Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: What PDF do you use?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    19

    Default What PDF do you use?

    I have been a member for sometime, read and learned from many posts. The recent discussions about first aid supplies and the help for a rafter coming up for an adventure are a couple of examples.

    After reading the posts about accidents and near misses, there is almost always a note about wearing your PFD. Those of you that contribute to this forum have had experiances with most if not all makes and models, and can make an educated recommendation.

    The warmer months finds me running a bass boat (yeah it's a Skeeter) and I use a SOSpender or Mustang style auto-inflate horse collar. If I get tossed out, I may not be able to pull the cord....Anyone use these for rafting?

    So what kind of PFD do you use?
    Last edited by Alaskacanoe; 01-12-2009 at 00:21. Reason: attempted to change header to PFD instead of PDF

  2. #2
    Member danattherock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    5,608

    Default

    I just got two of these for my upcoming trip to ANWR. They are the Kokatat Bahia Tour PFD from LL Bean.

    http://www.llbean.com/webapp/wcs/sto...rom=SR&feat=sr

    What I like the most, aside from just being great quality and fitting, is that the pockets on the front are big enough to carry plenty of fire starting materials and there is also a pocket to hold my gps unit. I want the firestarting stuff on me at all times and the gps in the pocket will be easily to get to. The wife has the same vest and the gps pocket on this model will hold an ACR Microfix plb. Great vest from what I can see. I got the mango (yellow) color as well. If I am every in the position to have to look for my wife in the water, I sure want to see her.
    The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, AK
    Posts
    273

    Default A lot depends on the activity.

    Class III is the very least recommended for whitewater, but that description is pretty vague. I use life jackets for kayaking, and make sure they have a minimum of 16 lbs flotation capability for myself, knowing full well I should be in more. I would like to get a new one with at least 25 lbs as they are coming out with new high floats that don't limit mobility as much. If I am rafting class IV or greater water though it is a good idea to wear a high float PFD with 25 -30 lbs flotatation. This is especially important for less experienced passengers that face a high risk of long violent swims where rescue is difficult. Americas cup makes some good type V high float PFD's specifically for whitewater use.

    Inflatable life jackets are for small lake and pond fishermen and that's about it as far as I'm concerned, also most of them have a dissolveable pill that will pop the life jacket when it gets wet, and in whitewater, it gets wet. Also, if your getting thrashed in a hole, the last thing you want to try to figure out is where the cord is for your life jacket. On another note, inflatable life jackets tend to have their cords come out and snag on things and POOF!! Bummer, there goes 20 bucks for a recharge kit.

    Dan has a good point, it is a good thing to have bright colors, it's allways to have every chance at seeing where people are.

    Hope this helps.

    Chris
    Last edited by Chris_Stout; 01-12-2009 at 01:00. Reason: Dan

  4. #4
    Member alaskachuck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska, United States
    Posts
    3,256

    Default

    I use a combo setup. It is a fishing vest that doubles as my life jacket. They are CO2 charged with a tube to inflate as a back up. (knock on wood) June and I have never had the experience to use them nor do we want to. I believe they are made by sterns. For the upper kenai, willow, kasilof and all they work perfect for us. then again like I said. I have never had to use them
    Grandkids, Making big tough guys hearts melt at first sight

  5. #5

    Default

    I have different life vests and I use them dependent on what I am doing. If I am on a river, unless it is a completely flat one that all you have to do is stand up to get out (the Little Su comes to mind), I wear my big honking Stearns that also doubles as a rescue vest since it has enough floatation for two people and a spot to connect a rope if you end up being the rescue swimmer. It is a somewhat uncomfortable, big, bulky thing. But, in real whitewater, I will wear no other.

    Everything else, I mostly use my stylish and comfortable cammo floatation jacket you can buy at Sportman's for 150 bucks or so. I like em cause they make a decent raincoat, are warm and surprisingly when I tested mine at Finger Lake, actually have decent floatation. They are also nice and comfy to boot so I wear it just about all the time which I am sure helps in the safety factor. Everybody has their personal preferrence in this for sure. The bottom line (no pun intended) buy the one you will wear. That is the one that will work for you.

