Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: First 45ACP Reloads Done!

  1. #1

    Talking First 45ACP Reloads Done!

    I finished my very first 45ACP reloads last night. It was dark and cold (cold for NC anyway), but I couldn't stand it so I went out in the backyard and cracked off a couple to make sure they would function.... Well I held the pistol about a foot off the ground and fired 2 for function. The hole in the ground was almost big enough to fit my fist into and about 6 inches deep. I was happy!

    These were mixed brass, winchester large pistol primers and 5.0 grains of Bullseye topped with a Rainier 230gr hollowpoint.


    I used the cheap Lee Reloader C-face press and Lee deluxe dies, but I did not crimp. I just flared them enough to get the bullet to sit on top and seated them to ~1.110" which is the same as Federal Hydra-Shok. I had 2 of 50 that skimmed some copper jacket so I just filed off the little bit of copper pushed up on those.

    I have been able to reload 338WM, 30-06, and now 45ACP on this little press. I may upgrade to the Lee Turret press just so I don't have to keep adjusting the dies.

    EDIT: I recovered one of the rounds. It expanded well, but looks like it hit a good rock in the red clay and shed the jacket and part of the nose on one side.

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    505

    Default Crimp?

    TN_Hillbilly,

    Good for you.

    You mentioned that you "did not crimp". I trust you know the difference between a taper crimp and a roll crimp. Even if you do a taper crimp, be sure you don't overdo it, as the case mouth has to bump up against the shoulder you find 0.898" into the chamber. That's what keeps the cartridge from going too far into the chamber (headspace).

    Good luck, good shooting and don't pinch your fingers in your press.

    Lost Sheep
    Last edited by Lost Sheep; 01-15-2009 at 20:14. Reason: forgot signature

  3. #3

    Default Hmmmm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Sheep View Post
    TN_Hillbilly,

    Good for you.

    You mentioned that you "did not crimp". I trust you know the difference between a taper crimp and a roll crimp. Even if you do a taper crimp, be sure you don't overdo it, as the case mouth has to bump up against the shoulder you find 0.898" into the chamber. That's what keeps the cartridge from going too far into the chamber (headspace).

    Good luck, good shooting and don't pinch your fingers in your press.

    Lost Sheep
    Well I thought I knew what I was talking about, but now you got me confused. I used the Lee delux pistol dies, set of 4. Full length resize/decap, flare, bullet seater, and did not use the factory crimp die. Am I missing something? Does the bullet seater actually seat and crimp somehow?

  4. #4
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    4,431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Hillbilly View Post
    Well I thought I knew what I was talking about, but now you got me confused. I used the Lee delux pistol dies, set of 4. Full length resize/decap, flare, bullet seater, and did not use the factory crimp die. Am I missing something? Does the bullet seater actually seat and crimp somehow?

    Hmmm? Are you missing something? Well, did you think there was no need to use the fourth die?

    Also, you say; ".......... Lee deluxe dies, but I did not crimp. I just flared them enough to get the bullet to sit on top and seated them to ~1.110" which is the same as Federal Hydra-Shok. I had 2 of 50 that skimmed some copper jacket so I just filed off the little bit of copper pushed up on those."

    Your loads look good but if there is any flare in the case it may fail to chamber all the way.

    Flaring the case mouth slightly more will allow the bullet to be seated without shaving off copper, then remove that flare with a quick cycle through the crimp die, or readjust the seater and use the taper crimp built into the seating die ( a better plan) and get an appropriate crimp for consistant headspace. These things will make for better accuracy on those occasions when you aren't just shooting into the ground.

    I believe the Rainier bullets are copper plated, not jacketed. The expanded round looks to be of a jacketed bullet, maybe I'm just seeing it wrong.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    505

    Default Crimping styles

    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Hillbilly View Post
    Well I thought I knew what I was talking about, but now you got me confused. I used the Lee delux pistol dies, set of 4. Full length resize/decap, flare, bullet seater, and did not use the factory crimp die. Am I missing something? Does the bullet seater actually seat and crimp somehow?
    You probably DO know what you are talking about. I was just not sure. Putting a roll crimp could create problems with headspacing and not having enough crimp could cause problems feeding and chambering the rounds. So that was my concern.

    Your loaded cartridges look absolutely perfect.

    The 45 ACP cartridge case grips the bullet by squeezing the sides of the bullet to hold it with friction so as not to fall out of the cartridge OR get pushed deeper into the case during feeding. So, the case has to be small enough in diameter to accomplish that task.

    The 45 ACP case mouth has to butt up against a shoulder in the chamber, to ensure the back of the cartridge and the primer is in proper position. Otherwise the primer may not get hit by the firing pin or the case head (back end) may stretch and rupture. So, the case has to be large enough in diameter to accomplish that task. But if it is too wide it may hang up in your action.

    The Lee Factory Crimp Die has a good reputation for putting a proper crimp on the cartridge, leaving the case mouth wide enough for headspacing and tight enough to grip the bullet tightly and feed properly.

    Not to worry.

    If your cartridges hold the bullet firmly, feed through your action reliably and headspace firmly, you are good. If they don't, the Lee Factory Crimp Die should take care of it.

    Lost Sheep

    Remember, only believe half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for what you get from the internet. Even this post, so read the instruction sheet that came with your die set carefully and confirm all that I have said.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    505

    Default Another Crimping Thread

    TN_Hillbilly,

    Talk about fortuitous. On another forum, I just spotted this thread which talks about taper crimping (and regular crimping, too) much more thoroughly and clearly than I could.

    http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=44870

    Again, the Lee Factory Crimp die has an excellent reputation.

    Lost Sheep

  7. #7
    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Missing Palmer AK in Phonix AZ.
    Posts
    6,416

    Default

    Doesnít the Lee 4 die set "deluxe set" he has come with the factory crimp die?

