Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 66

Thread: Airplane shooting wolves?????????????

  1. #1

    Default Airplane shooting wolves?????????????

    I came across a picture in the field and stream classic big game photo's from there archives.

    Picture 13 shows former govener Jay S. Hammond (1974-1982) standing with 4 wolf pelts. My question, did airplane hunting of wolves help the caribou move back into the Yukon-Kuskowin-Tanana areas that they have been absent of caribou for so long?
    Hammond was a shooter. The article talked about shooting from a plane leading the wolf in negative lead since the plane is moving faster than the wolf.

  2. #2
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks, Ak.
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    Not only did airplane hunting help caribou.moose numbers in the past, it continues to help today.
    On top of that.................it's just plane FUN...............pun intended!
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  3. #3
    Member Matt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    3,410

    Default

    It would be fun to pop a bunch from the air.

  4. #4
    Member akiceman25's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Two Rivers, AK
    Posts
    1,284

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    It would be fun to pop a bunch from the air.
    I believe that statements like this are part of the reason this type of game management is looked at so harshly by some.

  5. #5
    Moderator Alaskacanoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Sterling
    Posts
    1,450

    Default I guess

    If the aerial shooting were done with a frown on ones face, and a tear coming from the eye, then it would be more acceptable to certain people.
    Or I guess one can feel how ever they feel and just be careful how they express themselves and to who (whom) when they get into coverstation with others they don't know.
    Yes, just because we feel a certain way about something ,,and then say it does not make it PC... That is just the way it is,,,
    what does PC mean anyway?
    Proper conversation
    peoples crap
    personel censorship

    Its like proper bedside manners from a doctor ..I guess, It goes down a lot easier if we sugar coat the truth..

    Max
    When you come to a fork in the trail, take it!

    Rentals for Canoes, Kayaks, Rafts, boats serving the Kenai canoe trail system and the Kenai river for over 15 years. www.alaskacanoetrips.com

  6. #6
    Member tccak71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    2,174

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    It would be fun to pop a bunch from the air.
    The whole aspects seems fun to me too; it can't get much better than that! Combining love of the outdoor, flying skill and shooting. Wish I could have participated in pred control. Anyone know how they have done this year? Seems like the snow (lack of) wouldn't translate into too many kills yet.

    Tim

  7. #7
    Member tccak71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    2,174

    Default

    What I don't get is why you have to land and shoot using a shotgun in some GMU's and you can use a high power rifle and shoot from the plane in others. Any clarification?

    Tim

  8. #8
    Member lab man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    551

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    What I don't get is why you have to land and shoot using a shotgun in some GMU's and you can use a high power rifle and shoot from the plane in others. Any clarification?

    Tim
    I haven't heard about this. What GMU's are you talking about?

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Somewhere between lucky and extremely lucky
    Posts
    592

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    What I don't get is why you have to land and shoot using a shotgun in some GMU's and you can use a high power rifle and shoot from the plane in others. Any clarification?

    Tim

    All the GMU's that allow aerial hunting allow shotguns- if you're properly permitted. Never heard of anyone shooting from the air with a rifle, that would be some skill.

  10. #10
    Member bushrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Now residing in Fairbanks from the bush
    Posts
    4,363

    Default Well, being PC and all...

    ...I've been trying to get folks to use the term "aerial gunning." We really need to differentiate between what is a "control" program and what is "hunting" imo. Hunting involves fair chase principles and chasing wolves from an airplane and gunning them down is not "hunting."

    Tim, the SDA programs that allow aerial gunning are only authorized in five specific areas right now that have ongoing wolf-control programs. Not sure but I don't think the state requires you to use only shotgun; someone correct me if I'm wrong on that.

    Have heard of some pilots that had cockpit actuated semi-autos mounted on struts. Also know of one pilot who doesn't always use a gunner and shoots from front seat himself, not sure just how or if he uses shotgun or rifle. There are some incredible Alaska bush pilots out there particpating in the programs. Some amazing stories too, as you could imagine, like a gunner shooting the tip of prop off. I know a couple pilots/gunners who went down in the past going after wolves from the air; it's a pretty dangerous activity really where you're often cross-controlling aircraft and near stall speed. And gunner has to be careful of course not to shoot prop or struts, fairly narrow shooting window. Takes lots of skill for both pilot and gunner, and it is real cold for the gunner too going 50mph in winter and leaning out the door.

    Last I heard, early on in November there were fair amount of wolves taken in 20E...but nothing like when the program began and wolves were used to hearing super cubs but didn't associate them with buckshot.

  11. #11

    Default

    People, please, you seem to miss the question? It's not about airplane shooting but herd expansion. Has this worked? Can the land feed this herd or even a larger herd?

  12. #12
    Member AKDoug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Talkeetna
    Posts
    5,714

    Default

    The question was answered in the second post. Yes it helped.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

  13. #13
    Member tccak71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    2,174

    Default Great point about semantics...

    Quote Originally Posted by bushrat View Post
    ...I've been trying to get folks to use the term "aerial gunning." We really need to differentiate between what is a "control" program and what is "hunting" imo. Hunting involves fair chase principles and chasing wolves from an airplane and gunning them down is not "hunting."

    Tim, the SDA programs that allow aerial gunning are only authorized in five specific areas right now that have ongoing wolf-control programs. Not sure but I don't think the state requires you to use only shotgun; someone correct me if I'm wrong on that.

    Have heard of some pilots that had cockpit actuated semi-autos mounted on struts. Also know of one pilot who doesn't always use a gunner and shoots from front seat himself, not sure just how or if he uses shotgun or rifle. There are some incredible Alaska bush pilots out there particpating in the programs. Some amazing stories too, as you could imagine, like a gunner shooting the tip of prop off. I know a couple pilots/gunners who went down in the past going after wolves from the air; it's a pretty dangerous activity really where you're often cross-controlling aircraft and near stall speed. And gunner has to be careful of course not to shoot prop or struts, fairly narrow shooting window. Takes lots of skill for both pilot and gunner, and it is real cold for the gunner too going 50mph in winter and leaning out the door.

    Last I heard, early on in November there were fair amount of wolves taken in 20E...but nothing like when the program began and wolves were used to hearing super cubs but didn't associate them with buckshot.
    It surely isn't hunting, as fair chase doesn't apply.

    I thought in 13 you had to land & shoot w/shotguns only, I may be wrong though.

    Bud Conkel (sic?) talked about flying and shooting at the same time; shot the prop on his J3/PA11 too.

    I imagine that the aerial gunning will pick up and more wolves will be taken if more snow comes this spring.

    Tim

  14. #14
    Member tccak71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    2,174

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by lab man View Post
    I haven't heard about this. What GMU's are you talking about?
    Parts of Units 19, 20, & 13 that I know of.

    Tim

  15. #15
    Member tccak71's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    2,174

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by haff202 View Post
    People, please, you seem to miss the question? It's not about airplane shooting but herd expansion. Has this worked? Can the land feed this herd or even a larger herd?

    It couldn't hurt, thats for sure. A sustained program will lead to more moose/caribou; seems like that's what happened in the good 'ole days.

    I'd like to know what happened after they established the predator free zone out by McGrath. I haven't heard anything about it since it was initiated.

    Tim
    I obviously don't know how (or if its possible) to quote multiple members at once.

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    porcupine creek
    Posts
    225

    Default Question

    I've never understood this problem . Why does it matter how wolves are shot ? You use the most efficient means .

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    SW,Ak
    Posts
    182

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tccak71 View Post
    It couldn't hurt, thats for sure. A sustained program will lead to more moose/caribou; seems like that's what happened in the good 'ole days.

    I'd like to know what happened after they established the predator free zone out by McGrath. I haven't heard anything about it since it was initiated.

    Tim
    I obviously don't know how (or if its possible) to quote multiple members at once.


    The moose population is growing do to the bear and wolf program.
    Also from restricted moose hunting.

  18. #18
    Member bushrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Now residing in Fairbanks from the bush
    Posts
    4,363

    Default

    Tim,

    Unit 13 is one of the five areas with an SDA program ongoing where pilots/gunners can shoot from the air. Bios are seeing increase in moose and if you look at proposal book for spring BOG meeting there are several proposals to allow non-resident moose hunting again in some Unit 13 areas.

    McGrath program is more complicated, wish I could get that ADFG presentation posted on the forum...good one given last spring at BOG meeting on it.

    Inre the original question, keep in mind that caribou herds have fluctuated bigtime in the past well before airplanes came into the country. Migration routes can vary substantially too depending on weather and habitat factors. Many times overhunting by new waves of humans decimated some herds, like the Fortymile herd. Fire, weather, predation, all play roles, and so does hunting. Look at what happened with the Mulchatna herd. I don't think that can be attributed to just wolf predation, nor do I believe that if we instituted control program there that the herd would necesarily come back to same size.

    With caribou it's more complicated...look at Nelchina herd; we now know we've pretty much reached sustainable carrying capacity and any real increase in that herd may not be best thing over the long term. Trying to manage multiple species at same time is fraught with problems cuz what may be best for caribou may not be best for moose and vice versa. Caribou do best feeding on lichen that takes fifty years to grow...burn all that off in large wildfires and migration routes change and carrying capacity/range changes.

    Just killing wolves and reducing their numbers 80% over vast areas doesn't always lead to good things happening over the long term for hunters and/or habitat. Something to consider really and what type of hunting experience you want for you and your kids. God forbid I ever see the day we reach the median Intensive Management harvest objectives for Fortymile herd (8,000 caribou). Hunters take about 1,000 animals out of that herd now each year, and we've got huge problems with that on many levels (atv/orv abuse, combat hunting scenarios, bullets zinging past etc.) I think we really need to review all the IM objectives for each area and be more moderate in what wish for.

    Just this man's opinion,

  19. #19
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks, Ak.
    Posts
    4,191

    Default

    Is deep snow "fair" to a moose? Is it "fair" for a wolf to pull the calf out of the caribou as it is born and eat it?
    Could someone expalin at what point in human history our abilities became SO great that we needed to designate "fair" as a requirement for hunting?
    For thousands of years, humans have had only one thing to allow them to survive as a species. Our brain. Could someone explain at what point in history we began to develope ways to hunt that are not "fair"
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  20. #20
    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage Alaska
    Posts
    4,835

    Default not sure on management

    What bushrat is saying makes a lot of sense....

    but - I have shot coyotes in Montana out of a Cub with a shotgun. Not hunting stalking for sure, but it is pretty exciting. Once you know when to pull the trigger it becomes pretty easy. If it is cold (did it once at -35) it is more difficult. The pilot (my ex father in law) had people shoot his prop and his struts - you have a fairly small window and as such - swinging the shotgun is not recommended.

    As for whether it is efficient - the landowner/flyer - had very little sheep/coyote problems after he bought his cub in the early 1970's. He paid for his Cub in 2 winters via coyote pelts.

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •