and Wrangell Mts. sheep hunts they had done.

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    Default

    So why is it a sad day? They violated the law, pled quilty, probably to a lesser crime and are being punished. The sentences seem to fit the crimes. Guides should be held to a high standard, after all, at one time they also were ones that enforced the game laws.

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    Member H_I_L_L_B_I_L_L_Y's Avatar
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    Thumbs down sentencing

    So these clowns can still hunt? The article said they cant hunt or guide commercially while on probation. So as i read it they can still hunt. What a bunch of crap. they should be band from guiding for life!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Hillbilly

  9. #9

    Default Very sad

    Professional guides that willfully and knowingly violate hunting and fishing laws should be punished to the full extent allowed for the crime and have their guiding licenses revoked indefinitely. In other words...you blew your chance and will never again get a hunting license for Alaska. Anything beyond that is simply a game of cat and mouse between them and regulation enforcement. I donít necessarily ALWAYS agree with the regulations set forth as many of us Iím sure may not but based on the article written it seems pretty apparent they knew what was going on and was hoping not to get caught.

    This activity canít be tolerated and I can't imagine anyone here will honestly disagree? There should be a ZERO ď0Ē tolerance policy for this type of behavior.

    -Tim
    Alaska Outdoors Television ~ Outdoor Channel

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    Default For many reasons

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill S. View Post
    So why is it a sad day? They violated the law, pled quilty, probably to a lesser crime and are being punished. The sentences seem to fit the crimes. Guides should be held to a high standard, after all, at one time they also were ones that enforced the game laws.
    We all can be sad. These are licensed professionals, who know the law or they wouldn't be licensed. This was one violation where they actually got caught; doesn't mean it was the only time. Maybe this was the first time, I can't judge that. However, the did violate a species limit according to the newsminer article; that is equivalent to poaching. Outside of subsistence or survival intentions, poaching has never created a "good" day for anyone in the hunting industry.

    The punishment sets a very bad example. It sets the risk-reward ration very low. Seems to set precedent that will not prevent this type of activity due to the lack of severity in sentencing. Small fine and get your license back in two years?? Other than shame, that sentence has done nothing to deter this activity by others!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wv_2008 View Post


    We all can be sad. These are licensed professionals, who know the law or they wouldn't be licensed. This was one violation where they actually got caught; doesn't mean it was the only time. Maybe this was the first time, I can't judge that. However, the did violate a species limit according to the newsminer article; that is equivalent to poaching. Outside of subsistence or survival intentions, poaching has never created a "good" day for anyone in the hunting industry.

    The punishment sets a very bad example. It sets the risk-reward ration very low. Seems to set precedent that will not prevent this type of activity due to the lack of severity in sentencing. Small fine and get your license back in two years?? Other than shame, that sentence has done nothing to deter this activity by others!
    Clarification: I think in your first statement your reference to "sad" seemed like you were sad they got punished IMO. Your second post clears up that misconception.

    KRS

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    Quote Originally Posted by tdelarm View Post
    Professional guides that willfully and knowingly violate hunting and fishing laws should be punished to the full extent allowed for the crime and have their guiding licenses revoked indefinitely. In other words...you blew your chance and will never again get a hunting license for Alaska. Anything beyond that is simply a game of cat and mouse between them and regulation enforcement. I donít necessarily ALWAYS agree with the regulations set forth as many of us Iím sure may not but based on the article written it seems pretty apparent they knew what was going on and was hoping not to get caught.

    This activity canít be tolerated and I can't imagine anyone here will honestly disagree? There should be a ZERO ď0Ē tolerance policy for this type of behavior.

    -Tim
    I agree 100% This wasn't a grey area or misinterpretation of the rules.

  13. #13

    Default Greed

    This wasn't a misinterpretation of the regs. or a case of "I thought I was outside boundry line" it was GREED; PLAIN and SIMPLE. They knew if they didn't get caught they got paid. I'm sure they did get paid by some insuspecting hunter, who unknowingly violated the law as well.
    Seems to me the fines barely would have covered the guide fees, thus the guides in question just paid the fine with stolen money. To me the convicted parties should be on a chain gang picking up trash on the side of the road in Arizona not sitting at home watching Mighty Mouse with the kids.
    As this was a willfully conducted act against the hunters of this state, they should never have the ability to repeat these actions again.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    Default

    thought i saw a yr or two ago where one of them was charged guiding outside the hunting area around katzehin river for goats????? anyone else hear about this also??? loss of privlages for 2 years, doesn't seem like much

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    Default Federal Court

    So this was federal charges (Lacey act)? Feds like to deal with crimes that they consider big and treat what they consider lesser crimes with a slap on the wrist. Anytime you deal with federal charges that don't have mandatory min. sentences you can end up with this stuff. I do not see why if these are federal charges that the state does not charge them as well and take there licenses for even longer. I know I saw that happen a lot in the lower 48 when the state felt the feds dropped the ball they would step in and charge them with a state crime as well. Or the state should pass a law that bans guides from guiding for life with a violation of this nature and then if they are charged in federal court they can also be charged with that crime b/c Federal Court has the ability to adopt state law for the purpose of charging someone with a crime.

  16. #16
    Member muskeg's Avatar
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    Default mean high tide line

    I don't believe any State Laws were broken. Maybe one that says you cannot break Fed Law type thing.

    They were playing the 'mean high tide' game. It's our Fed permits that limit the number of hunts not State. Fed permit restrictions just apply to the Fed lands (above mean high tide). There are several Guides still working that action.

    This type of action has brought on the 'upland contiguous acres permission' clause in the newest Guide Law ... which is still not worded right (yet) and the Fed is not playing with the State on this issue.

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    wv_2008, I too misread your first post and thought you were making a statement that it was sad they got caught and punished, not that the punishment wasn't enough. My mistake and I agree with you. My apologizes.

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    Default No offense taken

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill S. View Post
    wv_2008, I too misread your first post and thought you were making a statement that it was sad they got caught and punished, not that the punishment wasn't enough. My mistake and I agree with you. My apologizes.
    I should have taken the time to further explain.

  19. #19

    Default Apples to Oranges....

    I'm not sure...of the details to this crime. But what appears is that they were charged with a federal crime. The fed does not administratively regulate state hunting/fishing licenses. The state of Alaska does.

    There may be a reciprocity agreement in place between the fed and the state dept of Fish & Game, wherein the fed conviction is used as a basis for administrative sanction or removal of the state hunting license and/or guiding license privilege. But the state law is a sovereign entity and the fed law is a separate sovereign entity. The two entities can possibly work in conjunction with each other but they do not automatically do so.

    I read a fair amount of confusion in the below posts regarding why the conviction and subsequent sentencing in Fed court has not resulted in the removal of guide license privilege. It would be interesting to hear a comment from the DFG as to whether there is a Memorandum of Understanding/agreement in place between the US Fish and Wildlife/Fed Court System and the Alaska DFG to track convictions and forward same on down to the lower entity (state) for administrative sanctions based upon the fed conviction. If there is not such an agreement there should be.

  20. #20
    Member muskeg's Avatar
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    Default I'll take a stab at this ... it is a complicated issue.

    Some years ago after a well organized plan of action by all user groups the Fed's regulated the Brown Bear action in Unit #4. They capped the number of Brown Bear hunts each Guide can take on the uplands which is controlled by USFS Use Permit. One hunt = one hunter. the cap figures were assigned to each Guide based on past use. They took the activity of 2 random past years added together and then divided by 2.

    Looks like the Hooten's got 1 hunt as per their permit. This only pertains to Fed Lands. Below mean high tide is State of Alaska Lands.

    The State had no power to limit the number of hunters a Guide can hunt (or Bear killed) on State Lands.

    So in other words if you do not cross the mean high tide boundary you are not on Fed lands and are hunting state lands you can take as many hunters as you want.

    Now if that Bear that you shot on the beach went upland (above the mean high tide) and died and you went on USFS lands to retrieve it that would count as a USFS hunt.

    The Hooten's must have crossed the USFS land boundary to either retrieve shot Bears or actually stalked (maybe not even killed) mare than thier 1 Bear Fed quota. this would be a violation of their USFS Use Permit. The Bear would then become illeagle Bear and when said bear left the State even the hunter as well as the Hooten's would be in violation of the Lacy Act.

    I have cut and pasted some of the State Guide Law that pertains to violating Fed Law. Once convicted of the Fed Law the State CAN now impose disciplinary sanction.

    This happened before the new Guide Law and the formation of the Big Game Commercial Services Board. The new Guide Law now says you must have "documentation from the landowner or land manager that the applicant has the authorization to provide big game hunting services on at least 5,000 contiguous acres of the uplands in the guide use area" to be able to hunt that Guide Use Area.

    There are some Guides here in SE that are still working that grey area (below mean high tide) by having 5000 acre permission on Native Lands and then hunting the State Lands (beach) below USFS Lands with out a USFS Use Permit.

    Isn't dual management (Fed and State) of our huning and fishing fun ......

    The Feds are not working with the State on this issue as far as requiring Transporters to have upland USFS authorization, that is required under the new Guide Law. And it is tuning into another can of WORMS.

    **********************
    Sec. 08.54.710. DISCIPLINE OF GUIDES AND TRANSPORTERS. (a) The board may impose a disciplinary
    sanction in a timely manner under (c) of this section if the board finds that a licensee
    (1) is convicted of a violation of any state or federal statute or regulation relating to hunting or to provision of
    big game hunting services or transportation services;
    *********************
    (c) The board may impose the following disciplinary sanctions, singly or in combination:
    (1) permanently revoke a license;
    (2) suspend a license for a specified period;
    (3) censure or reprimand a licensee;
    (4) impose limitations or conditions on the professional practice of a licensee;
    (5) impose requirements for remedial professional education to correct deficiencies in the education, training,
    and skill of the licensee;
    (6) impose probation requiring a licensee to report regularly to the board on matters related to the grounds for
    probation;
    (7) impose a civil fine not to exceed $5,000.
    *********************
    (e) The board shall suspend or permanently revoke a transporter license or any class of guide license without a
    hearing if the court orders the board to suspend or permanently revoke the license as a penalty for conviction of an
    unlawful act. If the board suspends or permanently revokes a license under this subsection, the board may not also
    impose an administrative disciplinary sanction of suspension or permanent revocation of the same license for the
    same offense for which the court ordered the suspension or permanent revocation under AS 08.54.720.
    ************************

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