    The 2 rounds look good to me but don't look crimped. You can play with the adjustments and keep some notes of how your gun likes them, you will go far. Use calipers, if youíre not already, so youíre not guessing blind. Dang nice for first loads ever, I'd shoot them for ya if you donít want to! Good work, keep at it.

    Andy

  8. #8

    Default Murphy...

    The rounds just looked so good and tight I didn't want to mess it up with a crimp. I knew I could flare more and seat the bullets easier, but I had read about people having crimp problems so I figured I would give it a shot. (Maybe the brass will last longer, but what do I know.)

    You are right of course about flaring more to prevent shaving jacket. These are Rainier 230grn hollowpoint ordered from Cabelas. You would think plating wouldn't separate like that, but there it is.

  9. #9
    Moderator
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    4,431

    Default

    I believe that crimping is a necessary step for all rimless handgun rounds. (Case mouth headspacing) We only taper crimp these because a roll crimp will shorten the case effectively by rolling the case mouth in and destroy the established headspace dimension. (It is contolled by case length) We cannot tollerate much variation in case length for these rounds but the nature of the taper crimp is that it does not effect the effective lenght of the loaded round, therefore, the headspace dimension is not changed by crimping. When we give a good roll crimp to a heavy revolver round (The needs are different for revolvers) we roll the mouth of our carefully trimmed case into the bullet to grip it, effectively changing its length, but we don't care about that, just that the bullet stay in the case.

    There is no way for a bullet to fit a case tight enough to eliminate the need for the requirement for crimping in a handgun round, semi-auto or revlover. If we only single feed, shoot only one round at a time in either gun, excepted but that isn't a practical application. The Lee factory crimp die has a carbide ring in the die that corrrectly dimensioned the case and will iron out any bulge from poor seating effort as the cartridge goes into the die and will then crimp to the extend that it is adjusted. In this case it will only taper crimp. Also a neat feature of that die is that it wll remove any case crimp bulge or wrinkle caused by over crimping with the roll crimp type of crimp. It will also squeeze the under flared cases crinkled sidewall and allow this round to chamber, even though the case is ruined. This is one reason for using the die, factory loaded or home made, it fixes any booboos. It also reduces the possibility of us seeing the occasional over crimp or overly long case to be sorted out.

    The Lee factory crimp die will also over work a case excessively if not adjusted correctly for each particular caliber and such misadjustment will be less visable do to the dies ability to dress up a loaded cartridge. The round will fit the chamber but the case may not be usable again after fired, in extreme cases. For factory loaded ammo, this is a big plus, they don't really expect you the handloader to reuse the case. For handloaders, brass life is important. With the Lee factory crimp die, properly adjusted, it will likely make every case fit every chamber, even if the case length is slightly incorrect. It is important to use the die with the Lee shell holder for the correct dimensions to be maintained.

    In some situations, with those cases that headspace on the case mouth, we don't always want or need the max crimp provided by these dies. Sometimes we will only need a slight taper crimp, to minimize overworking the case, and with some easy feeder pistols. This particularly for low recoiling match loads for highly tuned pistols. A taper crimp will gently squeeze (taper) the mouth slightly and this will leave a sharp edge inside the case mouth to dig into the bullet with a smoothly shaped exterior of the case mouth to promote feeding. When the requirement for placing shots in a nice round 3" circle at 50 yards is the challenge, you'll quickly see how varying crimp and case neck tension are important. For these reasons I always use the fully adjustable taper crimp of the Redding taper crimp die.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,461

    Default

    Thanks Professor Murphy, very interesting and useful review of the Lee Factory Crimping Die...I'm always learning from you and others here.

    I've been using the LFCD for several cartridges (.454 Casull, .45ACP, 10mm...even .223), and I just got my Midway order yesterday that included a LFCD for 357 SIG that I'm going to use when I fire-up the Dillon this weekend. So far the LFCD has worked like a charm for me through multiple reloadings of the same brass, and I adjust it to put a mean crimp on the 454 to hold those boys in place.

    How would I know if it was overworking the brass, and if the die is overworking the brass, then where would I likely see stress signs on the case? I'm guessing it would appear around the case mouth, but maybe not.

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    505

    Default Overworked brass

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc View Post
    Thanks Professor Murphy, very interesting and useful review of the Lee Factory Crimping Die...I'm always learning from you and others here.

    I've been using the LFCD for several cartridges (.454 Casull, .45ACP, 10mm...even .223), and I just got my Midway order yesterday that included a LFCD for 357 SIG that I'm going to use when I fire-up the Dillon this weekend. So far the LFCD has worked like a charm for me through multiple reloadings of the same brass, and I adjust it to put a mean crimp on the 454 to hold those boys in place.

    How would I know if it was overworking the brass, and if the die is overworking the brass, then where would I likely see stress signs on the case? I'm guessing it would appear around the case mouth, but maybe not.
    TN_Hillbilly

    Brass, every time you flare it, crimp it, expand it (by shooting) or bend it in any way, gets stiffer and more brittle. Eventually, it will crack, rather than stretch (usually when being belled). You will probably see a crack in the case mouth, but may be able to feel it with your finger before then. In my experience, it has always been the case mouth that fails first, as you correctly guess.

    This will happen no matter how much you are "working" the brass, so work it only as much as necessary for loading, no more. How much is too much? Any more than the minimum.

    You may be able to extend the life of your brass, by annealing, but that is beyond my ken. It is more worth the trouble for rifle brass than for (the cheaper) pistol cartridges.

  12. #12
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,461

    Default

    Thanks Lost Sheep...I'll start a new thread about metal fatique...sorry if I side-tracked your thread here TN_hillbilly.

    Doc

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •