Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 41

Thread: "More Money Than Brains"

  1. #1
    Member Phil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Liverpool, NY (a suburb of Syracuse)
    Posts
    494

    Default "More Money Than Brains"

    Several of the threads about fenced hunting have had that thought included when discussing non-resident hunters. I would like to address that thought.

    WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT. We choose different paths through life. Some of those paths include a "high pressure" way of life where "time is money". I personally thank those who choose to make their way through life that way.

    Several who post on this site use "satellite feeds" to be able to connect to others of similar interest. Those satellites, computers, and other electronic devices didn't appear by magic (we should include GPS, new ammunition, LED lights, variable scopes, etc). Someone (who probably lived in a "pressure cooker" world) developed them. Ditto for medical practices that have extended our lives and helped us be more healthy.

    We (who have more time to spend) need to understand that they are different people with different values. We don't need to pity them - just accept that they are different.

    So someone who considers a 3 day hunt as a long time hunt needs a guide who does everything except pull the trigger. If that hunter decides to put his/her trophy in the record books and on the wall - so be it. If the trophy is "steaks, chops, roasts, & burger" so be it. Just don't waste excellent food (and that goes for veggies & fruit also).

    Now, before someone starts on me - let me explain: I spent nearly 50 years as a biology teacher; I'm married to an identical twin; and neither of my children are school teachers. In fact, both my children make their livelyhoods in those "pressure cooker" positions. My son would have made a terrible school teacher. He does a great job writing computer grants for Indiana University. My daughter is "Advertising Director" for a newspaper. Talk about "pressure" - UGH

    So - please reconsider before you diss someone who looks at hunting (or fishing, camping, hiking, etc) differently than you.

  2. #2
    Member AKMuddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    458

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post

    Those satellites, computers, and other electronic devices didn't appear by magic (we should include GPS, new ammunition, LED lights, variable scopes, etc). Someone (who probably lived in a "pressure cooker" world) developed them. Ditto for medical practices that have extended our lives and helped us be more healthy.
    Those folks you mentioned above are called soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines...you can add the microwave to the list of military inventions as well. Most, if not all, of the things you mentioned were either invented by or made better by the military...not the civilian population. Not trying to derail your thread and I definitely agree with the point you were trying to get across in your post...but give credit where credit is due!
    2007 Yamaha Rhino 660
    2007 Yamaha Grizzly 700 SE w/EPS
    http://www.grizzlycentral.com/

  3. #3
    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Searching for more cowbell!
    Posts
    1,945

    Default

    Can this be moved to the hunting section?
    ><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·..¸¸ ><((((º>`·.¸¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º>

    "People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they
    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

  4. #4
    Member Phil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Liverpool, NY (a suburb of Syracuse)
    Posts
    494

    Default Wrong

    PhishFinder

    I'm not attempting to "justify canned hunts" and I do know Alaskans. I have a nephew in Fairbanks, a former student in Kodiak, and a friend who works in Anchorage. I have spent quite a bit of time in Alaska over the years (starting in 1971).

    I am "justifying" guided hunts, people who work in "pressure cooker" jobs, and people who see "time as money".

    My major point is that we are all different - something I hope both of us can agree on. Not everyone in the world sees hunting as I do (thankfully). To me a game animal is "steaks, chops, roasts, & burger". I'm of the mentalitythat you can't eat antlers. I also have plenty of time on my hands - part of which I spend in Alaska.

    PLEASE don't try to tell me that I don't understand "Alaskans" - as if there was some magic formula that included everyone living there.

    BTW, I also have a good (retired) friend who was stationed there in the Air Force and correspond with one who is currently serving in Iraq.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AKMuddy View Post
    Those folks you mentioned above are called soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines...you can add the microwave to the list of military inventions as well. Most, if not all, of the things you mentioned were either invented by or made better by the military...not the civilian population. Not trying to derail your thread and I definitely agree with the point you were trying to get across in your post...but give credit where credit is due!
    I have some experience in this world. I was a *functional* manager of a wind optimized computer flight programming system for the Air Force. It was my job to solicit, define, test and evaluate the *functional* requirements and capabilities for the system from its many users AF wide. The military did almost no actual development other than some of the plug in work. It did test but not develop. So what I'm getting at is that the military provides the requirements for these inovations and their development but the civilian world (defense contractors) do the actual development and work. I know this to be the case for the AF because I am (was) very familiar with many of it's programs including the procurment for new jets, etc. I'm fairly certain the process is basically the same for the other services.

  6. #6
    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Searching for more cowbell!
    Posts
    1,945

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AKMuddy View Post
    Those folks you mentioned above are called soldiers/sailors/airmen/marines...you can add the microwave to the list of military inventions as well. Most, if not all, of the things you mentioned were either invented by or made better by the military...not the civilian population. ....but give credit where credit is due!

    Muddy, the active duty military does very little "inventing". The military is the driving force behind many "inventions", but the personnel lack the technical training (for the most part) to invent most of the items on the list. The engineers that I work/worked with would not accept the lousy pay and poor housing offered by the military for their hard work, though quite a few of us accepted it prior to engineering school. The choice of $25-50k/year or $125k/year plus keeping all of your rights is a pretty easy choice for most of the engineers I know.

    There were several people that I graduated engineering school with who were former military. The primary recruiter for my graduating class was Electric Boat, which builds subs. This is a private company and it's employees are all civilian.

    The microwave was a side effect calculated and carried out first by Raytheon by civilian employees.
    ><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·..¸¸ ><((((º>`·.¸¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º>

    "People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they
    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

  7. #7

    Default

    I won't attempt to justify anything, but I will state: Too many people have been brought up wanting and recieving Instant Gratification. A three day hunt affords them that and continues to feed their incesant demands. Do I think it to be wrong? Indeed! Same kind of characters want to be Race Car Drivers for a day, Baseball Players for a week and so on. It fuels the Fantasy Realm. They aren't Hunters any more than they are Race Car Drivers or Baseball Players, but they do get the feeling that they are. IMO, it is a tragic path for Hunting to allow them to take. There should be a gate, on that path and hunters hold the key, in the form of peer pressure and tolerance and intolerance. Bottom line has to be; These folks are not Hunters, they are fantasy seekers.

    With enough money spent, anyone can be Queen For the Day or even take a ride into outer space, but they will never be Royalty or an Astronaut. Hunting is a fraternity and opening it up to wantabe's and those committed to it for only a day, serves to alter the heritage in a negative way.
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  8. #8
    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Searching for more cowbell!
    Posts
    1,945

    Default

    Palin,
    I agree completely. These folks aren't hunters. Trying to add more import to their time than someone else's is folly. Time is money, sheesh. That argument is weak and inconsiderate.
    ><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·..¸¸ ><((((º>`·.¸¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º>

    "People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they
    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

  9. #9

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    Palin,
    I agree completely. These folks aren't hunters. Trying to add more import to their time than someone else's is folly. Time is money, sheesh. That argument is weak and inconsiderate.
    I want to be an Executive, CEO, Doctor or Admin of this site, anything but a politician (as this is old hat to me), but I only have three days to commit to the cause. Please someone, allow me to sit at the head of the table and make just one decision. Is that too much to ask of those of you that have devoted your whole life and all your energies to becoming a CEO? You can trust me to make that one decision, in a manner that will make you proud and will forever form a bond between us.

    I doubt I will get too many response's to my begging, but will watch my PM Box closely. Maybe David will read this and grant me just ONE moment of fame and glory.
    SP
    "96% of all Internet Quotes are suspect and the remaining 4% are fiction."
    ~~Abraham Lincoln~~

  10. #10
    Member Phil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Liverpool, NY (a suburb of Syracuse)
    Posts
    494

    Default Must be

    that Phish finder has more clout than I do (he has 2 green squares - I only have 1) but I didn't ask this to be put back on the Hunting Forum. I was perfectly happy to have it on the GD forum.

    As to the recent posts (Phish Finder & Akres) - I respectfully disagree with your posts.

    I did find it interesting that you suggested Race Car Driver for a day since I have 7 years of dirt stock car driving under my belt. Two kids in college finished my racing career - and I don't regret the decision 1 bit. Not any more than I regret shooting animals that happened to be "easy" although none were on "canned hunts".

    Well, one could argue about the animals I shot in Africa. It's interesting to me to look back at some of my hunts. Let's see, which were more wild? The African kudus that ran away when I shot the big one or the Alaskan Mt. Goats that just stood in place when I shot the big one? Yep, my Mt. Goat was one of 3 and, when I shot one, the other 2 just stood and looked at me. Well, that was years ago and maybe the ones today have learned to run. Oh, yes, the Kudu were within a fenced ranch of about 100,000 acres - the Goats were not.

    What does that story have to do with anything? EVERY hunting situation is different and rules that apply in some situations simply are irrelevant in other situations. Regardless of what some people believe.
    Last edited by Phil; 12-27-2008 at 12:39. Reason: additional information

  11. #11
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    6,031

    Default ethical hunting

    Being an ethical hunter that well represents and supports the sport has no prerequisite that one spend a certain amount of time in the field, nor does it require anyone's permission.

  12. #12
    Member bushrat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Now residing in Fairbanks from the bush
    Posts
    4,363

    Default

    Phil,

    Hey, happy new year to ya! I just read through this and I'm not sure your analogies really work, though I understand the basic intent of this thread I think: Don't diss those individuals who may hunt differently or consider "hunting" to be something entirely different than what others think.

    So yeah, don't diss the individual, but in some cases if what other hunters do may conflict or interfere with or somehow end up degrading hunting...I think some hunters should be able to criticize that practice. In fact I view it as a duty of sorts to do so.

    Keep in mind that someone else could carry your argument a bit farther to also justify canned hunts. Anything can be justified by some. "I work 80 hours a week, high pressure job; I don't have time to do public hunts and I want to fly in, have an animal guaranteed, and be out of there the same day."

    In such a case I wouldn't diss the individual, but I'd criticize that practice being associated with hunting. FYI, I have friends who've hunted on game ranches of varying acreages in various places, from Africa to Texas. Some just wanted some hog meat in the freezer, some were hoping for an African trophy and the overall experience of hunting in Africa. Don't think any less of them for doing so and don't consider them to be less of a hunter than me either. So if that's the basic message you want to get out, to not judge the individual, I'm with ya. Having said that though I think it's fair game to discuss various new hunting practices, and how those may affect perception of hunting and future of hunting etc.
    Cheers,

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    porcupine creek
    Posts
    225

    Default Tok

    Quite a few of us out here in Tok see the Anch./Fbks. crowd as some of you do Outside hunters , you sure wouldn't want to live here and do without the good paying jobs and all the fancy coffee shops but come fall you all sure want to be in this country crowding the people that live here .

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    I won't attempt to justify anything, but I will state: Too many people have been brought up wanting and recieving Instant Gratification. A three day hunt affords them that and continues to feed their incesant demands. Do I think it to be wrong? Indeed! Same kind of characters want to be Race Car Drivers for a day, Baseball Players for a week and so on. It fuels the Fantasy Realm. They aren't Hunters any more than they are Race Car Drivers or Baseball Players, but they do get the feeling that they are. IMO, it is a tragic path for Hunting to allow them to take. There should be a gate, on that path and hunters hold the key, in the form of peer pressure and tolerance and intolerance. Bottom line has to be; These folks are not Hunters, they are fantasy seekers.

    With enough money spent, anyone can be Queen For the Day or even take a ride into outer space, but they will never be Royalty or an Astronaut. Hunting is a fraternity and opening it up to wantabe's and those committed to it for only a day, serves to alter the heritage in a negative way.

    My first question is, What is a hunter? Do you have to spend "X' amount of time in the woods to be one? What you consider hunting may be unsportsmanlike to others.

    Second, how do you know they all have incesant demands?

    Third, Being that you spend more time than they do, does that make you less of a fantasy seeker?
    Are you as unimpressed with my signature block as I am with yours?

  15. #15
    Member ret25yo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Unit 13
    Posts
    1,471

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by logman View Post
    Quite a few of us out here in Tok see the Anch./Fbks. crowd as some of you do Outside hunters , you sure wouldn't want to live here and do without the good paying jobs and all the fancy coffee shops but come fall you all sure want to be in this country crowding the people that live here .
    does Glennallen count?.... you guys at least have a restaraunt...

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

  16. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Yukon Canada
    Posts
    1,289

    Default bushrat

    Bushrat very well said!! happy holidays to you and yours, Kayla made it down for xmas so alls well here!

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Eagle River
    Posts
    85

    Red face What part of hunting is fundamental

    Are you a good hunter if:

    If you use high powered optics and scopes?
    If you use scent control?
    If you wear high tech clothing?
    If you fly in rather than hike/boat/ski?
    How about a bow instead of a gun?
    What if you hike rather than ride that ATV or snowmobile?

    How does any of this differ from using the technology of others to put one on the game? (Did I just accidentally define methods of hunting from more traditional generations?)

    Well, I know that I use the best optics, clothing and other gear that I can. I also practice my shots to the point that I believe I can make a clean, one shot harvest if at all possible. I know my ranges and what terrain is ok for me. I work out in advance to be ready physically and prepare myself mentally for the effort. I also am prepared to properly clean and transport the results all without waste.

    I don't care about mounts per se, but do love the meat. But I would not hold the oppose against someone else.

    If someone is short of time and is well prepared otherwise, I don't know that I can judge them harshly for using that advantage.

  18. #18
    Member Phil's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Liverpool, NY (a suburb of Syracuse)
    Posts
    494

    Default Bushrat

    Well said & thanks for putting my thoughts into appropriate words. You must be a writer.

    Some of what gets put on this forum is too personal - and not enough in a general sense. You always "cut to the chase".

    Thanks again.

    Phil

  19. #19
    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Searching for more cowbell!
    Posts
    1,945

    Default

    Phil,
    Chickens run in a coop as well. That doesn't make them wild.
    I don't see the difference in hunting an elk behind a fence and hunting a cow in a pasture. They are both bred for a specific purpose. The instincts may be there, but the game changes when you grow up in a fenced area.
    ><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·..¸¸ ><((((º>`·.¸¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º>

    "People who drink light 'beer' don't like the taste of beer; they
    just like to pee a lot." --Capitol Brewery

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SwampView AK, Overlooking Mt. Mckinley and Points Beyond.
    Posts
    8,816

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by logman View Post
    Quite a few of us out here in Tok see the Anch./Fbks. crowd as some of you do Outside hunters , you sure wouldn't want to live here and do without the good paying jobs and all the fancy coffee shops but come fall you all sure want to be in this country crowding the people that live here .
    I'm glad there are only a "few" out there who think that Hunting in the TOK area should be reserved for the locals.

    Locals have the advantage because they live there. That should be enough. They have special privileges to hunt on Federal land, that is too much.

    OK, I know that's how you FEEL, but I don’t know how can your justify it.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •