Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 71

Thread: What is your home defense load

  1. #1
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default What is your home defense load

    For my family it is a 12 guage loaded full of #6 or 7 1/2.

  2. #2

    Default

    Three yellow labs, they will lick any intruder to death

  3. #3
    Member AK_Stick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wasilla AK (for now)
    Posts
    165

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    For my family it is a 12 guage loaded full of #6 or 7 1/2.

    Terrible choice, birdshot is crap for stopping people.



    Mine is 124 grain gold dots for the 9mm and 5.56 for the glock, and AR

  4. #4
    Member polarisblake's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Wa-stupid
    Posts
    108

    Default

    I would have to agree with Lujon. Trust me someone gets even one pellet in them they will re-think what they are doing (at least enough time to pump another in them). Besides then you don't have to worry about a perfect shot or the round going into your kids room. Thumbs up for the scatter gun!!!

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairbanks
    Posts
    266

    Thumbs up

    I think LuJons choice is excellent for up close and pesonal defense, using the #6 or #7.5 because it can be contained to the immediate area and not go beyond that boundary outside the target.

    I keep a medium cal revolver nearby and a semi auto 22 pistol.

  6. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Wasilla
    Posts
    80

    Default

    Just a comment from watching some shooting shows on tv today:

    Favorite door breeching loads are #7 bird shot...for shooting door locks off door jambs and hinges off doors. Yes, they will hurt someone inside your home.

    Another show showed collateral damage done through three walls...sheetrocked on both sides. The 9mm jacketed hp was worst, passed through all three walls...look out kids! The shotgun with buck shot went through two walls, as I recollect. And the 45 ACP was actually the safest regarding collateral damage...assuming you miss the perp using all three different weapons. Most likely, you will miss if multiple shots are taken...unless you are highly trained.

  7. #7

  8. #8
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    11,415

    Default

    I have never been shot but I have been shot at... The only thought on my mid during the latter was maintaining the former!

    On the TV show "the best defense" today they tested a 9mm, 45, .223, and a shotgun with bird shot confirmed my choice for me. They tested each shooting through several simulated walls set up to simulate a house (bedrooms, hallways). The 9mm was the most effective at punching straight through all the walls, the 45 was slowed substantially and deviated a fair amount but made it through. The .223 deviated drastically and I can say that there is no way you could discharge one in your house and have any idea where the round would end up, the surprise is that it seemed to break up more which is most likely due to it impacting a wall beyond the rounds designed velocity. They did not state whether they were using frangible rounds or not but they may be a better choice. The last round was bird shot, the bird shot was stopped by the second wall which simulated shooting from a bedroom across a hallway and into another bedroom. They also shot a dummy at 10 feet and the damage was significant, and would have likely been fatal. I have seen more bullet wound x-rays than most inner city ER docs I couldn't imagine the work it would be for a doc to fix the damage caused by 350 pellets in the chest cavity.

    The most important thing for me with a family of 5 living in my house is that I end the threat and I don't hurt any of them.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    I have never been shot but I have been shot at... The only thought on my mid during the latter was maintaining the former!

    On the TV show "the best defense" today they tested a 9mm, 45, .223, and a shotgun with bird shot confirmed my choice for me. They tested each shooting through several simulated walls set up to simulate a house (bedrooms, hallways). The 9mm was the most effective at punching straight through all the walls, the 45 was slowed substantially and deviated a fair amount but made it through. The .223 deviated drastically and I can say that there is no way you could discharge one in your house and have any idea where the round would end up, the surprise is that it seemed to break up more which is most likely due to it impacting a wall beyond the rounds designed velocity. They did not state whether they were using frangible rounds or not but they may be a better choice. The last round was bird shot, the bird shot was stopped by the second wall which simulated shooting from a bedroom across a hallway and into another bedroom. They also shot a dummy at 10 feet and the damage was significant, and would have likely been fatal. I have seen more bullet wound x-rays than most inner city ER docs I couldn't imagine the work it would be for a doc to fix the damage caused by 350 pellets in the chest cavity.

    The most important thing for me with a family of 5 living in my house is that I end the threat and I don't hurt any of them.
    I'm with you on the 12 gauge #6's. I don't want overpentration through walls. And if the first load of pellets doesn't stop them (and it's hard to imagine it won't), the one behind it will. I'm using low base loads in a cylinder choke, and you can rack through a magazine full of those so fast it will make your head spin. And each one of those is 440 grains at over 1100 fps. Almost no recoil and recovery time.

    And that cylinder barrel is opening nicely the length of a room, so I figure I've got a better chance of connecting than with my handguns. I'm a handgunner of long experience and considerable fast shooting skill. I've got handguns handy, just in case I can't get to the shotgun in time. But give me half a moment to prepare and grab what I want, and it'll be that rattly old 12 gauge pump every single time.

  10. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    1,462

    Default

    The sound of a pump shotgun racking a round is a puckering moment for anyone with a pulse, so I've got one on hand. However, my handgun(s) are usually more handy (pun intended) and they are chambered in 357 SIG.

    BTW, our kids are grown and gone, and we live on an acre in the woods.

  11. #11
    Member aknewbie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ft. Richardson
    Posts
    175

    Default All for a shotgun!!!

    A shotgun is hands down the best choice for home defense IMHO, and #4's or 6's being the most effective up close- especially with a smooth bore slug barrel, or the most open choke you have. If you have any doubts just look at a pattern at 20 feet- it'll change your mind. My choice is a 2 3/4" 1oz #6 in a 20ga 870 express jr.

    #1. It is my wifes shotgun so it is nice and short- 12 1/2" LOP and 21" barrel- it is VERY quick

    #2. I use a light load so there isnt much recoil so you can get back on really fast- no need for 3" heavy loads up close like that. The extra recoil is just a handicap

    #3. If for some chance the bad guy survives, he has to live with the fact that he got spanked with a PINK shotgun! Like I said, it is my wifes and it says "Shoot like a girl...... If you can" on the stock.

  12. #12
    Member AK_Stick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Wasilla AK (for now)
    Posts
    165

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    I have never been shot but I have been shot at... The only thought on my mid during the latter was maintaining the former!

    On the TV show "the best defense" today they tested a 9mm, 45, .223, and a shotgun with bird shot confirmed my choice for me. They tested each shooting through several simulated walls set up to simulate a house (bedrooms, hallways). The 9mm was the most effective at punching straight through all the walls, the 45 was slowed substantially and deviated a fair amount but made it through. The .223 deviated drastically and I can say that there is no way you could discharge one in your house and have any idea where the round would end up, the surprise is that it seemed to break up more which is most likely due to it impacting a wall beyond the rounds designed velocity. They did not state whether they were using frangible rounds or not but they may be a better choice. The last round was bird shot, the bird shot was stopped by the second wall which simulated shooting from a bedroom across a hallway and into another bedroom. They also shot a dummy at 10 feet and the damage was significant, and would have likely been fatal. I have seen more bullet wound x-rays than most inner city ER docs I couldn't imagine the work it would be for a doc to fix the damage caused by 350 pellets in the chest cavity.

    The most important thing for me with a family of 5 living in my house is that I end the threat and I don't hurt any of them.


    A dummy, is not a good representation of a person. And birdshot, is TERRIBLE for stopping people. There is a very good reason that police units choose 00Buck, and it is NOT because bird shot does a good job.

    Having seen someone shot with bird shot, it makes a mess, but doesn't ensure deep enough penetration to kill. It might stop someone, but then again, you might just hit them and piss them off too......

    I prefer a tested round that will put someone down with a hit to center mass, not something that won't reliably do it. No. 4 buck is as light as you should go.

  13. #13
    Member Bear Buster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    EAGLE RIVER, ALASKA
    Posts
    461

    Default

    12 Gauge 000 Buck..Slug..000 Buck..Slug..000 Buck
    That should do the trick.
    "Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Anchorage
    Posts
    505

    Default There is real research available:

    TV shows are good entertainment, but even the best efforts at answering questions produced by networks funded by advertising dollars pale in comparison to real research.

    Look up the Hatcher tests of 1904. They shot cadavers and analyzed the wounds.

    Read the Strasbourg tests. They shot live goats (as a substitute for human testees).

    Get Marshall and Sanow's book (Compiled results and analysis of real-world police-involved shootings) which compiles data to rate the vaious cartridges for their percentage of one-shot stops. Or visit their web site.

    Read Martin Fackler (but be aware that he was a batlefield surgeon, which exposed him to military ammo, and not so much to hollowpoints, etc. Still his analysis of wound ballistics is seminal.)

    My personal point of view is to discount the validity of ballistic gelatin, wet newspapers, water jugs etc as substitutes for flesh, but plenty of people regard testing in those media as informative.

    Do real research and pick the biggest, best thing you can shoot well.

    As has been stated by other posters, for home use, a telephone, tactical flashlight and a pump action shotgun is ten times better than any handgun. Call 911. Use the flashlight tactically (yes, there are tactics to using a light). A 12 gauge shotgun has infinitely better stopping power than the best handguns (that top out at 1/2") and is much easier to shoot well.

    It has been said many times (so much so that I do not know the original author) that a handgun is what you use to fight your way back to your REAL weapon.

    For home defense, get yourself and your family into a "safe room" where you will be keeping a 12-gauge or 16-gauge pump action shotgun. There is only one thing more compelling toward a hasty exit than the sound of a pump shotgun's closing bolt. If that sound comes from behind a closed door, no sane criminal will ever open that door. And if he does, an 18" shotgun is a lot easier to shoot straight and true than any handgun. The right loads can also be selected that won't penetrate your exterior walls to endanger your neighbors (or responding police).

    The second, better, tool for home defense (and even away from home, too) is a dog in the 75-150 lb range. The right species (of which there are many), will be good with the kids, protective of the home (whether you are home or not), intimidating to evildoers even on the street or parking lot, yet not so alarming to anti-gun types. They make good burglar alarms that never need batteries and are possibly the only thing more intimidating than the shotgun behind the door thing. They also have other benefits, like; They are good exercise, excellent psychiatrists, ans allow the children to learn about raising a being who is dependent on them, unselfishness, responsibility, loyalty, and a different kind of love than family bonds. Just remember, that the amount you practice with your handgun, you should also invest in training with your dog. They will love you for it.

    One more thing. You can warm your toes under a sleeping dog. Not a good idea under a loaded gun.

    Having said all that, I will confess that I do not have a dog, children or shotgun. I do have 4" and 6" GP100s and 2 1/4" and 2 3/4" .357 SP101s (and a 4" .22 RF SP101), but my house gun is a 6" Ruger Security Six loaded with Glaser Safety Slugs. I like the .45ACP also.

    Remember, only believe half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for what you get from the internet. Even this post.

    Good Luck, I hope this has helped.

    Lost Sheep

  15. #15
    Member Eastwoods's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Southern Tier, New York
    Posts
    430

    Default

    16 guage pump with #6. The farthest shot would likely be 20 feet, more likely to be 10 feet or less. As a kid I marveled at how I could cut down 2" saplings with bird shot a close range.
    In a fast adrenaline pumping senario, I don't know if I could be cognizant as to which walls do not lead to family members. So, my hand guns and rifles stay in the safe.

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Kodiak
    Posts
    650

    Default Pistols

    Hand guns are just fine for fighting your way to the 12 gauge with 00.

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Missoula, MT
    Posts
    448

    Default

    Mine is a 45 acp with 185 gr hollow points. Shotguns are great but kind of big and conspicuous.

    As I have said before, I have participated in a number of autopsies and the 45 is the "best". Have not done any autopsies on shotgun deaths. Have seen a couple of shotgun suicides; ugly.

    Practice with what you carry and shotguns require less practice. JMO. J.

  18. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
    A dummy, is not a good representation of a person. And birdshot, is TERRIBLE for stopping people. There is a very good reason that police units choose 00Buck, and it is NOT because bird shot does a good job.

    Having seen someone shot with bird shot, it makes a mess, but doesn't ensure deep enough penetration to kill. It might stop someone, but then again, you might just hit them and piss them off too......

    I prefer a tested round that will put someone down with a hit to center mass, not something that won't reliably do it. No. 4 buck is as light as you should go.
    I've actually got worthwhile firsthand experience on this. I was sitting in a makeshift duck blind when taking a break from deer hunting on a remote part of Kodiak back in the days of lead shot. A really nice 3-pointer walked down on the other side of the narrow inlet, waded in and started swimming toward me. It came right through my handful of decoys and waded out about 20 feet away.
    Using my load of 1 1/4 ounce of #5 lead shot, I whacked him high in the neck right where it joins the head, figuring I could always dump two more in him before he got out of range. No need. It pretty well took his head off, leaving it connected only by the wind pipe and a thread of hide in front. Everything else behind that including the spine was completely gone.

    Dang, they're making people tough these days, if that's not enough!!!!!

    Use what you want, but TERRIBLE is a real good description of the wound channel and stopping power of 12 gauge bird shot at the ranges you'll be shooting in your house, no matter what handgun theorists say. Been there, done that, and made my own close range wound channel with bird shot. I love my handguns and shoot them better than most, but when my family is on the other side of a wall, I'm using bird shot. Easy decision!!!!

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jtm9 View Post
    Hand guns are just fine for fighting your way to the 12 gauge with 00.
    Exactly.

    I load 3 buckshot followed by 4 slugs. The slugs are for when someone thinks they can take refuge behind something solid that the 00 won`t penetrate.

    I can comment from experience that .357 magnum makes for a poor house gun and does alot of extra penentration.

    That said I use a G29 with to assure I`ll get to the 870.

  20. #20

    Default Urban

    The are few more devastateing loads at household ranges than a shotgun with #4-#6 shot. The pattern acheived isn't as big a a person would expect, even with a cylinder choke.A shotgun pattern should spread about 1/2 inch per meter, for the first 5 meters w/ a cylinder bore. Most houses would have shots no longer than 30 feet. Most patterning is done with a 36" circle at 25 and 40 yards . A modern turkey type shotgun using rifle sights will decimate a turkeys head (about the size of a mans fist) at 20 yds. At household ranges, I use a 12 ga turkey load, 1 1/4 oz of #4 lead in my 12 ga 1100 SKEET B, at 5 steps it makes a hole that looks like a rat ate a hole in somebodies torso; Seen that (got a buddy in the MEs office). I ain't racking a shotgun; That means it was unloaded in the first place, BASICALLY a big stick.
    Spread is caused by the wad/filer used almost as much as the choke. Heavier shot is nearly always put in a tighter shooting wad than lighter shot, thereby concentrateing the pattern at longer ranges for heavier birds(turkey,ducks,geese,cranes).Some/not all buckshot loads don't have a wad, just an overpowder card or spacer.Allowing for a larger group at closer ranges, w/ reduced group concentration downrange.
    Shotgun ammo is like 30-06 ammo, there's one for almost every practical need;but you my not always have the one you want at the right time.
    Pistols are what you use to get to your shotgun or while you are reloading your shotgun.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •