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Thread: Cook Inlet kings... where do they go?

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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Default Cook Inlet kings... where do they go?

    Ask and ye shall receive!

    This data comes courtesy of Ty'N'Mon that I lifted from his post on Ifish.net in Oregon.
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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Interesting how so many recoveries come out of the Bering Sea. Anybody know of established fisheries purposely targeting those fish, or is it more likely they are by-catch recoveries from the draggers targeting pollock?
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    Take a look at some of the Kodiak saltwater King Salmon websites and read some of them to boot. Some of them obviously think that they catching Kenai Kings.

    Lots of talk over the years about stocks not from Kodiak being intercepted by commercial nets while they are passing through the area as well. Not saying that this is "gospel" but it sure comes up a lot. Werewolves, vampires, and unicorns are mentioned quite often as well so take it for what it is worth.
    Last edited by iceblue; 01-08-2009 at 16:30. Reason: added as well

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    I find it interesting how few fish take a left after leaving the inlet.... I always thought a significant number wandered down off the coast of BC and the Panhandle. Very Interesting
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    Default size/age/sample

    What were the size of the fish? Age of the fish? Sample size of the population that were tracked?

    Do you have any information on the tracking devices?

    pretty cool stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markw3 View Post
    I find it interesting how few fish take a left after leaving the inlet.... I always thought a significant number wandered down off the coast of BC and the Panhandle. Very Interesting
    It's a good thing they don't.
    Imagine what would happen to the runs if they did.

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    Default Bering Sea by-catch

    Off of the top of my head, I think I remember reading the the trawl fleet in the Bering Sea caught ~100,000 chinook in 2007 as by-catch. It would seem that part of the reason there are so many recaptures of CWT fish in the BS is due to the large amount of fishing effort in the area.

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    Member fishNphysician's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bullelkklr View Post
    What were the size of the fish? Age of the fish? Sample size of the population that were tracked?

    Do you have any information on the tracking devices?

    pretty cool stuff.
    Nothing terribly hi-tech as far as surveillance... simply the recovery of coded wire tags from fish purposely harvested in established salmon fisheries and incidentals wasted as by-catch in trawl fisheries for pollock and other bottomfish.
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    one thing to note is that ALL the CWT tagging being done right now is of hatchery raised kings, so these fish could be ninilchick, spit hole, halibut cove lagoon, seldovia.. there might be a couple others.
    i don't think there has been a smolt trap in deep creek since maybe '98, and the last king tagging on the kenai river was around then too, as far as i know.
    i worked CWT recovery for F&G in the king salmon tagging studies, and i was done in 2000-2001, and the reason the position ended was that there were no longer any tagged wild stock expected to return.
    in the entire time i did CWT the only kenai king tag i recovered was from a 50-60 pound fish caught by a tourist on halibut gear, out by the barrens.
    also, when they were tagging smolts on the kenai the number tagged was a minute fraction of the cohort, couple that with the high mortality rate in the salt and the number of tags out there was pretty darn small.
    a big part of the smolt capture program on the kenai was for mark/recapture estimates of total smolt numbers.
    for instance they could tag say 1000 smolt, then take them upstream a few miles and release them. by looking for tagged fish in the smolt trap it would be possible to get an idea of what percentage of hat thousand fish were recaptured, and that would give you a way to estimate the total run number.
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    Its no wonder they hang around Kodiak and the chain. The amount of feed in the water there is tremendous. I used to fly around Kodiak and also boat around for work and play. The amount of needlefish, herring and other bait fish is tremendous. I saw a group of kings in Danger Bay on Afognak pin a ball of herring up against the rocks just go to town. One of the coolest things I've seen on the water.
    The only thing I did see was the amount of juvenile chinook that get squished in a trawl. There is no way they get a count on 16" kings that get caught up with a trawl of pollock.
    There are some big kings caught around Kodiak in the spring that I bet are headed for the Kenai. But spring time weather makes fishing for them a tough bet.

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    Member MRFISH's Avatar
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    Default bycatch information

    There's stock ID information on Bering Sea trawl bycatch of kings in the new draft EIS (a huge document, 700+ pages):
    http://www.fakr.noaa.gov/sustainable...ch/default.htm

    In 2006 and 2007, the Chinook bycatch in the Bering Sea pollock fishery was about 82,000 and 120,000 kings, respectively. Those were anomolous years...the bycatch usually ranges between 15-60K annually, with the 9 years prior (97-05) average being 38,891. And, the 2008 bycatch was about 17K.

    From what I saw in the EIS about the Cook Inlet (all stocks) proportion of the Chinook bycatch, there were three different studies over the years that came out with estimates ragning from 4% to 17% to 31%. The most recent one (Seeb et al 2008, with study years 2005-2007) had the 4% estimate. The largest stock grouping is western AK kings (Bristol Bay, Kusko and Yukon, predominantly) at 50-60%.

    The North Pacific Fishery Management Council (NPFMC) has been working on a proposal to place new restrictions on the pollock fishery for Chinook bycatch. They're planning to take final action on it at the April 2009 meeting. Right now, their "preliminary preferred alternative" invokes a hard cap (which closes to pollock fishery if it's reached in any year) with two options: 47,591 or 68,392 Chinook. Obviously, the pollock industry is pushing for the cap to be high, western Alaska and other concerned folks are pushing to have it lower (many advocating for a cap even lower than 47K).

    The NPFMC's website is http://www.fakr.noaa.gov/npfmc/ there's more information on the Chinook bycatch issue in there, as well as information about submitting comments.

    Happy reading!
    Art.

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    Default It's not always as it seems on the surface

    HomerDave is absolutely right. The vast majority of CWT's are implanted into hatchery releases. Unless there is a specific research project going on, wild fingerlings are typically NOT collected for the purpose of mass-implantion of CWT's.

    What the chart reveals is that CWT recoveries from hatchery fish originating from Deception Creek can give us an idea of where Willow Creek fish go. Crooked Creek recoveries tell us where Kasilof fish go. Same with Ninilchik stock. Kings originating in other streams with pure or predominantly wild production do NOT show up in the chart.

    What the chart really reveals is the location of established intercept fisheries where these hatchery stocks are probably being harvested in significant numbers along with their wild counterparts from the same drainage.

    For now the oceanic roamings of wild Kenai kings shall remain a secret... that is, until mass DNA sampling becomes routine.
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  13. #13

    Default Oh boy

    No high water 4 years ago, no deep freeze on the spawning beds, no northern pike issues
    (I book 1000+ hours fishing every summer, there not an issue-yet) HMMMMM so lets see poor survivorship in the big sea your dam right! Lets do alittle experiment lets shut down the Commercial fleet for several years like the Deshka and see how things go. Hundreds of thousands of sport license sold and if we all had one issue how about fish! Next time a Juneauite asks for a vote, ask them for a fish. Sara asked for mine and all I got was a broken promiss in return.

    I'm sad for Alaska the deep pockets rule.

    Please do not reply with pages of stats, I wouldn't use it in the out house.

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