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Thread: Per Forum Rules

  1. #1

    Question Per Forum Rules

    Isn't Polaris a business? Albeit a very large business. Is it permissable to allow the Polaris Bashing on the ATV Forum? I notice a couple of moderators are involved in the ongoing threads doling out the public lambasting on the internet on this website. I fail to see how this type of thread is allowed, when others are being deleted for the same type of discussion. Does the Webmaster agree with me? Can the negative threads be deleted, before reputations are destroyed or lawsuits are filed? A business cannot possibly defend itself here and in fact may or maynot even know they are being trashed publicly on the forum. Just a thought as I read the rules, seems to be a lot of negativity being leveled in every direction. I am not being facetious nor vindictive. Just attempting to acertain what can continue and what has to go away.

  2. #2

    Default

    Watch out we don't want to see anyone get sued over such a public bashing....maybe just provide a link to a magazine that reviews the machine in there publication. If people REALLY want to know what faults these machines have they should be prepared to do some homework.....I have a lot of friends who work for Polaris and I would hate to see them lose there jobs as a result of the mudslinging against Polaris.....

  3. #3
    Member Kurt S's Avatar
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    Default

    There's quite a distinction between a public trial of an individual and the "opinion" of an atv. How many threads are posted with the subject line of "what's your opinon of xxx"? It's really what these forums are about, opinons, which result in information which one can hopefully make an informed decision.
    Fords, Chevy's Dodges etc are debated far and wide, why not ATV's? As long as the conversation is kept civil on a personal basis, there is nothing wrong with expressing opinions. You may not like em, nor agree with them, but in this country, we have that freedom.
    To suggest that we on this little forum will sway Polaris is most likely stretching things to the wildest extreme. Perhaps you have never filled out a survey put out by most of these large business's such as Polaris. They would like to know and although one would like to think it has an influence on deficincies in their products and see some corrective action taken, it's not always the case. There's a lot of things that most people don't know that goes on in the background as to why some of these companies do what they do.
    For instance...there is a requirement when working on US gov bases and employing the use of ATV's, that they have seat belts. How many of these side by sides have seatbelts? Most actually but a Polaris has a bench seat and can belt in 3 people. That is why you will see more contractors using Polaris side by sides than any other brand...not because they think they are the best machine, but simply because you can carry more workers seat belted in and meet a gov requirement.
    Patents play a big role as well. One company patents a "system" and the others can't use it until those patents expire, they licence the system, or they come up with a better mouse trap. That is why joe public often scratches his head and asks why brand X doesn't go to a certain system that has proven to be better.
    I could go on, but, you get the drift. Getting rid of these types of discussions serves no one.

    Kurt

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    All that I have stated about Polaris is the facts of what I have been through after paying $8,000.00 for thier product in which has not functioned properly for nearly the entire 17 months that I have owned it. Nothing I have said is fictional or made up. I am not trying to bash Polaris but rather let others know of my problem so that can either avoid it, resolve thier problem, or help me resolve mine. I will say this, Polaris has been good with the lip service but very poor with delivery.
    Dave

  5. #5

    Default

    There's nothing wrong with whats being said in that thread, there are forums all over the web that are dedicated to atv's and the bashing goes on all the time. It comes with the territory.

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    If we were trashing a specific Polaris dealer that would be against the rules, trashing Polaris in general is totally acceptable.Its not any different than trashing by brand, a pair of boots that fell apart on a hunt, raingear that leaks, a backpack that broke, a sleping bag that left you freezing,or a scope that fogged up!

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    Default

    Just to be fair. Yamaha sucks.

  8. #8

    Default Brand Bashing

    I personally see no difference between an individual being bashed, a group being bashed or a business being bashed. A careful reading of the threads throughout this forum needs to be accomplished and the rules applied equatably. Fair play is just that. Otherwise one can obtain hypocritical status real quick. To allow negative comments such as is the case, contridicts the rules. I don't care about "Polaris", I am just trying to understand how the rules are applied. Per the rules, only positive comments can be posted about a company. Yet I see negative posts and wonder why. There are plenty of other websites one can go to if they want to hear of the negative aspects of a given company. Defamation is just that. If a person wants to find out how ATVs or any other product is rated, they can do there homework and dig into to some of the more seedy websites on the internet. I seriously think local dealers can be directly affected by a loss of income and reputation by there products being bashed. Individuals lose there jobs, small time dealers close down. Imagine how the local dealer really feels when he reads this forum. Does he use this info to better the product? That logic does not pass the common sense test.

