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Thread: 25-06 vs. 243

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    Member MikeGSP's Avatar
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    Default 25-06 vs. 243

    I'm fairly new to the world of long range shooting. I was looking into a long range shooting riffle for those yotes that hang up 600-800 yds from being call shy. Does anyone have any input as to which riffle between these two or maybe another that might be able to reach out and touch these buggers? I'm shooting a 22-250 now and I think 600 yds is about the max isn't it? I'm shooting a 52 grain Sierra HPBT Match King.

    Mike

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    I know 6.5 x 284 is very popular for the LR applications, but range finders & adjustable scopes (a scope that you can count on for precise clicks for elevation adjustments so you can dial in the proper elevation for the shot. Target turrets at the least so you aren't fumbeling with caps in the wind, snow, & cold) are the real key for this type of shooting.
    Don't have the tables here but I think the 25-06 would be the winner over the 243.
    Vance in AK.

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    25-06 without question
    A GUN WRITER NEEDS:
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  4. #4

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    The 25-06 is definitely the more potent round. If you're hoping to make 800 yd shots on yotes, you'll need a good scope with elevation and windage turrets or mil dots or cross hatches. A 25-06 will be very much affeced by wind at those ranges. You'll need some good drop charts or balisitic sofwre you can take to the field. Check out the Long Range Hunting site, there's a ton of good info there.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeGSP View Post
    I'm fairly new to the world of long range shooting. I was looking into a long range shooting riffle for those yotes that hang up 600-800 yds from being call shy. Does anyone have any input as to which riffle between these two or maybe another that might be able to reach out and touch these buggers? I'm shooting a 22-250 now and I think 600 yds is about the max isn't it? I'm shooting a 52 grain Sierra HPBT Match King.

    Mike
    I've done a fair bit of very long range shooting with an assortment of calibers, and the 243 falls by the wayside pretty badly when you get out as far as you're trying to reach. The 25-06 does a little better with 120 grain bullets, but my one concern is the extra effort in locating match grade bullets for it. And at that range I think match accuracy is needed. If it's getting breezy, you're going to want to push up the ballistic coefficient and velocity too.

    If I was designing a rifle from scratch for your specific shooting, it would be launching a minimum 140 grain match bullet with very high BC to at least 3200 fps. We're talking a magnum capacity case here and plenty of recoil, so the gun would be fairly heavy, too, with lots of glass. Probably have a bipod and sling on it as well, if it's a walk-around gun rather than a sandbag queen. In my mind that narrows it down to 6.5, 7mm or 30 cal with a lot of powder capacity and a whole lot of work put into accuracy- not only in load selection, but also in rifle design and tuning.

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    Member MikeGSP's Avatar
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    Yeah I wasn't sure about the 6mm being the way of choice or the 7mm. The .308 was also another possible route to take but looking at weight for packing into these places to shoot these wise 'ol yotes is also a factor I'm looking into. People got a month head start on me while I was working and these bugers are quite the challenge now. I thank you guys for all the info and any more that want to share their thoughts.


    Mike

  7. #7

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    I agree with BrownBear that the larger calibers, barrels and bullets are better for long range shooting. I do think that you can make 800 yd shots with a good sporter type caryable rifle (with 26" barrel) and you would want a bipod. I also think a 25-06 is capable of an 800 yd shot on a yote but not a good idea on deer sized game, and the wind will certainly buck a .25 cal bullet around quite a bit.

    The 7mm mags (RM, WSM, Dakota, STW and RUM) are really good long range shooters with the availability of high BC bullets like the Berger 180 VLD. A 270 Win shooting a 130 or 140 gr bullet would probably be my low end choice for making 800 yd shots and the 270 WSM shooting a 150 gr pill would be better.

    The 308 is a great cartridge, but doesn't have a lot of pep at long distances. It could do the job, but I would pick the 270 Win over it.

    Let us know what you go with. Good shooting.

    Mark

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    Default 6.5 x 284

    I am not much of a long range shooter myself, but my wife has a .260 rem in a model 7 that shoots great. there is a ton of good bullets to choose from and recoil is not bad at all. That said, I do think it would be slightly lacking in the long range potential you are looking for. If it was me, I think I would go the way of the long ranges profesionals and look into the 6.5-284 with a 26" barrel, first rate glass and about 12lbs overall weight. But even then, 800 yds is literaly twice as far as the longest shot I have ever taken................... better put in an order for a eargassplittenloudenboomer reamer and get yourself a half dozen quick change barrels.
    “You’ve gotten soft. You’re like one of those police dogs who’s released in to the wild and gets eaten by a deer or something.” Bill McNeal of News Radio

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    Member nrc's Avatar
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    If you didn't already have a 22-250, I'd lobby for a .243. Since you do, I'd opt for a 2506.

    Nate

  10. #10
    Member MikeGSP's Avatar
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    [quote=MontanaRifleman;398792] A 270 Win shooting a 130 or 140 gr bullet would probably be my low end choice for making 800 yd shots and the 270 WSM shooting a 150 gr pill would be better.
    It could do the job, but I would pick the 270 Win over it.


    Like I said I'm fairly new to this long range shooting as before I was a only 200-300 max kinda guy thinking the closer the better. But now that I have my buddy Ike who is into long range shooting and reloading has got me into it more and more and now that people have these yotes wised up to what they think is a safe distance I'm rethinking my judgement, and would like to make/get a long range varmit gun. Now with that said I totally over looked my 270 savage, but it's not the WSM so now my question is the savage I'm guessing being not a Mag won't have the reach over the WSM correct? So now I would have to buy one which I'm not against just have to start pricing. I appericate all the info again guys and keep it coming if your willing to spill cuz I'm all ears.

    Mike

    www.granitemoutaingamebirds.com

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeGSP View Post
    Now with that said I totally over looked my 270 savage, but it's not the WSM so now my question is the savage I'm guessing being not a Mag won't have the reach over the WSM correct? So now I would have to buy one which I'm not against just have to start pricing. I appericate all the info again guys and keep it coming if your willing to spill cuz I'm all ears.

    Mike

    www.granitemoutaingamebirds.com
    I'd pick your existing 270 over anything new in a New York minute. The differences in performance between it and a WSM at the long ranges you're talking will be miniscule in the bigger picture. If it's accurate enough it will certainly do the job.

    My longest shot ever on a coyote was pure undeniable luck. Three of us were riding across a big sage flat that gently sloped down into a wide draw, then up onto a mesa. Jumped him at a couple of hundred yards or so and he took off at a dead run. By the time I pulled my stock mini-14 out of the saddle scabbard and steadied the horse he was a good 300 yards away. By the time I got near the bottom of the 30-round clip, he was somewhere between 800 and 1000 yards out, just a dot leading a streak of dust. I had been leading him by something like 100 feet and holding over 20 or 30. Who knows with those course open sights?

    And suddenly it looked like he tripped on something, just bounce, did a couple of summersaults and a flipflop before stopping. Took us a good ten minutes to ride over to him.

    And darned if I didn't head shoot him!!!!!! The 55 grain factory SP went into the top of his head and exited the bottom, to tell you how high the trajectory was. Yup, that wiley old yote got really unlucky and ran right under the bullet.

    Best part was the young cowhand riding with us. He looked the yote over real careful and then said "Man, I gotta get me one of them Rugers!"

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    Member MikeGSP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post

    Best part was the young cowhand riding with us. He looked the yote over real careful and then said "Man, I gotta get me one of them Rugers!"


    That was a funny story thanks for sharing. Well looks like I will start playing around with that savage and once this -46F weather changes up take her out and try some long range. Looks like I get to buy another scope!! The girlfriend will love that, I'll upgrade my 3x9x40 Nicon I think, but I'll shoot her first. Any good brand suggestions on turret scope?


    Mike

    www.granitemoutaingamebirds.com
    Last edited by MikeGSP; 12-29-2008 at 12:43. Reason: typo

  13. #13

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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by MikeGSP View Post
    Like I said I'm fairly new to this long range shooting as before I was a only 200-300 max kinda guy thinking the closer the better. But now that I have my buddy Ike who is into long range shooting and reloading has got me into it more and more and now that people have these yotes wised up to what they think is a safe distance I'm rethinking my judgement, and would like to make/get a long range varmit gun. Now with that said I totally over looked my 270 savage, but it's not the WSM so now my question is the savage I'm guessing being not a Mag won't have the reach over the WSM correct? So now I would have to buy one which I'm not against just have to start pricing. I appericate all the info again guys and keep it coming if your
    www.granitemoutaingamebirds.com
    willing to spill cuz I'm all ears.

    Mike
    Mike, Your 270 savage should do fine if it's about a .5 MOA rifle. However, the 270 WSM will shoot about 250 fps plus faster which will buy you about 150 yds of bullet performance. I say that based on the Fed tables (2830 MV vs 3100 MV) which I have reason to believe because hey indicate 2980 for the 300 WSM 180 SP which I chrono'd @ 2985-3006 out of my 300 WSM.

    For your shooting I recommend a Berger 150 VLD, for it's high BC and accuracy and reasonable cost.

    As for a scope, I have a Nightforce 5 1/2 x 22 x 50, but they are spendy. I believe you can get Bushnell Elite 4200 with turrets, but I also recomment a mil dot or cross hatch type reticle for quick shots. Leupold and Zeiss are other good ones

    I really, really recommend you check out the Long Range Hunting site, there is a ton of info on equipement, technique, etc

    Cheers and good yoting,

    Mark

  14. #14

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    How much you wanna spend? I am fond of the loopies in a VXIII, but there are even better scopes out there. They are just out of my price vs. function range. I'd say get a 20 power with fine reticles at a minimum for 800yrds. Like the others said, learn the turrets, or get something with drop marks already calculated in. Loopies custom shop can give (and by give i really mean sell) you a elevation turret that is marked with yardage, but I aint too sure how you go about gettin it.

    I'm not an overly experience long range shooter, but I am trying to get into it. Everyone is probabaly right with the caliber of choice, but I'll be building a long range .243 this coming year. Berger and Sierra both make good bullets with high BC's in 6mm. My particular thought is, if the pointy bullet is still traveling well above supersonic, it will penetrate a dog, a rounded .22 shorts will.

  15. #15

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    I recommend turrets and reticles graduated to MOA vs yardage. Yardgae will change with changes in ballisitc inputs like load, bullet, elevation, etc.

    243's are very cool guns inside 500 yds but the small bullets will get pushed around by the wind big time.

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    Member fishnngrinn's Avatar
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    Default Scope

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeGSP View Post
    That was a funny story thanks for sharing. Well looks like I will start playing around with that savage and once this -46F weather changes up take her out and try some long range. Looks like I get to buy another scope!! The girlfriend will love that, I'll upgrade my 3x9x40 Nicon I think, but I'll shoot her first. Any good brand suggestions on turret scope?


    Mike

    www.granitemoutaingamebirds.com
    Scope: This one is new to me, Konus M30, 4.5-16x by 42mm (I think). It is a 30 mm tube. It comes with lockable target turrets, mildot reticle, lighted cross hairs, but they work without light also, an internal bubble level, side parallax adjustment, sun shade. I sighted in with it mounted on dpms AR in .223. Temp was below zero. My glasses fogged and froze, but the scope remained clear. I could easily see the .223 bullet holes at 50 yards. I got the windage adjusted, then quit because of the temps. So far I am pleased with the scope. Bought it online for less than $300 including shipping. Shop around, there is considerable price variation.
    NRA Lifetime Member

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishnngrinn View Post
    Scope: This one is new to me, Konus M30, 4.5-16x by 42mm (I think). It is a 30 mm tube. It comes with lockable target turrets, mildot reticle, lighted cross hairs, but they work without light also, an internal bubble level, side parallax adjustment, sun shade. I sighted in with it mounted on dpms AR in .223. Temp was below zero. My glasses fogged and froze, but the scope remained clear. I could easily see the .223 bullet holes at 50 yards. I got the windage adjusted, then quit because of the temps. So far I am pleased with the scope. Bought it online for less than $300 including shipping. Shop around, there is considerable price variation.

    Sounds like a pretty cool scope. Was it used? The $300 price tag would make it suspect to me, especially with all the bells and whisles it has. Hope it does well for you.

  18. #18
    Member MikeGSP's Avatar
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    [quote=MontanaRifleman;399596]

    I really, really recommend you check out the Long Range Hunting site, there is a ton of info on equipement, technique, etc

    Cheers and good yoting,

    Mark

    Whats the address for this long range hunting site you are talking?

    Mike

    www.granitemoutaingamebird.com

  19. #19

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    Before you start buying any equipment you might give this site a good look over.

    http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/

  20. #20
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    Check at Sportsman’s Gide, they have some great buys on scopes from time to time.
    http://www.sportsmansguide.com/sitem...gory_brand.asp

    Andy

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