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Thread: 30-30 or 45-70

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    Member LItoAK's Avatar
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    Default 30-30 or 45-70

    Looking for some input. I am looking at purchasing a Marlin lever action guide gun I like the 45-70 for the stopping power but I don't know if I should get the 30-30 for the extra round. I am planning on using the gun mainly for hiking, fishing protection but I might use it for hunting in the future.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    If it is bear defense then go with the 45-70 it will be over (good or bad) before you ever get to the extra round in the thuty-thuty.

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    Default The Lever Evolution

    Ammunition makes it possible for you to use either. Alot of people have and choose the larger caliber for good reasons, and you will have the edge with the 45-70. But if you shoot the 30-30 well, then go for it.

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    I would get the 45-70. With standard loads, there is minimal recoil and you have the option for heavier loads should you need them.

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    Wow……..

    I have rifles chambered for both of those cartridges and I think I can say with some authority that you are pretty much looking at both ends of the “power” spectrum here. It really boils down to your comfort level and what you anticipate the primary use for the gun to be. If you are paranoid about bear encounters, or travel thru places that an encounter is truly likely with one of the big bruins, then the choice is clear, you simply must go with the 45/70.
    Now, if your not particularly afraid of bears, haven’t seen many in your journeys and would just like to have something other than a hand gun along “just in case” then perhaps the 30-30 is a better choice. After all, when loaded with good bullets, it will often out penetrate many of the big bore hot rod hand guns, and I personally would feel like a 30-30 carbine was WAY more gun than a 5” .44 magnum hand gun. Of course the numbers don’t really back my theory up, and I suppose there will be more than a few on the forum that disagree, but hey……….. that’s what I feel about it.

    My 45-70 Guide Gun used to ride the front of the ATV for one purpose and one purpose ONLY. Bear protection. I don’t hunt with it, I don’t “plink” with it, its whole job in life is to kill an aggressive and dangerous bear should one over pose a problem to myself or my companions……….period.

    My various 30-30’s on the other hand, ride the same ATV and routinely knock over rabbits, ptarmigan, spruce hens, beavers, muskrats, foxes etc. probably a bit overkill, but they are cheap to shoot, have minimal recoil, moderate report, fast handling and ………… they look cool! In a pinch, or with good shot placement within reasonable range, the trusty 30-30 can also handle moose, caribou, black bears, dear and……… if you’re a good shot, brown bears. The same could be said for the 45-70 I suppose, but with FAR more recoil, less range, more expense, more noise and for the small critters, WAY more damaged meat.
    Mind you, there are many folks out there hunting with their 45-70 guide guns, but I aint one of them. For me, its nothing more than a pure defensive tool in a short and handy package. The 30-30 beats it hands down in every single category other than bear protection, and its really WAY more fun to shoot.

    Heck……….. get both! After all, you cant have too many guns!
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    Since you said you plan on using it for hiking/fishing protection with only a possibility of hunting with it in the future, I'd go with the 45-70. If you were wanting a gun primarily for hunting, a case could be made for either one depending on what/how you wanted to hunt. I still occasionally take my 30-30 out black bear hunting, and it does a fine job. However, it sounds like you're not a "gun guy" so you need a gun that can be used as a bear stopper and, secondarily, for hunting. In that case, I'd pick the 45-70 over the 30-30, although neither one would be my first choice.

  7. #7

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    The marlin 336 is also chambered in the 35 Rem, a good short range cartridge, that makes a decent size hole.

  8. #8

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    Big and dangerous defense, 45-70 or 450 Marlin, if not defending against the Big and dangerous, the 30-30 is a cool little gun to carry.
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alangaq View Post
    Wow……..

    I have rifles chambered for both of those cartridges and I think I can say with some authority that you are pretty much looking at both ends of the “power” spectrum here. It really boils down to your comfort level and what you anticipate the primary use for the gun to be. If you are paranoid about bear encounters, or travel thru places that an encounter is truly likely with one of the big bruins, then the choice is clear, you simply must go with the 45/70.
    Now, if your not particularly afraid of bears, haven’t seen many in your journeys and would just like to have something other than a hand gun along “just in case” then perhaps the 30-30 is a better choice. After all, when loaded with good bullets, it will often out penetrate many of the big bore hot rod hand guns, and I personally would feel like a 30-30 carbine was WAY more gun than a 5” .44 magnum hand gun. Of course the numbers don’t really back my theory up, and I suppose there will be more than a few on the forum that disagree, but hey……….. that’s what I feel about it.

    My 45-70 Guide Gun used to ride the front of the ATV for one purpose and one purpose ONLY. Bear protection. I don’t hunt with it, I don’t “plink” with it, its whole job in life is to kill an aggressive and dangerous bear should one over pose a problem to myself or my companions……….period.

    My various 30-30’s on the other hand, ride the same ATV and routinely knock over rabbits, ptarmigan, spruce hens, beavers, muskrats, foxes etc. probably a bit overkill, but they are cheap to shoot, have minimal recoil, moderate report, fast handling and ………… they look cool! In a pinch, or with good shot placement within reasonable range, the trusty 30-30 can also handle moose, caribou, black bears, dear and……… if you’re a good shot, brown bears. The same could be said for the 45-70 I suppose, but with FAR more recoil, less range, more expense, more noise and for the small critters, WAY more damaged meat.
    Mind you, there are many folks out there hunting with their 45-70 guide guns, but I aint one of them. For me, its nothing more than a pure defensive tool in a short and handy package. The 30-30 beats it hands down in every single category other than bear protection, and its really WAY more fun to shoot.

    Heck……….. get both! After all, you cant have too many guns!

    this is so well written that more information is unnecessary! i have a .35 remmarlin guide gun and have killed elk with it (one shot), but as a pure bear stopping rifle it would not be my choice.

    however......accuracy is the most important thing in a defensive situation and that should be your primary concern. a 30-30 is easier to shoot well (natives regularly kill even polar bears with it) than a handgun. both require PRACTICE.

    bear attacks are not common, learn to be aware of your surroundings and area's that may be confrontational. phil shoemaker (famed alaskan guide) has written alot about the subject. i think his positions is the best weapon is between your ears.

    happy trails.
    jh

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    If you want it for Bear protection you should go with the 45-70. I love the 30-30 but would not consider it much for bear protection.

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    the .45-70 hits them alot harder. I never have been "attacked" but have hunted grizz with the .45-70.....it is a fine round for big bruins. I have carried and used both calibers for yrs. and would opt for the .45-70 ..... hands down. Shoot hardcast or the Kodiak bullet in 405 grn....if you reload that is.

    Nothing wrong with the .30-30 either, have 2 of em in my home and prefer either the 170 Partition or a 160 FNGC .309"dia. with some RL15. Do have some 180 hardcast but only have used them on caribou-over penetration but so does the little 150's on Moose at 200 yds. My experience and ymmv.

    I would not be afraid to use the .30-30, my experience is that I am still alive and well-if you keep alert you won't need to use it unless you prefer to take the shot and the .30-30 offers a faster 2nd or 3rd etc......the .45-70 is a handful with stout loads to get a fast 2nd off.

    Whatever you choose, do alot of practicing! I liked the Scout scope mounting on the barrel if the scope is your option. If irons are your cup of tea look into a good rear peep aperture and a fiber optic front-sight acquisition is a must.

    I like the Win. 94 opposed to the Marlin 336 in the .30-30 as it handles nicely and carrys lightly. Winchester also makes a big bore 450 if I am not mistaken. Marlin does make a strong rifle.

    regards,

  12. #12

    Default peep sights and hornady

    [/quote]If irons are your cup of tea look into a good rear peep aperture and a fiber optic front-sight acquisition is a must.[quote]
    Peep sights and hornady's leverevolution ammo. Does'nt matter which caliber you chose this is a must. Sight radius is hugely improved and those hornady loads make these old guns a new breed. I have pulled the trigger twice with these things in the pipe. Yes it was just on little deer, but I hunt in the "brush" (never understood hunting on some big field or opening, want to see a long way, go to a parking lot).They bounce around in a carcass like nothing I have seen before. Two for two, hope the streak contiues. Nothing swings like a 94 in 30-30. practice, practice.

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    Default I've heard everything

    It would make more sense to argue about who's better looking between Marilyn Monroe and Oprah than which is a more useful cartridge here in Alaska

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    Member Alangaq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by logman View Post
    It would make more sense to argue about who's better looking between Marilyn Monroe and Oprah than which is a more useful cartridge here in Alaska
    Hmmmmm........... thats a tought one. are we talking about "thin" Oprah, or "not so thin" Oprah?

    BTW, I still really like my 30-30's for all around AK use more than my 45-70, but I am confused....... which one is Oprah and which one is Marilyn?
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    If you want more rounds in the chamber, and more power than a 45-70, consider the 454 casull the puma lever gun. 9 in the mag, one on the pipe and the 454 driving 360's @ 1700-1800 fps from a 20" barrel, is no pop gun.

  16. #16

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    The 45-70...you mentioned stopping power, a .45cal rifle caliber wins that argument any day at distances where 'stopping' a threat - two or four legged - matters.

    No caliber guarantees a 'stop' but the 45-70 allows for near certainty with all size threats at higher level loadings and yet can be loaded to hunting levels acceptable for medium game-sized animals with good meat retention.

    A round or two extra in the chamber....come on, not even a consideration here. We're not talking warfare combat. In defense against dangerous game, you're only going to get 1-3 shots off MAX with a rifle if even 1 shot and the distances of such defense are well within the effective range of a 45-70 in the average shooter's hand.

    My 45-70 lever has a 9 shot tube. What more do you want.

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    now that Puma of which I have read in the past many times is now rousing some curiosity. Have lots of brass and primers and pwdr ...just need the little rifle. Wonder the reliability of them?

    Don't mind me, just thinking out loud

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    Member pinehavensredrocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grizz106 View Post
    now that Puma of which I have read in the past many times is now rousing some curiosity. Have lots of brass and primers and pwdr ...just need the little rifle. Wonder the reliability of them?

    Don't mind me, just thinking out loud
    griz they are very reliable and STRONG to cap .454 pressures. it is virtually a clone of the model 1892, which has the strongest lock-up of it's type.

    my rifle is the stainless 20" model, with dark hardwood stock. quite handsome...

    i don't like the sights, as the front sight is too coarse, and the rear a standard leaf. for me it shoots low. there is a safety mounted on the reciever, which is in the way for a ashley or xs sight. perhaps a tang sight would work.

    it functions with all types of ammunition that i have tried, including 325gr hard cast.

    anyway, it is a fine little rifle that hits like a 45-70 (check balistics) up to about 100yds. should be a dandy carry rig instead of a heavy revolver.

    happy trails.
    jh

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    Quote Originally Posted by LItoAK View Post
    Looking for some input. I am looking at purchasing a Marlin lever action guide gun I like the 45-70 for the stopping power but I don't know if I should get the 30-30 for the extra round. I am planning on using the gun mainly for hiking, fishing protection but I might use it for hunting in the future.
    I'd save up and buy both. I think the 30-30 holds seven rounds, the Guide Gun holds four in the magazine. One 45-70 of the correct load will be more effective than all seven of the 30-30's. As a protection gun, the 45-70 is far more effective. There really isn't much in between, in a lever of that type, that could be useful in a pinch. There is a 375 Winchester caliber and a 444 marlin caliber, both made in that same rifle. I would prefer the 375 a modern version of the old 38-55, but it never was very popular.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    I'd save up and buy both. I think the 30-30 holds seven rounds, the Guide Gun holds four in the magazine. One 45-70 of the correct load will be more effective than all seven of the 30-30's. As a protection gun, the 45-70 is far more effective. There really isn't much in between, in a lever of that type, that could be useful in a pinch. There is a 375 Winchester caliber and a 444 marlin caliber, both made in that same rifle. I would prefer the 375 a modern version of the old 38-55, but it never was very popular.
    I love the venerable 30-30 but i would agree that for stopping power i would take 1 45-70 over several 30-30 rounds. The 45-70 is an awsome round! I carry a 454 in the ruger alaskan because its easier to carry and i know if i had a rifle there would be times i would not take it with because its a pain to fish in waders with a rifle on my back.

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