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    Akres, I dont come to forums like this one just with the intentions of bashing a specific product(Polaris). However this is a place of opinions and although some may make up stories, would you not want to hear real world situations and experience with a product you may potentially purchase? I know I would. You got some good things being said and the bad too. Its each individuals option to take the good with the bad they hear before buying something. Its not any different than the leupold vs ?, or Winchester vs Rem, and so on. I came to this forum for help in deciding what outboard to put on my river boat this past spring some brands got trashed and others praised, either way I appreciated all feedabck received.They are just products that are receiving both good and bad feedback. Dont be so sensitive, let me guess your a Polaris guy?

  10. #10

    Default Reason for forums

    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    Akres, I dont come to forums like this one just with the intentions of bashing a specific product(Polaris). However this is a place of opinions and although some may make up stories, would you not want to hear real world situations and experience with a product you may potentially purchase? I know I would. You got some good things being said and the bad too. Its each individuals option to take the good with the bad they hear before buying something. Its not any different than the leupold vs ?, or Winchester vs Rem, and so on. I came to this forum for help in deciding what outboard to put on my river boat this past spring some brands got trashed and others praised, either way I appreciated all feedabck received.They are just products that are receiving both good and bad feedback. Dont be so sensitive, let me guess your a Polaris guy?
    Nope. Honda guy. Wouldn't own a Polaris ATV on a bet. Even had opportunities to get em for free. No way am not I that foolish, I want the best product I can get for my money. One can go to Consumer Reports for data concerning their decision process. Bottom line is if the forum rules are to be applied, they should be applied throughout the site. Individuals are being economically affected by negative reviews of their products. Can you see how a salesman or mechanic working for a Polaris dealership might feel if he or she were to come to this site and read the posts. I would think they might start looking for different job pretty quick.

  11. #11
    Member Kurt S's Avatar
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    Akers,

    "I seriously think local dealers can be directly affected by a loss of income and reputation by there products being bashed. Individuals lose there jobs, small time dealers close down. Imagine how the local dealer really feels when he reads this forum. Does he use this info to better the product? That logic does not pass the common sense test."

    So, what you're saying is, a dealer can sell you something, treat you like crap and carry on like it's acceptable? There are dealers out there that will bend over backwards to treat the customers who make them a living, right. There are also dealers out there that don't.
    Polaris is a big player, and if they/or their dealers are not putting out a reliable product, not giving the customer the service they tout in their literature, or not treating the customer with the respect they should, they deserve to suffer. THAT is what makes them take notice and correct the problem.
    I certainly hope that Polaris, Honda, Yamaha or any dealers out there, read this and get on their respective reps and work to correct the problems. To give them a free pass is not the answer. These atv's are expensive, hell, you can buy a Hyundi for less than some of them....we're not talking Tonka here.

    Kurt

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt S View Post

    we're not talking Tonka here.

    Kurt

    Back in my days as a kid(early 60's) Tonka was the best buy for the money. Ford and GM could not keep up with them in the durability department.

  13. #13
    Member Kurt S's Avatar
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    Default

    Yes, they were, the best! Had a yellow dump truck, a cat, and something else..can't remember.. Wonder what they would cost in todays dollars..if they were still built the same?.

    Kurt

  14. #14

    Default Read the title of the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt S View Post
    Akers,

    "I seriously think local dealers can be directly affected by a loss of income and reputation by there products being bashed. Individuals lose there jobs, small time dealers close down. Imagine how the local dealer really feels when he reads this forum. Does he use this info to better the product? That logic does not pass the common sense test."

    So, what you're saying is, a dealer can sell you something, treat you like crap and carry on like it's acceptable? There are dealers out there that will bend over backwards to treat the customers who make them a living, right. There are also dealers out there that don't.
    Polaris is a big player, and if they/or their dealers are not putting out a reliable product, not giving the customer the service they tout in their literature, or not treating the customer with the respect they should, they deserve to suffer. THAT is what makes them take notice and correct the problem.
    I certainly hope that Polaris, Honda, Yamaha or any dealers out there, read this and get on their respective reps and work to correct the problems. To give them a free pass is not the answer. These atv's are expensive, hell, you can buy a Hyundi for less than some of them....we're not talking Tonka here.

    Kurt
    Kurt,
    I am not saying that at all. I am saying there are plenty of other places to go other than here, to find out the kind of information you dipict in your post. But per forum rules, I don't think this is the place. I could be wrong though, as it is the decision of the Webmaster that will be gospel. If you want to find out about a given poduct or business, go to the Attorney General, Consumer Reports, BBB or a host of those sites. Negative reviews, bashing, lambasting or reporting bad experiences about a specific model or make might be considered libelous. If you want to say "some ATV's are junk", that to me would be OK. But to say a Polaris is junk, might not. I like others are watching to see how the rules are going to be applied in the future.

  15. #15
    Member Kurt S's Avatar
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    Default

    I do know what you're saying, but don't agree. I wouldn't be opposed to specific dealerships being cited here, good and bad, I would draw the line on specific individuals however. It would benifit you, me, and the dealer to know what they are doing right, and what they need to work on. We have many posts on recommended air services, guides, etc, and that is very helpful. Should we ignore the bad apples? Again, as long as it's kept civil, I don't see where it violates anything.
    There will always be people that *****, moan, complain and blame the product, the dealer and everyone else for their machine problems caused by themselves. Those tend to weed themselves out.
    The bbb, reviews, and legal avenues really don't help me, all have hidden agenda's or interests.

    Kurt

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    Guys its a legal issue that is why the forum does not allow advertising of written slander against a business or individual they can be rightly sued. here is the specifics from the forum

    "We do not permit negative comments about individuals, businesses or organizations. If a question is posted about a business, it is best to respond privately. The issue is one of liability for us. These forums are a public service, and we are unwilling to deal with the potential for litigation that could destroy our business. The easiest answer for us is "no negative comments." If you have had a bad experience, simply indicate that you have had experience with the company in question and invite people to contact you privately. "

    "Here's a way you can deal with this. If you have positive information, post away. But if you have had a bad experience with a company or organization, just say that, and invite people to message you through the system for more details.

    I realize this is confining, but having had recent experience with a very unhappy company (not an advertiser at the time), I can assure you that this rule will be staying intact.

    The reality is that there are bad businesses operating in Alaska, right alongside the good. It would be great to be able to be open and complete about that in this venue. But it is also a reality that some people want to use these forums for revenge, when the problem may have been largely or even totally their fault. We don't have the resources to sort these situations out; thus the rule"

    This is from the webmaster. We are talking a about a manufacturer of a product and the quality of the product. If you could buy the product directly from them then yes, but on the large scale they play at you would have to bash one of their retailers to cross the line.

  17. #17

    Default What?

    Opinions do matter and should be able to be expressed. Allowing just positive comments about any brand or even specific businesses would be making this site a commercial for everything. If the poster can back up why they said something negative it should be allowed (sorry AlleninAK :-)
    If the manufacturers care about the public's perception of them and their products they are watching these forums. If they don't care.. shouldn't we know that also??
    Mike
    www.alaskaatvclub.org
    There is a faster way off the mountain, might hurt a little though.

  18. #18
    Member Kurt S's Avatar
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    Wink

    Ok, how's this;

    Tonka...wow, the best toy in the world, can't be beat.

    On Polaris, can't say, no comment, they came in second against another competitor in a two machine contest. Contact me privately, I'm sure they made A good one.


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    Default geez,,,feelings ,,nothing more then feelings.

    Just because one bashes a product and someone else reads it,doesnt mean said reader is gonna take all the bashing for the truth.You'd be a fool for that.You have to make your own mind on a product.Plenty of yahoos on here that ride there machine into the dirt ,,and blame something braking on poor quality.Most people are just running there mouth..Make up your own minds..By the way ,,i own a Suzuki....Omg...someone said there crap..I need to go out and sell this junker.

  20. #20
    Member Kurt S's Avatar
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    Talking

    Oh come on now, the Suzuki's are fine machines! Why, just the other day I saw a whole crowd of Suzuki enthusiats lined up at the door, waving at the counter guy. Don't understand why they all were holding up one finger...maybe it's a thing with them, but none the less...
    Oh, and they had a big sign up, rear bearings on SALE, 4 fer 1 I think it said.

    Now, I'm going to go out and pull that piece of crap tire they said was good in Lite Mud, off my pos with two seats, a horned animal on the hood and a bunch of Y's all over it.

    Kurt

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