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Thread: First reload complete

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    Default First reload complete

    Ok, after measuring, checking, remeasuring, rechecking, putting everything away for a day or two then repeating all the above...



    However, now that I inspect it closely it looks like the primer isn't seated quite flush. Also, there is a small indentation in the primer on the outside edge that must have happened when I was seating it with the Lee Auto Prime.. So, I'm going to take it apart and start over again. Any cautions?

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    ...and now another problem. I pulled the bullet and decided to double check everything. When I poured the powder onto the scale it read waaayyy too high! What the heck? I zero'd the scale before using it for the first round but I check it's zero again and then put the powder charge back in the tray and it read too much. I removed the tray, jiggled the powder to spread it out evenly and when I put in back on the scale it read too low. I did it again and that time it went off scale high???

    What the heck is going on?

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    Get some help from someone nearby with experience. Once you get dialed in you will load great ammo safely and your shooting experience will be satisfying.

    Be sure to prep your brass, ie: primer pocket uniforming, flash hole deburring, length trimming, etc. If the primer pocket is dirty or not set to the proper depth your primers wont seat flush.

    If your charge weights are off as far as you indicate you may have a bad scale or poor dispenser. It could be as easy as an extruded powder that doesn't like your dispenser.

    Good luck,
    Last edited by marshall; 12-28-2008 at 18:17. Reason: more info...

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    It seems you have scale problems and that must be fixed first. I guess an electronic scale? Do you have flourescent lights above or near the scale? These can cause funky readings. Re-Calibrate the scale and try again. You can shade the flourescent light form the scale.

    Caution: Do Not reseat the primers of a loaded round. You need to pull all the bullets to verify the powder charge so reseat then. I find most beginners are not sure about how much pressure to use to seat a primer, this is something you need to develop a feel for. The primer should be slightly below flush to be correctly seated. I've seated a million and never set one off during the seating process, I guess it could happen. I always wear safety glasses for that. When you pull the bullets, resize the case for best fit, just remove the decapper pin from the neck expander stem.

    That looks like a nice round though, a 30-30? Did you trim cases to suggested trim length? Is the brass new or fired? Hang in there. Oh, yeah, I'm in Fairbanks, if you want help with it, drop me a PM.
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    Don't decap/remove a live primer!
    Pull bullet and fire primer in your gun or soak overnight with a drop of oil (like 3-in-1) to kill primer before decaping. If you go with the oil you must get the oil 100% out of the brass before loading.

    I love my Lee auto prime hand held but it takes a hard grip to work well, don't like the auto prime 2 that works with the press myself.

    Andy

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    I have removed the bullet, emptied out the powder and reseated the primer. I'll fire the primer through the rifle and just start over again My powder scale is shown below and I'm just not sure why I'm having so much trouble but I think the best advice for me to follow right now is from Marshall and I'll have a friend come over with his scale or known load and we'll check out my scale. My dispenser is a small spoon and I'm dropping them on the scale one by one when I get close to an indication of the proper load.

    I'm thinking that it really should not matter where the powder is in the pan, it should still read the same, right?



    Murphy, it is a 30-30 round and everything seemed to go well other than the primer which is corrected now and the ongoing powder weight problem. The cases I'm using right now are brand new but I'm preparing them as if they had been fired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookseller View Post
    I have removed the bullet, emptied out the powder and reseated the primer. I'll fire the primer through the rifle and just start over again My powder scale is shown below and I'm just not sure why I'm having so much trouble but I think the best advice for me to follow right now is from Marshall and I'll have a friend come over with his scale or known load and we'll check out my scale. My dispenser is a small spoon and I'm dropping them on the scale one by one when I get close to an indication of the proper load.

    I'm thinking that it really should not matter where the powder is in the pan, it should still read the same, right?



    Murphy, it is a 30-30 round and everything seemed to go well other than the primer which is corrected now and the ongoing powder weight problem. The cases I'm using right now are brand new but I'm preparing them as if they had been fired.
    Ok seems your on the right track. There is no need to fire the primers they can be used in the final loaded round. Also if you so desire you can decap live primers without incident, I've done thousands of them even reused them in different cases. I have never set off a primer in this way but wearing safety glasses is always a good idea. It is just a primer not a claymore. That scale is likely binding in the pivot in some way, make sure it is clean in the pivot and check it against another scale.

    What powder are you using?
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Bookseller, you can borrow my RCBS 505 for a lil bit if need be and since I'm in Eagle River I bet were are within 10 minutes of each other.

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    Bookseller, by chance do you have a fan or heater or some type of air flow near your scale? This will cause funny readings also. Dont ask me how I know.

    Gun Runner

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    With a beam scale make sure there is clearance under the powder tray/cup/thing. I once had to pull about 50 .44 loads 'cause I didn't notice that the bottom of my scale pan/tray/cup/thing was hitting my bench! Had to put my RCBS on a block.

