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Thread: Jims Lake bust

  1. #1

    Default Jims Lake bust

    From KINYRADIO site

    Website pictures lead to fishing citations
    Four men have been cited by Alaska State Troopers for keeping undersize cutthroat trout during a trip to Jim's Lake on Admiralty Island.

    Troopers acted after reportedly getting a tip that the men had posted pictures of their catch on a website.

    Troopers say Buck, Wayne, Josh and Clint Keely caught and kept undersize cutthroat trout on September 2nd.

    Jim's Lake is a state designated trophy trout lake and cutthroat and rainbow trout must be at least 25 inches before a fisherman can keep them.

    Trophy cutthroat trout lakes on Admiralty island include Distin, Hasselborg, Lake Guerin and Jims Lakes'.

    High-use cutthroat trout lakes on Admiralty Island include Lake Alexander and Young Lake where the cutthroat and rainbow trout size limit is 14-inches minimum and 22-inch maximum

  2. #2
    Member DRIFTER_016's Avatar
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    Yes, they made the mistake of not knowing the regs or how to identify fish and then posting about it here.

    http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...51485#poststop

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    Member alaskachuck's Avatar
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    Hey Dave thanks. i thought that was the thread. I just could not find it. I remember the battle going on back then
    Grandkids, Making big tough guys hearts melt at first sight

  4. #4

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    It was unfortunate for all parties involved.

  5. #5

    Default Jims lake

    Why is it unfortunate for all parties involved?They broke the law.

  6. #6
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    Big props to the troopers!
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by TLT View Post
    Why is it unfortunate for all parties involved?They broke the law.
    To a good many people, unfortunate means unlucky. So, if you get caught by troopers fishing illegally I would call that unlucky. Well, at least they gave the troopers their case on a platter. I mean, how do you defend that? Obviously, they had no clue what the regulations were. It is inexcusable, and unfortunate; the other definition, meaning less than having good fortune.

  8. #8

    Default Kudos to the Troopers

    AKPM, I appreciate the message that you were/are trying to communicate. I think you took a beating on the other thread. Keep up the good work.

    I agree that ignorance of the law is no excuse. We all have a responsibility to know the regulations/laws, identify the catch and treat it with respect to the resource. The laws are not particurlarly burdensome, though sometimes a bit confusing. If a person was fishing for king salmon on the Kenai in August, got caught and replied, "I didn't know that the season was closed..." How should they be treated? We are all responsible for our actions and responsible to know what is legal and what is not. Keep in mind that the reason for these regulations are to protect the resource and help to assure that there will be fish in the future.

    Nevertheless, if you don't understand something, an answer is only a phone call away.. ADF&G as well as the Troopers have always been most helpful in finding answers to my questions. There have been times when my interpretations were influenced by my presuppositions... other times when the regulation was simply vague and not specific. What better person to ask for clarification than the one who is tasked with enforcing it?

    The way that the regulations are written, it seems that everything, everywhere is closed/illegal unless it is specifically stated to be open/legal. If we approach our sport that way, we will be less likely to make mistakes in ignorance.

    Cheers

  9. #9

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    I have to disagree about this being a good thing. I can't celebrate something like this. I am proud to say that I am not a tattle tale. Not many people like tattlers. That kind of activity turns my stomach. I teach my kids to avoid that kind of thing.

    The guys were ignorant, not mischevious. The people on this forum were pretty good about informing them about what they did wrong. Any minute damage they had done was already done, and the only thing good about someone telling would be that they feel good about themselves. Great--if you feel better now about ruining someone elses day, great. Happy New Year to you.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by wildog View Post
    I have to disagree about this being a good thing. I can't celebrate something like this. I am proud to say that I am not a tattle tale. Not many people like tattlers. That kind of activity turns my stomach. I teach my kids to avoid that kind of thing.

    The guys were ignorant, not mischevious. The people on this forum were pretty good about informing them about what they did wrong. Any minute damage they had done was already done, and the only thing good about someone telling would be that they feel good about themselves. Great--if you feel better now about ruining someone elses day, great. Happy New Year to you.
    Like I said, it is unfortunate.

  11. #11
    Member ak_powder_monkey's Avatar
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    ignorance is no excuse, when I was commercial fishing a guy set a net in a closed freshwater, he thought it was ok because he was ignorant, he was fined $10,000 but since he was ignorant should we just say "its ok man, you didn't know"


    Commercial fishing regulations are about 100 times more complicated than sport fishing regs. Heck AK sport fishing regs are some of the easiest to interpert in the country.


    In this case its obvious that the folks didn't know the regs, I could understand letting them go if they kept one fish to eat or were doing something like fishing with a dropper where you can't or even fishing with bait in an area that is closed to bait that is hard to understand but its pretty clear in the regulations to read "Jim lake - Limit 1 cutthroat trout per day over 25 inches" and a few pages later a very nice set of identification instructions. The regs even have instructions on how to interpert the regulations.

    I didn't know is no excuse. I don't care who it is, I call in every violation I see if I'm in cell range, I don't care if you are my best friend its disrespectful to me, disrespectful to everybody in this state, and most importantly disrespectful to the fish. I don't care if you are fishing a stocked lake, the kenai river, or a creek in the middle of nowhere. I suggest everyone do the same.

    For the record I thought these folks were keeping kokeanee (hard to tell from the pics) but it was clear they had no clue what they were catching so I asked if next time they'd bother to read the regulations next time they came up so they could avoid a fishing violation (and a ticket)

    We all make mistakes sometime (I know I have once in a while) but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be held accountable for them especially when your mistakes can affect others. If these folks wanted to catch and keep cutts there are plenty of places they could go and keep their limits of 12 inch cutts but there are like 5(ish) lakes in SEAK that are managed for trophy fisheries. There are a few managed for high use fisheries and there are even some managed for people to keep a ton of fish.

    I'm glad that our pitiful fisheries enforcement crew (not because they don't try but because their just aren't enough of them) could do their job and help protect the resource for me, you and everybody else.

    It may be unfortunate for everybody, but this case was preventable very simply.
    I choose to fly fish, not because its easy, but because its hard.

  12. #12
    Member DRIFTER_016's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildog View Post
    I have to disagree about this being a good thing. I can't celebrate something like this. I am proud to say that I am not a tattle tale. Not many people like tattlers. That kind of activity turns my stomach. I teach my kids to avoid that kind of thing.

    The guys were ignorant, not mischevious. The people on this forum were pretty good about informing them about what they did wrong. Any minute damage they had done was already done, and the only thing good about someone telling would be that they feel good about themselves. Great--if you feel better now about ruining someone elses day, great. Happy New Year to you.

    So let me get this straight. You tell your kids to just ignore it if they see a crime being committed? Because you don't want them to be labled a tattle tale? I'm sorry but attitudes like this are the bane of todays society.

    Now Junior, we don't want to tattle on anyone, what will people think?
    But mom, what if those Germans over there take more than their limit of salmon. Just ignore it dear. But mom, what if we see a drunk driver weaving all over the road? Just ignore it dear. But mom, what if I saw someone selling drugs at school today. Just ignore it dear. But mom, what if I see someone shoot somebody? Just ignore it dear.

    Ignorance of the law is no excuse. If you get up in front of the judge and say "Your honor I did not know I was breaking the law" the judges response would be "Son I empathize but ignorance of the law is no excuse. Guilty!!"

    About 30 years ago I made an error interperating the fishing regs in Ontario, and it cost me a fishing rod and $100 fine. It was an honest mistake just like these fellows made and I paid the price for it.

    I don't give a $#%^ what anyone thinks of me I will report anything I see that is against the law, whether it be fish and game violations, drunk drivers or any other crime. If more people would become part of the solution and not part of the problem this world might just be a better place.


    Rant Over!!!!

  13. #13

    Default Not the end of the world......

    This topic is getting dangerous.....But, with that said, I don't think they were mischevious at all. They just screwed up. Yet, that doesn't mean that nothing is to happen. What they did is about equivelent to getting a speeding ticket. Surely, you know you are speeding, and even if you don't that doesn't change anything because you were in vioation. I doubt they received a life sentence for what they did. It is not like they were running a cannery out of the RV down on the Russian or something, but none the less, ticketing is fine as they were fishing outside what is allowed in the regulations. It happens. It is time to get over it and move on. We all make mistakes. Sometimes we have to pay for them, sometimes we don't. If this thread has any purpose left at all it is that all anglers need to take a few seconds to check the regulations before wetting their line. Otherwise, one could easily end up in their boat (I leave this open for interpretation).

  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRIFTER_016 View Post
    So let me get this straight. You tell your kids to just ignore it if they see a crime being committed? Because you don't want them to be labled a tattle tale? I'm sorry but attitudes like this are the bane of todays society.

    Now Junior, we don't want to tattle on anyone, what will people think?
    But mom, what if those Germans over there take more than their limit of salmon. Just ignore it dear. But mom, what if we see a drunk driver weaving all over the road? Just ignore it dear. But mom, what if I saw someone selling drugs at school today. Just ignore it dear. But mom, what if I see someone shoot somebody? Just ignore it dear.

    Ignorance of the law is no excuse. If you get up in front of the judge and say "Your honor I did not know I was breaking the law" the judges response would be "Son I empathize but ignorance of the law is no excuse. Guilty!!"

    About 30 years ago I made an error interperating the fishing regs in Ontario, and it cost me a fishing rod and $100 fine. It was an honest mistake just like these fellows made and I paid the price for it.

    I don't give a $#%^ what anyone thinks of me I will report anything I see that is against the law, whether it be fish and game violations, drunk drivers or any other crime. If more people would become part of the solution and not part of the problem this world might just be a better place.


    Rant Over!!!!
    Sorry man but I have to disagree. Yes there is a time to call the troopers, I'm not saying there isn't. This was not one of those times.
    First of all celebrating over ruining someone elses day--that's kind of evil.
    Speaking of Germany, well there was a time when the government REALLY encouraged people to tell on each other.
    As far as kids, well at my boys' school they don't allow kids to tattle, in fact they get in trouble for it, unless they are actually getting someone out of real trouble by doing it.
    I won't share the delight with those who are enjoying this because it discusts me.
    I can't agree with what you are saying but I respect your opinion.

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    Wow. Is this still a fishing forum?

  16. #16
    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    My personal opinion on this is that the whole story is pretty sad. I hsve seen plenty of people willfully go out and violate the regs with little regard. I have been fast to call the authorities and report it as well. I don't care to see alot of fanfare when a genuine outdoorsman makes a mistake. I doubt that the "offenders" would ever make such a mistake again. I hope that they receive a reasonable fine and are allowed to go along with their dignity intact and that this doesn't discourage them from continued enjoyment of the great AK outdoors.

  17. #17
    Member arcticat500's Avatar
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    Default Well stated.

    Quote Originally Posted by LuJon View Post
    My personal opinion on this is that the whole story is pretty sad. I hsve seen plenty of people willfully go out and violate the regs with little regard. I have been fast to call the authorities and report it as well. I don't care to see alot of fanfare when a genuine outdoorsman makes a mistake. I doubt that the "offenders" would ever make such a mistake again. I hope that they receive a reasonable fine and are allowed to go along with their dignity intact and that this doesn't discourage them from continued enjoyment of the great AK outdoors.
    I couldn't agree more.
    Although some can call it Catchin', I still have to call it fishin'.

  18. #18

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    For career week when I was in jr. high I was scheduled for a day in the office with the ANC Fish and Wildlife Trooper division. The officer I met was in the twilight of his law enforcement career, the gray hair, raspy voice, broken down body, and wrinkled face limited him to inevitable retirement. He sat me down at his desk, the room was packed with others in the same field. The room was quiet and he asked me, "have you ever caught a fish illegally?" I confidently said, NO. You will never guess what happened. Every soul in the entire room broke out laughing. They were laughing so hard people were grabbing their sides, clinching their stomachs, rolling around in their office chairs and so on.

    For the life of me I couldn't figure out why they were laughing at me and at the age of 14 watching a dozen or so people busting their guts at my expense I got to say I was severely intimidated in that moment. After silence re-entered the room another officer asked me, as he is whipping away a tear from laughing so hard, "have you ever caught a fish?" Of course I have and many of them I told the room. That very same person that asked me then said, "Well, if you have caught fish then you have caught fish, at some point in time, illegally."

    Who has not done something illegal while fishing? Any saints here? I highly doubt it and those that preach their innocence may have broke the law without ever knowing it. It's no secret the regs can be complicated and tough to memorize for each fishery listed. Personally, I keep a copy of the regs in my boat, atv, truck, and both day packs to limit confusion. Also I do not condone illegal fishing but I would rather see a friendly reminder of the regs than persecution on such a mishap.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Gremlin View Post
    For career week when I was in jr. high I was scheduled for a day in the office with the ANC Fish and Wildlife Trooper division. The officer I met was in the twilight of his law enforcement career, the gray hair, raspy voice, broken down body, and wrinkled face limited him to inevitable retirement. He sat me down at his desk, the room was packed with others in the same field. The room was quiet and he asked me, "have you ever caught a fish illegally?" I confidently said, NO. You will never guess what happened. Every soul in the entire room broke out laughing. They were laughing so hard people were grabbing their sides, clinching their stomachs, rolling around in their office chairs and so on.

    For the life of me I couldn't figure out why they were laughing at me and at the age of 14 watching a dozen or so people busting their guts at my expense I got to say I was severely intimidated in that moment. After silence re-entered the room another officer asked me, as he is whipping away a tear from laughing so hard, "have you ever caught a fish?" Of course I have and many of them I told the room. That very same person that asked me then said, "Well, if you have caught fish then you have caught fish, at some point in time, illegally."

    Who has not done something illegal while fishing? Any saints here? I highly doubt it and those that preach their innocence may have broke the law without ever knowing it. It's no secret the regs can be complicated and tough to memorize for each fishery listed. Personally, I keep a copy of the regs in my boat, atv, truck, and both day packs to limit confusion. Also I do not condone illegal fishing but I would rather see a friendly reminder of the regs than persecution on such a mishap.

    A lot of people have to have their pound of flesh when someone makes an honest mistake. Personally, an apology is enough for me most of the time if little harm is done. Like I said before, this was an unfortunate event.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRIFTER_016 View Post
    So let me get this straight.
    With all due respect my friend, I don't think you do have "this straight." Your entire scenario does not relate to what happened in this incident at all. No one is telling anyone to ignore a crime. It is abundantly obvious that these folks misunderstood the confusing regulations - read the original post/thread if you have not already.

    Again, these people did misunderstand the regs but I really hope F&G went easy on these folks. Why? Because many folks deliberately ignore regulations and others just don't pay any attention to them. Neither is the case with this incident.

    I am not trying to be rude to DRIFTER or others here. I just think it is important for people to understand that the "bane" of our society is not that folks make honest mistakes but rather that so many of us don't have enough discerning skills to distinguish between criminal activity and honest misunderstanding of sometimes very complex rules and identificaiton that not even the folks writting the regs can agree on.

    I just don't see how hanging these good people from the highest tree makes some folks feel better.

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