  6. #6
    New member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    931

    Exclamation CO2 PFD’s - The unwise option 4 floating Alaska’s rivers!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeter225 View Post
    I have been a member for sometime, read and learned from many posts. The recent discussions about first aid supplies and the help for a rafter coming up for an adventure are a couple of examples.

    After reading the posts about accidents and near misses, there is almost always a note about wearing your PFD. Those of you that contribute to this forum have had experiances with most if not all makes and models, and can make an educated recommendation.

    The warmer months finds me running a bass boat (yeah it's a Skeeter) and I use a SOSpender or Mustang style auto-inflate horse collar. If I get tossed out, I may not be able to pull the cord....Anyone use these for rafting?

    So what kind of PFD do you use?
    CO2 PFD’s - The unwise option 4 floating Alaska’s rivers!!!

    The use of a self inflating PFD as a means for primary personal protection is an unwise (better interpreted same as foolish) practice on river float trips. Folk in favor of this kind of unsuitable appliance is unmistakably mistaken and giving in actual fact awful advice.

    This would be like suggesting doing away with your motor vehicles seatbelt and replacing it with some effect that you could clip into concurrently for the equivalent restraint at some stage of a crash. Sounds dim-witted does it not? Well??? OK… so let no one endorse CO2 PFD’s as primary life jackets for Alaska river use.

    That said – what are some positive, important applications that fit the rationale for self inflating PFD designs. Operational use such as activities around water (NOT RAFTING, KAYAKING, SKIFFING, ETC.) were there’s some unintentional opportunity for falling in… fishing industry requirements, aircraft relevance, water crossings and wading are some examples, just to name a few.

    I saw float coats mentioned here as well… in addition, these are not intended to be used as primary personal floatation in moving water and are not classified ‘Coast Guard approved’ per the certification directives for use. Is it comfortable? Yes. Is wearing this device better than nothing? Yes. Does this make it correct/acceptable for the applications we are addressing? Absolutely not!

    So… What are some good choices? Clearly, there are some outstanding Type III & III/V varieties that are well thought out designs having user friendly features from a number of reputable companies. To recommend what may be suitable for you is kind of an anonymous perspective other than urging the selection of a Type III & III/V high-floatation PFD FOR RIVER USE from a company of good reputation.

  7. #7
    Member BlueMoose's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Rifle River MI
    Posts
    1,835

    Default What I like

    Brain thanks for getting to the bottom line great post.

    On a side note here is a link just one of many options for your standard rafting /boating fishing on mild to mid water and by no means rated to Class IV/V.

    Comfortable, does not stick out to far offers decent protection and has pockets!

    http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.a...50&deptid=2059

    Out playing in a raft in water that is fun!'


    http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.a...49&deptid=1682

    Best of luck with your choice.

  8. #8

    Default hi float comfort

    I use the extrasport B-22 hi float. This vest has two pockets in the front, is smaller than you think a vest with 22lbs of flotation could be and looks good. You can use it for rafting, inflatable kayaking and it does not hinder me in a hardshell kayak when doing an Eskimo roll. This vest has as much float as an Americas cup vest which is much larger, but the B-22 does not have the flap behind the head, which can provide head / neck protection, or can help create an air space in the instance of a foot entrapment if ones mostly above water. I have had some gnarly swims in the B-22 vest and really enjoy coming to the surface faster.
    Most boaters require 7-12 pounds of flotation to float them, this is in calm water. It takes alot more to float someone in good old bubbly whitewater. I believe the coast guard minimum for a type lll is 15.5 lbs. (not for me).
    I am a believer of this and some may disagree in a hole you must rely on your vest to pop you up, to struggle underwater consumes oxygen, its best to allow the undercurrent to spit you out, its usually to powerful to resist anyway. Without the confidence of a good vest any boater would be inclined to burn their precious oxygen A higher float allows this to happen faster and also helps keep your head above water more often if your floating through waves.
    If your on flatwater 15.5 is fine, type lll or v for rivers. Be safe have fun MO

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Richardson View Post
    CO2 PFD’s - The unwise option 4 floating Alaska’s rivers!!!

    The use of a self inflating PFD as a means for primary personal protection is an unwise (better interpreted same as foolish) practice on river float trips. Folk in favor of this kind of unsuitable appliance is unmistakably mistaken and giving in actual fact awful advice.

    This would be like suggesting doing away with your motor vehicles seatbelt and replacing it with some effect that you could clip into concurrently for the equivalent restraint at some stage of a crash. Sounds dim-witted does it not? Well??? OK… so let no one endorse CO2 PFD’s as primary life jackets for Alaska river use.

    That said – what are some positive, important applications that fit the rationale for self inflating PFD designs. Operational use such as activities around water (NOT RAFTING, KAYAKING, SKIFFING, ETC.) were there’s some unintentional opportunity for falling in… fishing industry requirements, aircraft relevance, water crossings and wading are some examples, just to name a few.

    I saw float coats mentioned here as well… in addition, these are not intended to be used as primary personal floatation in moving water and are not classified ‘Coast Guard approved’ per the certification directives for use. Is it comfortable? Yes. Is wearing this device better than nothing? Yes. Does this make it correct/acceptable for the applications we are addressing? Absolutely not!

    So… What are some good choices? Clearly, there are some outstanding Type III & III/V varieties that are well thought out designs having user friendly features from a number of reputable companies. To recommend what may be suitable for you is kind of an anonymous perspective other than urging the selection of a Type III & III/V high-floatation PFD FOR RIVER USE from a company of good reputation.
    Brian,

    Do notice that in my post (and I know you are referring to my posting) that I do not wear a float coat on the river....... and clearly said what PFD I use on the river. Never said one should use a float coat on the river. I said you should wear a PFD with as much floatation as possible and referrenced my Stearns.

    To make it crystal clear, I use a float coat on lakes which is where I said I use and tested mine.

    Your advice is sound and I will not argue at all with you. Perhaps I should hone in on my posting skills as I was not clear enough. My bad.

    Have a great evening!

  10. #10
    Member gspd750's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta
    Posts
    27

    Default

    I recently purchased an NRS Chinook. A type III at great price, 16.5 lbs. of floatation and plenty of pockets. I have not used it yet...but I think I'm going to like it.


    More here...
    http://www.nrsweb.com/global/press_r...de_Chinook.pdf

    http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.a...50&deptid=2059

  11. #11
    New member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    931

    Thumbs up PFD follow-up

    Should be no uncertainties TR… No need to be suggestive of a defensive tone –

    I addressed the constructive topic of discussion to focus and clarify criteria on PFD’s for river use. I plainly spell out the inadequacies or limitations involved that can render horrifying consequences when using (or trusting in) self inflating vests and float coats in the wrong way. It’s that simple.

    So no, I was not making reference to your helpful post & did view that you were promoting river safety.

    Clarification is a good thing -

    I think we both agree that all the gadgetry, neat little pockets all over, self-inflaters, floater coats and mustang-type exposure suits do not provide the the superlative primary forms of Type III or Type III/V personal floatation devices on Alaska's rivers.

    Buoyancy, Reliability, Simplicity, Function ---
    then fit, comforts and all the bells/whistles features!

  12. #12

    Default

    Kokatat OutFit Tour Life Jacket is one vest I use currently. I don't remember how many lbs. of float, but it is a great lifevest. I am a class I-III rafter so my needs may differ a bit. The most important thing for me from this vest is comfort (bouyancy is important too). If you are not comfortable in a life vest, you probably will be taking it off and using it as a back rest. I recommend finding at least a class III PFD, with plenty of bouyancy for your style of rafting, then finding one you will wear.

    The great thing about my Kokatat vest (for me) is the comfort. I don't feel my movements are restricted in any way and end up never taking it off (until I realize I don't need it around camp...). Although this shouldn't be the first concern, the pockets are great for me. I fit a GPS in one pocket, fire start, shop towels (TP), parachute cord, leatherman squirt, a snack (snickers fun size) and other emergancy items in my pockets, and strap my McNett knife on the outside, with a whistle on the outside. The amount of pockets are great for me, and helps me to get to stuff I really need quickly (snack or GPS or knife).

    I see the Kokatat is on sale at backcountry.com for $85 in case your interested
    http://www.backcountry.com/store/KOK...fe-Jacket.html

    I also use the Extrasport B22 Hi float. It is a great vest! Simple and comfortable.

    There are a lot of good options out there. Find a PFD that fits and you will wear!

  13. #13
    Member chriso's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Los Anchorage
    Posts
    810

    Default The most comfortable life jacket I've found...

    A jacket that meets the criteria so well described above is of primary importance, secondly, (in my opinion) is fit and comfort. If the jacket fits and is comfortable, you'll be more inclined to have it on at the time you most find yourself needing it. I've owned most of the jackets recommended so far in this post and love them all, but for my "round" shape and for lack of restriction is this one:

    http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product.a...42&deptid=1682

    BUT YOU GOTTA WEAR 'EM!!!

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    1,449

    Default

    I started wearing high flotation PFDs when I first got into whitewater. I recall several class IV and V swims where all that buoyancy was a lifesaver. My wife was glad I wore one.

    I now wear an America's Cup Ultra Float almost all the time. I used to wear a Extra Sport B-22, but found the Ultra Float more comfortable. I know that's not everyone else's experience, but it is mine, so that's what I wear. They are also more adjustable than just about anything else, so one size fits most anyone. Just be sure to adjust it snugly.

    I agree that inflatable PFDs are a poor choice for most rivers. Another really bad idea is wearing a PFD without all the straps snapped closed. You should always test a PFD by jumping in the water. Preferably in the type of water you will be running, but a pool is better than nothing. Then see how well it works. If you try it out you will find that it is almost impossible to put a PFD on after you are in the water, and very difficult to get the snaps shut if it is still on. Compound that by the extra effort needed in cold moving water, and you could find yourself the end goal of a recovery effort. Even if you can get it on and buckled, it takes time. Time that you would be better used getting back in your boat, or out of the water. For the same reasons, inflatable PFDs are not a good choice for river use.

    PFDs are like insurance, you hope you never need it, but should never be without it.

  15. #15
    Moderator Alaskacanoe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Sterling
    Posts
    1,450

    Default Inflatable vests

    there are a few different types of activation choices with Inflatables, the Hydrostatic vests called (HIT) hydrostatic inflatable technology.
    will work in wet conditions and will not inflate until completely submersed in 4 inch's of water.
    Class V (5) coast guard rating with a 28lb boyancy rating.
    Unless vest has been activated, it is good for 5 years with no service.
    These type vest are for people 16 or older.
    Mustang has some videos that show them in action.
    here is a link
    http://www.mustangsurvival.com/inflatable-pfd/

    I would imagine with the coast guard approval and a class V rating these vests will be attractive to folks looking for a less bulky alternative.

    I won't be wearing one going down 6 mile, or any other fast water.
    But its nice to look at how these things work, and the newer technology that we are seeing
    Max
    When you come to a fork in the trail, take it!

    Rentals for Canoes, Kayaks, Rafts, boats serving the Kenai canoe trail system and the Kenai river for over 15 years. www.alaskacanoetrips.com

  16. #16

    Default Redundancy at work... Again!

    Heck, Alaskacanoe -

    If I had read THIS thread first, I could have saved my posting in the canoe forum!

    Thanks for finding the Mustang link, btw..
    I am in betwen patients in the ER and couldn't find it prior to posting.

    Doc

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    19

    Smile What PFD do you use?

    Thanks for all the great information as always. I have some new links to explore and new info to ponder for sure.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •