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Thread: 180 gr. Nosler, 30-06, Grizzly?

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    Default 180 gr. Nosler, 30-06, Grizzly?

    If hit in the heart-lung area with a 180 grain Nosler Partition® fired from a .30-06, the bullet will pass completely through a mature bull moose, interior grizzly, or black bear.
    That quote is taken from the following link:
    http://wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm...laska.firearms

    A Non-bonded bullet, w/SD of .271, traveling @ 2700, will pass completely through a Grizz?

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    depending on how big the griz was, how long the shot, and if you hit any bone it is quite possible. If you tried to bust shoulders then probably not. I know that it will pass through on a moose if shot behind the shoulder straight through the ribs.

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    Default 180 gr. '06

    With luck you'll do great

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    Much depends on the range the bear is shot at. An average interior grizzly squares somewhere around 7 1/2'. I shot a black bear that squared 7' and some change at 200 yards with a 30-06, 180 Partition handloaded to 2700 at the muzzle. 3 out of 4 shots passed through, the one that didnt retained somewhere around 60-65%. This year I shot a Brownie that squared 8' 4", again with a 30-06 but this time with a 180 Hornady Interlock handloaded to 2725. Bear was shot at about 80 yards, in the liver (yeah I know, not ideal shot placement). I found that bullet in the far side of the hide in-between the fat and skin. It retained 75% of its weight.

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    The next step in bullet construction and bullet complexity is the “partitioned” bullet. These include the Nosler Partition®, the Swift A-Frame®, and the Trophy Bonded Bear Claw®. These bullets all share a common feature. They all have a tapered jacket that is “H” shaped (see picture). The cross-bar of the “H” is a part of the jacket itself. Each end of the “H” is filled with lead, a lead alloy, or tungsten alloy. These bullets are designed to expand quickly at the front but never expand below the cross-bar of the “H.” In theory, this should be the best of both worlds. Excellent expansion to destroy tissue and a protected core that will insure deep penetration. How do these bullets work in the field?


    In a word, outstanding! They work about as well in real life as in theory. If a moose, elk, caribou, or even brown bear is hit in the heart-lung vital area, these ultra-tough bullets often exit on the opposite side, leaving a better blood trail and ensuring a double-lung hit. The only negative of these fine premium bullets is cost. A box of factory loads with Nosler®, Swift®, or Trophy Bonded® bullets typically costs twice as much or more than a box with conventional bullets. To sum up firearm, cartridge, and ammunition selection — you can’t go wrong with a stainless steel bolt action rifle chambered for a standard cartridge that you are comfortable with and can shoot accurately, loaded with a high quality bullet.

    This article is among the most ridiculous I've ever read and I've read it many times. It makes as much sense with the bullets as with the rifles. "I can kill a bear with a 243 as long as the rifle is a bolt action and stainless and I hit him in the vitals." How would an old blue steel lever action with lead bullets work?

    A gut shot grizz is a gut shot grizz. duh!! But what they don't tell you is that a grizz shot from behind with enough gun/bullet will be hit in the vitals. A exiting shot with lesser calibers will just wound an animal.

    I think the world of the '06 and the 180 partition but I would not and don't know why anyone would select such a caliber for this 1500 Brown bear? If you cannot shoot a bear gun don't go bear hunting. That would be better advice but of course that wouldn't drum up business for the AK F&G.

    Can a very large brown bear be killed with a 30-06. No doubt. Another thing this article considers is that all the bullets mentioned will be essentially the same in performance including the TBBC and the ballistic tip. Not!!

    They attempt to make a point about where the animal is hit but assumes that a broad side shot at a standing and undisturbed animal. Yeah, that'll happen. Oh well it's a start.
    Last edited by Murphy; 01-06-2009 at 14:32.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  6. #6

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    I'm not sure what the aim of this post was exactly, but even though I have never been beer hunting nor ever had to shoot at a bear..."If you cannot shoot a bear gun don't go bear hunting." Exactly. For me it would be 45-70 Govt, only because I'm not a bear hunter nor normally around bears, but can load it for all sorts of game and it still can count against dangerous game.

  7. #7

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    This artiles is a very simplified version of a complicated problem. A 180 Round Nosed barnes solid or Lion Tough DOES NOT penetrate like a 180 Core Lokt bullet. Provideing all variables are right and the gods are smileing both will penetrate and produce adequate results;using an 06'. Turn the bear into the wind in leaveing mode and quartering or Texas Heart shots won't be very successful.
    The tougher heavy jacketed bullets with round nose will give straighter penetration with less deveation from the desired path of travel; especially when breaking bones.
    Firearms are like high-performance car motors, there is no replacement for displacement; all variables being equal. Use the biggest rifle you can shoot accuartely. Beg, or borrow several from friends to see if you can handle that style/caliber; just buy a box of ammo and give the remainder or brass to the person you borrowed it from. If you can't comfortably shoot a box of ammo at the range, consider another rifle.
    By the way interior grizzkies are half the size of coastal grizzlies.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    Not sure what to make of the article other than it is very simplistic. If I used a 30-06 on any big dangerous game I would use a 200gr TSX moving 2680-2710fps. Outside of that due to all kinds of circumstances that could arise in hunting dangerous game including a possible charge at close quarters I would not want to be found using any other load in my 30-06 but the above mentioned load only due to a possible charge.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
    THE MIND OF A SCHOLAR
    THE HEART OF A CHILD
    THE HIDE OF A RHINOCEROS

  9. #9

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    If my opinion is worth $.02, then Murphy's is worth at least $20. I totally agree with the sentiment that if you want to hunt bears, then get a bear gun. OK... so what's a bear gun??? Most of us have read many opinions on that, including some who hunt the big bears with a 270 Win. A little too light weight for me (if I ever get the opportunity to hunt the big bears).When I bought my most recent rifle, I bought it with the thought that I would be hunting griz with it here in Montana. A mature adult here will usually run about 350-500 lbs with the occasional but rare 700-800 pounder. For this reason I decided I would go with a 30 cal magnum and picked a 300 WSM as my all around go-to rifle. This i consider to be my personal *safe* minimum for moderate sized bears and also a good elk round. I would use a 180 gr solid bullet moving out the muzzle at 3000 fps. I agree a 200 or 220 gr bullet woud probably be a better choice, but they loose a lot of peformance in the WSM.

    I think to hope for a complete pass through of a 180 bullet from a 30.06 in a 600 lb griz is possible, but in the best of circumstances. I dont see it happening in a big bear. If I were to come hunting griz in interior Alsaka, I would bring my 300 WSM. If I came hunting big bears, I might still bring my 300 WSM *IF* my guide was OK with it... but I would seriously consider a 338 or 375. Just my typed out loud thoughts.

    Here's an interesting read on a guy who shot a 10 1/2 ft brownie on Kodiak with a 180 AB out of a 300 WSM @ 250 yds.

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/foru...me-does-31021/

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    I don't know but I will toss this video up (both shooter/filmer are members). If I remember correct the bullet of choice was a 180 core lokt. Notice shot placement was perfect and the bullet exited. The video is very shaky but it was take by a couple punk kids who grew up in the interior... Am I advocating cheap ammo for bears? no. Am I advocating using non magnum rifles? no But to the question of shooting through a Griz with an '06 the answer is a simple yes it can. Last time I picked up the book this bear was #11... Certainly bigger than any I am likely to shoot!

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    Default 30/06

    Murphy hit this one right on the nose! African PHs learned this years ago. Thats why I like moose hunters to bring something other than a 270 they might want to take a shot that would require more penatration than the 270 is cabable of.

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    Default How did bears evolve so rapidly to be bullet-proof?

    "A Non-bonded bullet, w/SD of .271, traveling @ 2700, will pass completely through a Grizz?"

    Yes, if it doesn't hit bone.

    The article is promoting hunting skill and accuracy, which do not need power to be effective. "Poor hits" are non-lethal, no matter how strong they are. However, "good hits" can be made with bigger cartridges where smaller ones would fail.

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    Phil Shoemaker (well-known master guide and writer) uses the 30-06 with great success, even on the biggest brown bears, when he's guiding moose and bear hunters each year. Bullet construction and shot placement being the most important factor.

  14. #14

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    GreenTea, you are exactly right!

    There is no substitute for accuracy (shot placement). Case in point my older brother had a $12,000 brown bear hunt go south because he put a 400 grain Partition from a 416 Rigby into the shoulder area (so he says) and the bruin got away. The distance was around 60 yards and the bear was broadside. Probably the kind of shot that "Liver Eating" Johnson dreamt about and no doubt and would have resulted in a 50 caliber ball of some sort landing in the boiler room resulting in one very dead brown bear. Can you imagine the grin on Jeremiah Johnson face if someone would have handed him a 30-06 bolt gun and a box 180 grain fodder.

    Yes indeed the mighty old 06 and 180 grainers are enough gun if in the right hands.

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    What load does Phil Shoemaker use in his '06 when going after big bears?

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    Phil has been known to post here and he very well may be in the area for the Palmer or Wasilla gun shows where I have seem him more than once. Perhaps he will post a response. As I understand it he has pretty much retired his '06 for bear hunting and instead uses a 458 Win - seem a bear tried real hard to do a rumba on his toupee! The bear didn't make it but Phil didn't enjoy the experience and opted to try to obviate a repeat performance.

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    I use 180 gr. Accubonds in my '06. I've killed a few bears with it, and for many years the only hunting rifles I owned were the '06 and a 30-30. Given those choices, when I was hunting bears I used the '06. Nowadays, if I was specifically going after big bears, I would take the 35 Whelen, but I still hunt with both the '06 and the 30-30.

    I don't claim to be a master bear hunter, but I've killed more bears than anything else over the years, and I'd say that 99% of the time if you do your part the '06 will do its part. That other 1%, a bigger gun might or might not make a difference. The real problem is that when the adrenaline is pumping and you may not be able to shoot as well as you would normally, the '06 may not give you the margin for error that something else might (or might not).

    I've been in that situation twice with grizzlies. The first time it resulted in a dead bear that I otherwise would not have shot. What I learned from that experience was that I could keep my head and make the shot when I needed to. There is no way to really know that until you've been there, though. The second time (last moose season) could have been much worse. I ended up between a sow and her cubs before I even realized they were there. Luckily, all of us survived that encounter without any damage to any of us. From my experience, I would say that most of the time if you keep your cool and don't do anything stupid, thats what will happen. My second encounter, I was carrying the 35 Whelen but didn't need to use it. The first time I was carrying something else much smaller (I won't even say what since I don't want to encourage anyone to intentionally try it). It did the job, but I would have been much happier to have the Whelen or even the '06.

    I suppose the bottom line is that you need to think realistically about your abilities in the worst case scenario and realize that you are accepting a certain amount of risk just by getting out of bed in the morning and going hunting. If all you have is an '06, and you can't afford to get anything else you can either accept that it may not be the best possible choice when the chips are down and go anyway, or you can stay home. For me, when the '06 was all I had, staying home wasn't an option. Besides, I happen to think that when your number is up, its up. You might be carrying a 416, but if its your day to go, you're going.
    Last edited by walk-in; 01-08-2009 at 12:34. Reason: added info

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    This year Phil S. was toting around the new Ruger 375 Ruger rifle & cartridge combo with a Leupie 2.5 on top. Another setup that he really likes.

    Any good, well constructed bullet, will do the job. I used a .308 cal 180-grain bonded bullet to kill a brownie this fall. Hit him in the chest and the bullet came out his *****.

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    matt,

    What bullet did you use?

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    Handloaded Swift Scirocco II.

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