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Thread: Right to carry in National Parks.

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    Member HuntKodiak's Avatar
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    Default Right to carry in National Parks.

    I just got this bulletin from a friend this morning in an NRA alert he forwarded me. I remember this topic was discussed a while back, and thought I'd share. If this is a repeat of another post, my apologies. I haven't been able to visit the forums much lately.

    New Rules On Right-To-Carry
    In Our National Parks Take Effect Today






    In early December, the U.S. Department of the Interior (DOI), through the National Park Service and U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, announced the final amended version of a change to rules on carrying firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges. The change will restore the right of law-abiding gun owners to transport and carry concealed firearms for lawful purposes on most DOI lands, according to the laws of the states in which these public lands are located.
    The new rule, which takes effect today, allows Right-to-Carry permit holders to carry concealed firearms in national parks and wildlife refuges in states that recognize their permits. The new rule will also put an end to the patchwork of regulations that governed different lands managed by different federal agencies. In the past, Bureau of Land Management and Forest Service lands allowed the carrying of firearms, while lands managed by DOI did not.


  2. #2

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    The Washington Post had a blurb two weeks ago indicating that the Brady folks had filed suit to attempt to postpone this change until the new administration gets in. Not sure if they were successful or not. I hope not.

    -hiker
    "Happiness is a warm gun - bang bang, shoot shoot!"
    -Lennon/McCartney

  3. #3

    Default Read the RULES

    While the right to carry on DOI lands has been restored;CAUTION. This rule still prohibits the carrying of firearms in the buildings on DOI lands. These buildings are like federal courthouses and even CCW holders are not allowed to carry there. From what I've read.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  4. #4

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    Two lawsuits that I know of, one by the Brady campaign, one by various national advocates of the parks. They both seek injunctions but I know of no injunction that has yet taken effect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brav01 View Post
    While the right to carry on DOI lands has been restored;CAUTION. This rule still prohibits the carrying of firearms in the buildings on DOI lands. These buildings are like federal courthouses and even CCW holders are not allowed to carry there. From what I've read.
    FWIW...

    New park reg. The one for National Wildlife Refuges is similar:

    § 2.4 Weapons traps and nets.


    (h) Notwithstanding any other provision in this Chapter, a person may possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable firearms within a national park area in accordance with the laws of the state in which the national park area, or that portion thereof, is located, except as otherwise prohibited by applicable Federal law.
    And...the "applicable Federal law":

    18 USC § 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities


    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

    (g) As used in this section: (1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

  6. #6

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    "(g) As used in this section: (1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties. "



    This could be interpreted as including the outhouse.

    -hiker
    "Happiness is a warm gun - bang bang, shoot shoot!"
    -Lennon/McCartney

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    Member jdb3's Avatar
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    Some of the answers are not completely correct. Title 18, Part 1, Chapter 44, at 930 states:
    "(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearem or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both."
    "(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to -
    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent or employee of the United States, a State or a political subdivison thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation or prosecution of any violation of law;
    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law: or
    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other danerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to huntinr or other lawful purposes."

    Number 3 holds if, for example, you are going into a Forest Service Office to get your Federal Subsistence Permit. It is permissible to carry your rifle in with you. That would be perfectly legal. It is only ilegal when you carry one in for an illegal purpose. Jim

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdb3 View Post

    Number 3 holds if, for example, you are going into a Forest Service Office to get your Federal Subsistence Permit. It is permissible to carry your rifle in with you. That would be perfectly legal. It is only ilegal when you carry one in for an illegal purpose. Jim
    It is "ilegal" if you carry it in for anything other than the three listed exceptions. Why do you need a rifle in a Forest Service office to pick up your subsistence permit? The moose are in the woods, not the office

    The law does provide though that it is not enforceable unless signage indicating the prohibition is posted on the doors of the office/building.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HuntKodiak View Post
    I just got this bulletin from a friend this morning in an NRA alert he forwarded me. I remember this topic was discussed a while back, and thought I'd share. If this is a repeat of another post, my apologies. I haven't been able to visit the forums much lately.

    I read today that Obama put a freeze on this. Anyone know any more about it?

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    it is my understanding that Obama put a freeze on pending regulations. The National Park Carry rule is no longer pending. He could do away with it with an executive order but that will take time. My source for this information is thehighroad.org, where there are several threads discussing the issue.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by hiker View Post
    "(g) As used in this section: (1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties. "



    This could be interpreted as including the outhouse.

    -hiker
    Are they performing official duties in the outhouse??? Sorry, I couldn't resist....

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    Do we need a permit to carry in the park? I was originally under the impression that the ruling would follow the state right to carry law, which would imply that no ccw permit was needed, but listened to Joe Nava on KFAR Thursday and he was saying that maybe a permit was needed, but still hadn't nailed down the park authorities on this matter. Has anyone out there got a definitive answer from anyone in authority? Thanks..Louis

  13. #13

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    Current guidance is that the rule states what it states. If you are carrying concealed and following the provisions of state law and following 18 USC section 930 or other federal laws about firearms possession such as the the Lautenberg Amendment (note those are three different elements all of which have to be satisfied) then possession is not unlawful.

  14. #14

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    IOW if your state allows you to carry a firearm without a permit, then you have satisfied the requirement to follow state law. But the agencies still require it to be concealed i.e. hidden whether or not you live in an open carry state.

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    Quote Originally Posted by akav8r View Post
    Are they performing official duties in the outhouse??? Sorry, I couldn't resist....
    After what congress passed and prez signed you tell me if you feel like you got shat on? I sure do and their fixing to take another dump on us tax payers.

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    Member HuntKodiak's Avatar
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    Default We all knew this was coming....

    Here's the latest update I received on the right to carry in National Parks,

    " On Thursday, March 19, a federal district court in Washington, D.C. granted anti-gun plaintiffs a preliminary injunction against implementation of the new rule allowing law-abiding citizens to defend themselves by carrying a concealed firearm in national parks and wildlife refuges.
    In Thursday's ruling, Federal District Court Judge Colleen Kollar-Kotelly issued the preliminary injunction against the Department of the Interior rule that took effect on January 9, 2009. The revised rule allowed individuals to carry concealed firearms for self-defense in national parks and national wildlife refuges located in states that allow the carrying of concealed firearms.
    Today, NRA filed a notice of appeal in Federal District Court to oppose the preliminary injunction. "

    When you combine this with the recent effort by the Obama administration to shut down the program that qualifies commercial airline pilots from carrying firearms with them in the cockpit, I think it's safe to say that Obama's anti-gun stance is CLEARLY coming out now!

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    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuntKodiak View Post

    When you combine this with the recent effort by the Obama administration to shut down the program that qualifies commercial airline pilots from carrying firearms with them in the cockpit, I think it's safe to say that Obama's anti-gun stance is CLEARLY coming out now!

    Unfortunately, I agree. I got an email the other day from the National Park Service. The injunction was from a female federal judge and will hold things up for one month. The Dept of Interior has until April 20th to decide if they will allow the law to change back to its original status. So, April 20th will be the big day for gun rights advocates. Either way.
    The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

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    Negro muslin President, Female Dem judge, Liberal Dems, need you say more...

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    I had Pelosi on a flight recently. She was the last one to board and complained about not having overhead space, to fricking bad. If your the last to board then you get whats left over, to bad, so sad!

    Her secret service detail, two armed escorts had guns, imagine that. It seems the Dems can have guns when it suits them but the rest of us can't. Vote those A-Holes out!

    I hope didn't offend any hard working tax paying gun owners. I've had a few drinks tonight.

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    Drinking and posting is the new version of drinking and dialing. Just <don't> do it.

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