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Thread: Barnes TTSX, compared to non tipped

  1. #1

    Default Barnes TTSX, compared to non tipped

    What do you guys think of the new Barnes TTSX? Do you think the addition of the polymer tip is a good thing or a bad thing? I hear one of the reasons it's there is to help initiate more rapid expansion. Is it possible that it may expand too rapidly on large game such as a brown bear? I know it would probably do the job but the question is am I sacrificing penetration with the new design due to the more rapid expansion. Would I be better off with the non tipped design?

    The specific load I'm wondering about is a 180 grain TTSX at 2900 fps out of a .300 win mag. I'm actually planning on using it for black bears, but I want a load that can do either in a pinch.

    Also, with the high weight retention the barnes have, is there any benefit to having a 180 grain bullet vs say a 165 or even 150? I know with traditional bullets, a 180 would penetrate much better, but the barnes is obviously not a traditional bullet.

  2. #2

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    The TTSX was basicaly designed to have a greater BC. I believe the ogive has a slightly different shape as well as the poly tip. If you're not shooting over 200 yds there probably wont be much of a terminal performance difference with the TSX. They are designed to open perform basically the same with a minimum opening vel of 1800 fps. But at that low vel, opening is very minimal, the petals don't peal back unless maybe they hit bone.

    As for penetration, the physics is the same as with any bullet. Other things being equal the greater the SD and momentum the greater the penetration. so a 180 gr bullet with greater momentum than a 165 will penetrate better. Also, since the solids typicaly retain more mass than bonded bullets a 180 TSX with the same vel will typically pentrate better than a 180 bonded bullet. The opening speed and diameter will also play a role in penetration the quicker and greater the mushroom diameter of a bullet the quicker it will slow down. Bottom line, the solids are typically better penetrators all else being equal.

    If you want first hand info, call Barnes and talk to a tech rep. They'll be glad to talk with you. Ask for Ty

  3. #3
    Member RMiller's Avatar
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    Default

    I have used the 200 TSX on deer and even it opens up just fine. These went 2900 FPS in my rifle.

    I think the TTSX opening quicker is just a bonus and I dont think penetration will be a problem. I have also shot moose with the 165XBT out of the 308 win.

    I was able to load the 180 XBT to 3150 so you should be able to get more than 2900 from the TTSX if you wanted to. H4831 and H4350 will both take the 180 over 3000+ in the 300 Win Mag.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

  4. #4
    Member AK Wonderer's Avatar
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    Default

    In the .30 cal the increased ballistic coefficient gained with the tipped Barnes is .31 in the 180 grain. If you plug the specs into the Hornady's ballistic calculator, the difference between the TXS and TTSX at 2900 fps is a gain 25 fps and 50 ft. lbs with the TTSX at 200 yds.

    Does this small increase in ballistics outweigh your concerns of penetration and outweigh the increased cost to purchase TTSX? In most calibers the increase in ballistic coefficient in very small and I don't see the cost increase of the TTSX as justified.

    I do plan on loading some TTSX in my .338. In this caliber I can increase my B.C from .386 in TSX to .514 in TTSX.

  5. #5
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    Default Barnes Bullets

    For a variety of reasons Barnes bullets are a perfect example of crafty marketing overcoming reality. I don't think the little plastic tip will remedy their major glaring inadequacy. Which is the tendency to poke itty-bitty holes clear through animals with very minimal shock effect.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by GAJ View Post
    I don't think the little plastic tip will remedy their major glaring inadequacy. Which is the tendency to poke itty-bitty holes clear through animals with very minimal shock effect.
    Have you actually witnessed this or are you just regurgitating what you heard or read somewhere? In the last 18 months I have killed a bear, sheep,moose, caribou and a blacktail deer with a regular TSX in one caliber or another and havent seen this itty bitty holes concept you speak of. Just curious?

    Heres a 415 yard impact on a caribou heart from a 257 Roy, is that hole is a wee bit bigger than 25 cal?
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    Default Barnes Poor Performance/No Effect

    Yes I've witnessed it many times. And no I don't generally regurgitate other peoples opinions. I mention this merely as a bit of caution to people who may not have had as much experience with this particular culprit as myself and others have. I congratulate you on your many successes with this bullet and I have witnessed a few as well. However, these are without a doubt in the minority in my experience. There are many excellent bullets available that perform far better so I have to ask; Why bother?

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    Default I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaCub View Post
    Have you actually witnessed this or are you just regurgitating what you heard or read somewhere? In the last 18 months I have killed a bear, sheep,moose, caribou and a blacktail deer with a regular TSX in one caliber or another and havent seen this itty bitty holes concept you speak of. Just curious?

    Heres a 415 yard impact on a caribou heart from a 257 Roy, is that hole is a wee bit bigger than 25 cal?
    I agree Cub. I went from Nosler Partitions to the Barnes X when they first came out years ago and have never gone back. Good expansion and superior bullet weight retention are the hallmarks of the Barnes X line.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by GAJ View Post
    Yes I've witnessed it many times. And no I don't generally regurgitate other peoples opinions. I mention this merely as a bit of caution to people who may not have had as much experience with this particular culprit as myself and others have. I congratulate you on your many successes with this bullet and I have witnessed a few as well. However, these are without a doubt in the minority in my experience. There are many excellent bullets available that perform far better so I have to ask; Why bother?
    I'll give you my $.02 and I am not picking a fight or anything , I just have seen a lot of people start chit storms about Barnes on the internet and this is my take on it.

    Barnes TSX Copper Bullets are not magical, meaning that you cant shoot an animal in the poop chute and have it magically make it through the entire body cavity and have it heat seek through the heart or lungs and exit out and break an off side shoulder. They have to be placed in the same spots that cup and core or bonded bullets. I have witnessed these "Failed" Barnes bullet performance threads on many forums and when you get to the heart of it the shots that are often taken with the magical Barnes TSX are unethical and when they dont do what the shooter wanted them to do, they then blame the bullet and call it a failure. I have intentionally alternated between shoulder shots and clean vital shots as I have experimented killing with Barnes TSX bullets and have come to the conclusion that they do kill very well, they do break bone with no problem so if you into eating stuff you shoot, hitting an on side shoulder is gonna shred some stuff up because they penetrate like nothing I have ever seen and I have only recovered one Barnes bullet to date, which I suspect severed the lower leg bone of a 400+ lb black bear that was rolling around cartwheeling as I emptied my 338 WM into it at 30 yards and that bullet ended up in the hide. Theres lots of choices out there for hunters looking for good bullets and from what I can tell they all work fairly well. Pick one that works for you and kill stuff. My personal favorites for "Alaskan" animals have been the A-Frame, TBBC, and the TSX's. If I was hunting whitetails in the lower 48 cup and cores would work fine, though I would be highly tempted to shoot some super sonic small for caliber TSX's with no hesitation.

    In reference to the TTSX vs TSX question, I believe that the primary reason they came out with the TSX is really to help them open up better at longer ranges and or for slower shooting calibers at not soo far ranges. I dont peronally believe that either the TSX or TTSX are meant to be shot through slow guns unless you downsize the bullet weight and push it faster. Barnes was just trying to please the non-magnum crowd that were not experiencing good expansion with the regular TSX. My take on TSX's or TTSX's is drive em fast,as fast as you can! If you shooting a 30-06 as opposed ot a 300 WM or 300 WSM shoot lighter for caliber bullets like a 165 or 150 instead of a 180, the lighter for caliber TSX will out penetrate a heavier bonded bullet anyway , me thinks. The TSX's are good bullets but one must understand how they work and what they are made of or they could be using the wrong bullet for the job.

  10. #10
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    Default phil

    read Phil Shoemakers story in this months rifle mag. no one has more experience with bullets/rifles than this guy he is the real deal. Barnes bullets work period. As a guide there is no other bullet i would rather see a client have, no other bullet except a solid will penetrate deeper, this has been proven in to many tests to name! only downside is the price!!

  11. #11
    Member Bighorse's Avatar
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    Default Spinal shots

    I shot a 25-06 all year using Nosler balistic tips and I was always disappointed when I ended up hitting a humerus or scapula because that little bullet would fragment and make a huge blood shot mess on the blacktail I've shot. I still shoot Noslers because they are accurate and dead is dead. I do load TSX and MRX bullets in my .30 cal rifles and have dropped a few critters with em. When I watched a coastal brownie drop with a single shot that cleanly busted both shoulder and thoraxic spine with a Barnes solid I was sold. I whacked a blacktail with a 185g MRX this fall and WOW that was devistating. Like those posting before I've got a variety of preferences and what ever floats your boat do it. After all were out there to enjoy and you might as well choose whatever makes you smile.

    As long as you do your job all the high end bullets perform to an acceptable degree.

    So get to your benches boys and bang out some new rounds we got a few months till spring bear and even longer for the mountain hunters. If your lucky you'll have a new rifle to break in.

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by GAJ View Post
    Yes I've witnessed it many times. And no I don't generally regurgitate other peoples opinions. I mention this merely as a bit of caution to people who may not have had as much experience with this particular culprit as myself and others have. I congratulate you on your many successes with this bullet and I have witnessed a few as well. However, these are without a doubt in the minority in my experience. There are many excellent bullets available that perform far better so I have to ask; Why bother?
    Many times? Interesting... I haven't shot any TSX's at game yet, but your story is very inconsistant with many threads that I've read. Here is a review found at Reloadersnest with about 31 testamonies and out of that only one was negative.

    http://www.reloadersnest.com/review_...t=Barnes%20TSX

    As far as shock goes check out the video of a TSX penetrating a block of gelatin.

    http://www.barnesbullets.com/informa...h-speed-video/

    You are the first person that I have ever heard or read to claim The TSX's lack of performance "many times". Forgive me for being skeptical.

  13. #13
    Member AK Wonderer's Avatar
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    Default Can't go wrong with Barnes.

    Handloaded 225 gr TSX in .338. Both animals shot this year. Barnes hit hard and penetrate like advertised. If you hit much bone you will lose some of the petals, but will still have deadly effects. The bullet that hit the bison went through the facing shoulder, the ribs, then the opposite shoulder and was found in the meat just under the hide. Dropped her in her tracks.

    Recovered two rounds I put into the the vitals on the moose. One lost some petals the other was fully intact. Both left wound channels larger than a quarter, one I think you could have put a golf ball through.

    Barnes are now my go to bullet for large game.
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  14. #14
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    Most everything I would say about the X bullets has already been said by other posters. I started shooting the original X bullet back in the mid-late 1990s. This past summer I transitioned to the 225 grain TTSX in .338 because I finally exhausted my supply of handloaded original Xs. Up to this past spring, I have taken the following animals with the original Barnes X 225 grain 338 Win Mag with no bullet failures of any kind. I'm not posting this to brag, just to provide you with some additional real world bullet performance. Many people have taken much more game than I have.

    7 Sitka Blacktails
    2 Caribou
    3 Moose
    1 Brown bear
    1 Black bear
    1 Mountain goat

    I have also assisted friends in killing the following animals:

    1 Moose
    2 Brown Bears
    1 Interior Grizz
    1 ornery California hog

    Do I think Barnes X bullets work? Absolutely. I have no reason to believe the TTSXs will be any different. One note of caution:

    Last February, on the Weatherby Nation forum they offered an online chat with Randy Brooks owner of Barnes Bullets. I asked him about the need to crimp cases with the new TTSX because of the reduced bearing surface of the bullets (because of the grooves cut in them). He recommended a light crimp to hold the bullet in place. I don't like crimping bullets and I haven't crimped any of my newest TTSX handloads. I shoot a muzzle braked 338 WM and don't believe the recoil will move the bullet in the case so I'm not gonna crimp unless I run into problems. Others who have already been using the TTSX may be able to weigh in on the crimping issue. Other than this minor point, I'm sold on Barnes bullets.

  15. #15

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    Thanks, I appreciate the input. I guess the other question is on bullet weight. AlaskaCub mentioned that faster is better for the Barnes. What would you say is the optimum bullet weight for a .300 win (TTSX) for large game such as moose or brown bear?

  16. #16

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    I would go with the most accurate between the 168 or 180 TTSX and take the 180 if they were close. A larger bullet of same cal will penetrate better which is what you want for big bears. Having said that, I would also recommend looking tat the 180 E-Tip, and if you can get it to shoot as well as the others I would go with that. The E-Tips are made from a guilded metal and are a little tougher than the TSX/TTSX's and will hold their petals at greater vlocoites and trauma.

    My $.02

  17. #17
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    Default

    I'd shoot 180s if my gun liked em. With regards to trying the Nosler E-Tip, I'm sure it will work too although if you do a google search you'll find a few other posters (can't remember which website) who found the TTSXs penetrate a little deeper than the E-Tip in their informal tests.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by sep View Post
    I'd shoot 180s if my gun liked em. With regards to trying the Nosler E-Tip, I'm sure it will work too although if you do a google search you'll find a few other posters (can't remember which website) who found the TTSXs penetrate a little deeper than the E-Tip in their informal tests.
    That's true, The TSX's penerate deeper because the E-Tips open up more. The trade off being a slightly larger wound channel and more enrgy imparted. Which would be best for a large bear? Good question.

  19. #19
    Member shphtr's Avatar
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    Default

    Do TSX's kill ? - I think that has been unequivocally answered to any reasonable person's satisfaction! I feel I need to note something that to date has not been brought up but which I am sure everyone is well aware of: that is 90% of killing is bullet placement above all else. In my experience, I have found the TSX's to be very accurate in most of the rifles that I shoot regularly. Hence for me they are very deadly because they are very accurate, penetrate well, and leave an amazing wound channel more often than not. And what about the TTSX bullet - can't say, haven't shot it...yet. I do know that most of my loads have their OAL limited not by the distance to the lands but by magazine length which means the TTSX's will take up a little more powder space which will only affect the compressed loads probably. Anyway, my $.02 worth.

  20. #20

    Default I only use tsx's

    I use them in my .300 wsm and .375 ultra mag.

    I first took my .300 wsm to Africa with me. I was using the federal loaded 180 grain tsx's. I took a kudu, red hartebeest, 2 oryx, 2 warthogs, 2 springboks, and a mountain zebra. All were one shot kills and all had total penetration, no recoveries. Those bullets impressed my PH so much that he switched to them.

    I have recently loaded the 168 grain for the .300wsm and will probably stick to that bullet as at 100 yards, I had the bullets touching each other in a 3 shot group. We killed a large cow at over 300 yards and my daughter shot her 60" bull at 250 yards plus with them and it was total penetration.

    Yes, some of the bullets enters with a small hole and exit with a small hole, but dead is dead and the devastation that the bullets create inside the animal is amazing. I will only use TSX's until something better comes along.

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