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Thread: 44 mag with buffalo bore rounds

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    Default 44 mag with buffalo bore rounds

    Hi, I am new to alaska and was considering buying a 629 S&W trail boss in 44 mag... it has a 3 inch ported bbl ... I am looking for opinions as to whether or not that it would be suitable for stopping a charging grizzly using buffalo bore 305 grain hardcast rounds. Or would bear spray be a better deterrent. As i understand it most charges are engaged at a distance of about 10 yds or so... Any advice would be appreciated

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    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Do a search here with the words "44 mag bear". You'll find that there have been hundreds of opinions already shared, many pro and many con.

  3. #3

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    I know the canadians did a study that says bear spray works better but im not going to trust my life on a condiment. Pistol is better than a stick, large caliber rifle is better than a handgun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK-49 View Post
    Hi, I am new to alaska and was considering buying a 629 S&W trail boss in 44 mag... it has a 3 inch ported bbl ... I am looking for opinions as to whether or not that it would be suitable for stopping a charging grizzly using buffalo bore 305 grain hardcast rounds. Or would bear spray be a better deterrent. As i understand it most charges are engaged at a distance of about 10 yds or so... Any advice would be appreciated

    Ten yards or so!?!

    Well in that case I have to ask are you capable of placing one shot from this little gun into a bouncing 2 1/2" diameter ball moving at 44 feet per second. (bear velocity) You'll have .68 seconds.

    I'm just joshin' ya. Your 3" packable 44 is actually a good idea, I don't like the port, but I like the package. I will tell you that the heavy bullet loads in a short barrel with the H110 powder they are loaded with gives a lot of flash and not so much velocity. You can get the same velocity without the flash and less recoil if handloaded. No commercial operation makes ammo that works well in a 3" 44 barrel. Those loads give about 1000 fps from that gun and that is about all you can get and about as effective as a 44 can be for the application. Carry the gun and practice every week with that ammo.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Quote Originally Posted by akspecialus View Post
    I know the canadians did a study that says bear spray works better but im not going to trust my life on a condiment. Pistol is better than a stick, large caliber rifle is better than a handgun.

    This is not the bear spray forum and NO ONE anywwhere has ever stopped a charging Grizzly at ten yards or less with bear spray.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    This is not the bear spray forum and NO ONE anywwhere has ever stopped a charging Grizzly at ten yards or less with bear spray.
    I really enjoy all your posts Murphy but if caught off guard with a full charging Grizzly at 10 yards or less I don't think you would even have the time to bend over and kiss your ***** goodby.

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    at what distance would one normally engage a charging bear? 40 yds, 30 yds, 20 yds, 10 yds, on top on me?

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    Default My last bear encounter

    Last Aug. if was walking back from fishing on the Russian River with my pole and a fish in one hand and my .500 S&W in the other hand raised but not cocked. It was alte in the afternoon with few people around. I heard a hiss and some growling and turned around to see a bear running across the trail not far behind me. Apparently two bears were facing off right off the trail as I walked past and one turned tail right after I had walked past. If I had been a few seconds later I would have probably been knocked down by the bear as it took off.

    Even with the pistol in my hand, raised and ready I didn't have the time to react to what would have been a threat had the bear been after me instead off hauling ***** to get away from the other bear. It happens so quick I figure the bear will be on top of me before I knew what was happening. I didn't even know the breas were there as I walked just past them even - many times you can smell them especially around the river.

    I'd say 0 yrds and hope the brown bear grabs your foot so you can still shoot it as it starts chewing on you.

    Unlike most brown bear attacks a black bear will occsionally stalk and check you out before they attack. In that case you will have time to prepare and shoot it as it approaches closer. You might have 10 or 15 yards after you determine it is a real threat.


    Quote Originally Posted by AK-49 View Post
    at what distance would one normally engage a charging bear? 40 yds, 30 yds, 20 yds, 10 yds, on top on me?
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    [quote=AK-49;404997]at what distance would one normally engage a charging bear? 40 yds, 30 yds, 20 yds, 10 yds, on top on me?[/quot}

    That's a hellofaquestion...Most charges are bluffs...I have been charged 4 times by griz, they were bluffs and they got within 20 feet or so before breaking off the charge...I shot one black bear at 12 feet that charged me and I knew without a doubt it wasn't a bluff, he would have eaten me if he could...so where do you draw the line...I don't know..I guess it depends on how you feel at the time...???

  10. #10

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    After thought...we create these senerios and then try to determine a course of action...Not all bear charges are going to happen at full speed...I have seen bear charges that were more like a fast walk or trot rather than crossing 50 yards in a few seconds...so go figure...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by akspecialus View Post
    I know the canadians did a study that says bear spray works better but im not going to trust my life on a condiment. Pistol is better than a stick, large caliber rifle is better than a handgun.
    And Dixie Slugs top a large caliber rifle

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    Quote Originally Posted by MagLvr View Post
    And Dixie Slugs top a large caliber rifle
    you like those dixies I can tell

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    I really enjoy all your posts Murphy but if caught off guard with a full charging Grizzly at 10 yards or less I don't think you would even have the time to bend over and kiss your ***** goodby.
    We could be killed being caught off guard crossing the street. Mind set is an important part of self defense. I don't know how effective I'll be stopping a charging grizzly, I know I'll give it a go. Many of us would be totally worthleess in a gun fight, whether it against man or beast, that doesn't mean we should'nt rise to the occasion. The difference between how we think we will be and how effective we actually are when the need arises is called the reality gap. Some of us have a reality gap as big as The Great Land itself. If we train mentally and physically with a gun and practice the scenarios and fully develop the skill set and mindset to survive, that gap narrows. When called upon to act when a charging is coming down upon us at 44 fps, this gap grows exponentially.

    I may one day be found among the bear scat but I take solace in the thought that it will be his last dump.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



  14. #14

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    given the information here I am now reconsidering getting a ruger alaskan in 454.. I don't know what ammo is recommend (cor-bond or buffalo bore perhaps) but want something that is somewhat controllable for follow up rounds if needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK-49 View Post
    given the information here I am now reconsidering getting a ruger alaskan in 454.. I don't know what ammo is recommend (cor-bond or buffalo bore perhaps) but want something that is somewhat controllable for follow up rounds if needed.
    Also a good pick as is the S&W 460 or 500 if you can shoot them and pack them. I went with the S&W 460V and take all the time, it's too heavy for many but I love it. The rule of thumb is the bigger the better, but if itís so big you fear it or heave you leave it in the truck it'd worthless.

    As to spray, a guy I know used some on a bear five foot from him. Well he got the bear good and it ran a couple feet and started wiping his face in the grass, groaning and growling, good right? Wrong!! The wind pushed the fog in the guy's face also, so now he is in the brush bland as a bat with a pi$$ed off bear feet away.
    He's a gun only man now!

    Andy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    We could be killed being caught off guard crossing the street. Mind set is an important part of self defense. I don't know how effective I'll be stopping a charging grizzly, I know I'll give it a go. Many of us would be totally worthleess in a gun fight, whether it against man or beast, that doesn't mean we should'nt rise to the occasion. The difference between how we think we will be and how effective we actually are when the need arises is called the reality gap. Some of us have a reality gap as big as The Great Land itself. If we train mentally and physically with a gun and practice the scenarios and fully develop the skill set and mindset to survive, that gap narrows. When called upon to act when a charging is coming down upon us at 44 fps, this gap grows exponentially.

    I may one day be found among the bear scat but I take solace in the thought that it will be his last dump.
    Gosh Murphy, I was just kidding ya a little - no offense meant if by chance you took it the wrong way. I sense most of us on this site are probably from the same cloth relative to the Great Outdoors. If caught off guard at 10 yards or less with a 600 pound plus mass of muscle closing in at 44 fps with a bad attitude, I would at least have time to call him a SOB and try to land a solid right hand to his nose and if he gives me a second chance to bring my weapon to bear, I won't squander the opportunity.

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    The S&W X-frame is just too heavy for me to lug around for all practical purposes... thats why I am thinking of going the 454 route with the ruger alaskan

    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    Also a good pick as is the S&W 460 or 500 if you can shoot them and pack them. I went with the S&W 460V and take all the time, it's too heavy for many but I love it. The rule of thumb is the bigger the better, but if itís so big you fear it or heave you leave it in the truck it'd worthless.

    As to spray, a guy I know used some on a bear five foot from him. Well he got the bear good and it ran a couple feet and started wiping his face in the grass, groaning and growling, good right? Wrong!! The wind pushed the fog in the guy's face also, so now he is in the brush bland as a bat with a pi$$ed off bear feet away.
    He's a gun only man now!

    Andy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    This is not the bear spray forum and NO ONE anywwhere has ever stopped a charging Grizzly at ten yards or less with bear spray.
    THIS GUY on the Peters Creek trail has stopped a charging Grizzly at ten yards or less with bear spray.

    "The bear was certainly within 20 feet by then."

    http://www.adn.com/bearattacks/story/147318.html
    Last edited by GreenTea; 01-10-2009 at 14:41. Reason: add location

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    Default Thanks for the reference

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Tea
    THIS GUY on the Peters Creek trail has stopped a charging Grizzly at ten yards or less with bear spray.

    "The bear was certainly within 20 feet by then."

    http://www.adn.com/bearattacks/story/147318.html
    Green Tea,

    Thanks for the reference to the Anchorage Daily News story. I missed reading it when it was originally published and was unaware of the incident.

    I recall your post #114 from last spring's thread that wandered onto the subject of bear repellant. It was a good one.

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...003#post273003
    To all who dismiss this incident as merely anecdotal, I will repeat the adage, "All statistics are anecdotal, until there are enough of them."


    Lost Sheep

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    Spray is better than finger nails, I have no doubt that it can work. However, if I were to use spray it would be backed by a 460 in the other hand! I have read about it not working more than I have that it did when it was needed. What others do is not my business and if they want to use spray I wish them the best of luck.

    Andy

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