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    Default Scale function test

    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    That scale is likely binding in the pivot in some way, make sure it is clean in the pivot and check it against another scale.
    Just off the top of my head, try this:

    When the scale balances at zero or when weighing anything, the pointer should swing freely equally above and below the zero, eventually settling down to zero. Watch and see. If it "hitches" or hangs, you have some binding on the knife-edge or interference with the arm movement. Wiggle stuff to see if that cures it. Remember to check the hook the pan hangs on to ensure it swings freely, too. If it binds up it may change the leverage.

    Step one: set the sliding weights (poises) to zero and ensure the pointer swings freely the same distance above and below zero and comes to a stop by itself right on zero..

    Step two. set the 1 grain poise on the 10 grain mark and drop 10 grains of powder in the pan The pointer sould oscillate around and eventually stop at zero.

    Step three set the 1 grain poise back to zero and move the 10 grain poise to "1". Is the pointer oscillating around (and finally, settling on) zero again?

    Step 4 dump the 10 grains of powder into a casing and measure out another 10 grains of powder as in step 2.

    Step 5 add the first 10 grains to the second 10 grains and see if the scale weighs it at 20 grains.

    If the scale behaves as expected it probably is OK. If not, figure out what is wrong with the scale or with its environment (air flow, magnets, binding, whatever). Maybe the scale is defective (rare) and a return to the store would be appropriate. Unlikely, but possible.

    Good luck and Happy New Year. Sorry you are having troubles.

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    your lee scale sets up differently than some others....on your bench where you intend to weigh the loads, zero the scale. set the "ball" on zero, then pull the plastic pin stop on the grain scale and zero that. THEN thumb the brass wheel behind the grain scale until the pointer(bar to frame) lines meet. be sure to have the pan mounted (empty of course) to get an accurate reading.

    to set the scale, move the ball to the nearest 10gr and move the grain scale to the proper load. lock the grain scale by pushing the plastic "pin stop", and you should be in business.

    though inexpensive, the lee powder measure is accurate and fast! good luck with your loads.

    happy trails.
    jh

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    I'm not familiar with the Lee scale but my RCBS ballance beam scale came with a 500 gr wieght that can double the weighing capacity of the scale. It can also be used check the accuracy of the scale. If you dont have a weight, you might use something of known weight like a bullet to check your scale. Not all bullets are exactly the same but they should be within + or - .5 gr to give you a good idea of your scales accuracy. And like someone else mentioned try to get someone experienced to help you the first session or two.

    Hope you get it figured out and good loading.

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    Thanks for all the excellent advice guys.

    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Gremlin View Post
    Bookseller, you can borrow my RCBS 505 for a lil bit if need be and since I'm in Eagle River I bet were are within 10 minutes of each other.
    I may take you up on that. Another option I have is a customer in my store that reloads a lot and he offered to come help me if I had problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gun Runner View Post
    Bookseller, by chance do you have a fan or heater or some type of air flow near your scale? This will cause funny readings also. Dont ask me how I know. Gun Runner
    Yep, heater fan running in the garage. I figured that one out early on when the scale just seemed to be oscillating endlessly. I turned down the temp to shut it off and eventually froze to death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Sheep View Post
    Just off the top of my head, try this:

    When the scale balances at zero or when weighing anything, the pointer should swing freely equally above and below the zero, eventually settling down to zero. Watch and see. If it "hitches" or hangs, you have some binding on the knife-edge or interference with the arm movement. Wiggle stuff to see if that cures it. Remember to check the hook the pan hangs on to ensure it swings freely, too. If it binds up it may change the leverage.

    If the scale behaves as expected it probably is OK. If not, figure out what is wrong with the scale or with its environment (air flow, magnets, binding, whatever). Maybe the scale is defective (rare) and a return to the store would be appropriate. Unlikely, but possible.

    Good luck and Happy New Year. Sorry you are having troubles.
    The scale is catching on something. Whenever I remove the pan or if even touch the arm I end up having to adjust it right or left to get it to swing freely. I am leaning towards the defective scale here though as it always seems to catch on something. If I get it to zero out with a load of powder and then remove the pan and immediately replace the pan the arm catches or it settles down somewhere way above or way below the zero mark and I haven't changed anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by pinehavensredrocket View Post
    your lee scale sets up differently than some others....on your bench where you intend to weigh the loads, zero the scale. set the "ball" on zero, then pull the plastic pin stop on the grain scale and zero that. THEN thumb the brass wheel behind the grain scale until the pointer(bar to frame) lines meet. be sure to have the pan mounted (empty of course) to get an accurate reading.

    to set the scale, move the ball to the nearest 10gr and move the grain scale to the proper load. lock the grain scale by pushing the plastic "pin stop", and you should be in business.

    though inexpensive, the lee powder measure is accurate and fast! good luck with your loads.

    happy trails.
    jh
    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaRifleman View Post
    I'm not familiar with the Lee scale but my RCBS ballance beam scale came with a 500 gr wieght that can double the weighing capacity of the scale. It can also be used check the accuracy of the scale. If you dont have a weight, you might use something of known weight like a bullet to check your scale. Not all bullets are exactly the same but they should be within + or - .5 gr to give you a good idea of your scales accuracy. And like someone else mentioned try to get someone experienced to help you the first session or two.

    Hope you get it figured out and good loading.
    Good idea on using a bullet to check the scale. There is one other check I can try. The kit I have came with the Lee Perfect Powder Measure and today I'm going to set it up, measure out a load and pour in in the pan to check it against the scale.

    Once again guys, thanks for all the help here. I'm using the safety first principle and am in no rush to get rolling on this. Once everything is in place I'll look forward to several hours of my new hobby. For now, I will just try to work out the kinks...with everyone's help that is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    Also if you so desire you can decap live primers without incident, I've done thousands of them even reused them in different cases. I have never set off a primer in this way but wearing safety glasses is always a good idea. It is just a primer not a claymore.
    You have been very lucky! The one I ever decaped detonated on me, shot down the grove in the press arm into my leg. True, it was not a claymore but it was enough to go through my pant leg and sting like heII! Not worth the risk for a $.05 primer that may make a dud round from the anvil being crushed down by decaping in my opinion. But to each his own.

    Andy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookseller View Post
    Thanks for all the excellent advice guys.



    I may take you up on that. Another option I have is a customer in my store that reloads a lot and he offered to come help me if I had problems.



    Yep, heater fan running in the garage. I figured that one out early on when the scale just seemed to be oscillating endlessly. I turned down the temp to shut it off and eventually froze to death.



    The scale is catching on something. Whenever I remove the pan or if even touch the arm I end up having to adjust it right or left to get it to swing freely. I am leaning towards the defective scale here though as it always seems to catch on something. If I get it to zero out with a load of powder and then remove the pan and immediately replace the pan the arm catches or it settles down somewhere way above or way below the zero mark and I haven't changed anything.





    Good idea on using a bullet to check the scale. There is one other check I can try. The kit I have came with the Lee Perfect Powder Measure and today I'm going to set it up, measure out a load and pour in in the pan to check it against the scale.

    Once again guys, thanks for all the help here. I'm using the safety first principle and am in no rush to get rolling on this. Once everything is in place I'll look forward to several hours of my new hobby. For now, I will just try to work out the kinks...with everyone's help that is.


    your scale WON"T balance with out the pan! leave it on, then balance out the scale. it must be set to 0 before you can weigh anything.

    if you set it on "0", it will be "0" and the beam will point to the "fixed line" on your scale.
    good luck.
    jh

    once you do it a couple times it will be simple.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinehavensredrocket View Post
    your scale WON"T balance with out the pan! leave it on, then balance out the scale. it must be set to 0 before you can weigh anything.

    if you set it on "0", it will be "0" and the beam will point to the "fixed line" on your scale.
    good luck.
    jh

    once you do it a couple times it will be simple.
    Understood, what I worded badly in my post was I would remove the pan and then put it back on the arm again and arm would point higher or lower each time. All I would do when removing the pan is shake the powder to even it out in the pan. Sometimes I wouldn't even change the way the powder was laying in the pan. I would just remove the pan and replace it and the pointer would be off zero.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bookseller View Post
    Understood, what I worded badly in my post was I would remove the pan and then put it back on the arm again and arm would point higher or lower each time. All I would do when removing the pan is shake the powder to even it out in the pan. Sometimes I wouldn't even change the way the powder was laying in the pan. I would just remove the pan and replace it and the pointer would be off zero.
    wow......this must be maddening! last idea. make sure your "pins" are locked in for the grain measure (right side of balance beam). if not, the grain measure will move and give erroneous readings.

    jh

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    Bookseller,

    Thanks for the vote of confidence. I lean towards the conservative side. I too find a great deal of information here and use it.

    Murphy is a wealth of knowledge as are a few others, trust him.

    By the way, I didn't know about the florescent light messing with a digital scale, that explains a few things on this end.

    Thanks Murphy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    You have been very lucky! The one I ever decaped detonated on me, shot down the grove in the press arm into my leg. True, it was not a claymore but it was enough to go through my pant leg and sting like heII! Not worth the risk for a $.05 primer that may make a dud round from the anvil being crushed down by decaping in my opinion. But to each his own.

    Andy
    Well no arguement, it isn't worth it, but I've been lucky with the primers. I actually expect a primer to go bang every time I do anything like that, reseat, decap or whatever, so care is exercised. It is the one operation where safety glasses are a must. If we set one off with the decaping operation, it would jsut zoom down the spent primer tube since the die is closed off so I never worried about that. I guess you know the route of a spent primer now.

    Actually a normal primer is seated correctly it will push the anvil down on to the primer mix. This is what assures that it will fire when struck. When you seat them then successfully decap them you can see the difference in where the anvil sits.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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