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Thread: outfitter busted

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    Unhappy outfitter busted

    On Sept.10,2006, Alaskan State Troopers ended my hunt because of violations by my Alaskan outfitter.Troopers apologized to my group stating we were not at fault but they had been monitoring this guide for some time. Can anyone suggest what I can do to possible recover any of our money,in excess of 30K. Or any actions that we may take against this outfitter?

  2. #2
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Have you talked to a lawyer yet? I'm guessing that's the route you're going to have to take. Ask around there in TX, but you might be better served by an Alaskan lawyer that is familiar with our game laws.

    -Brian

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    Default busted outfitter

    Brian, probably headed that way. Wondering if he was required to carry some type of insurance to protect his clients against hunt interuption.

  4. #4

    Unhappy Busted?

    These questions need to be asked, what was he busted for, where you hunting out of and finally who was the outfitter? The reason this is important is other guys must have been affected and they may want to get in touch with you to work in a larger action.

    This type of thing is a big black eye on hunting in our state and I hope you guys are asking lots of questions before you pony up your deposits. We had a similar problem up here in Kotz this fall and more people who know the less damage these unscrupulous outfitters/transporters will do next year

  5. #5

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    I sent you a pm on this issue. Hopefully it helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by derouenm View Post
    On Sept.10,2006, Alaskan State Troopers ended my hunt because of violations by my Alaskan outfitter.Troopers apologized to my group stating we were not at fault but they had been monitoring this guide for some time. Can anyone suggest what I can do to possible recover any of our money,in excess of 30K. Or any actions that we may take against this outfitter?


    So what other game violations occurred on this hunt?

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    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    The term "outfitter" is incorrect here. That's why the bust occurred........I believe one of the charges was guiding without a license. Only a "guide" may "outfit" a hunt or hunter. The business involved in this discussion was a TRANSPORTER!
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
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    Somebody involved in this incident is watching these forums very closely. Here is a copy of an e-mail from somebody involved.

    "
    <The transporter> also had violations as stated on page 10, paragraphs 3-4. He was not cited for these.
    "



    Don't have a clue what the sender means by page 10 paragraph 3-4. I looked in the Regulation book and could not find any reference to anything about this thread.
    Last edited by Webmaster; 09-27-2006 at 22:27.

  9. #9
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default A clue

    Quote Originally Posted by AlleninAlaska View Post
    Somebody involved in this incident is watching these forums very closely. Here is a copy of an e-mail from somebody involved.

    "
    <The transporter> also had violations as stated on page 10, paragraphs 3-4. He was not cited for these.
    "



    Don't have a clue what the sender means by page 10 paragraph 3-4. I looked in the Regulation book and could not find any reference to anything about this thread.
    Allen,

    Just speculating, but might he be referring to page 10, paragraph four of the Alaska Hunting Regulations? Here's what I found there:

    "Hunters should be aware that except for a registered or master guide it is illegal for anyone to provide for compensatoin any supplies, equipment or services (other than transportation) to a big game hunter in the field. In other words, transporters and individuals cannot legally provide for compensation vehicles, fuel, bear bait and/or stations, camping, hunting or game processing equipment or any hunting services such as cleaning of game, glassing, packing, etc. from a permanent or nonpermanent structure in the field or on a boat on saltwater.

    Licensed transporters may provide transportation services and accommodations (room and board) only at a personally-owned permanent structure in the field, or on a boat on saltwater. It is illegal for a transporter to accompany or remain in the field at a non-permanent structure with a big game hunter who is a client of the person except as necessary to perform transportation services.

    Unlicensed individuals cannot legally provide transportation service or accommodations for compensation."


    Perhaps that's the section they were talking about.

    -Mike
    Last edited by Webmaster; 09-27-2006 at 22:27.
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  10. #10

    Default Maybe legal?

    after reading the law in the post above, I wonder if your legally transporting clients via raft down a river on a multi-day trip say 50-100 miles, would you not have to be in the field daily? to perform necessary transportation services daily? as quoted "It is illegal for a transporter to accompany or remain in the field at a non-permanent structure with a big game hunter who is a client of the person except as necessary to perform transportation services". There's probably more to this, but thats my thoughts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by profishguide View Post
    after reading the law in the post above, I wonder if your legally transporting clients via raft down a river on a multi-day trip say 50-100 miles, would you not have to be in the field daily? to perform necessary transportation services daily? as quoted "It is illegal for a transporter to accompany or remain in the field at a non-permanent structure with a big game hunter who is a client of the person except as necessary to perform transportation services". There's probably more to this, but thats my thoughts.

    My thoughts exactly Frank.

  12. #12
    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Transporter

    You guys keep mentioning "Transporter". Doesn't a transporter need a license? According to the state web site on licensing <the transporter> did not have a license. Or, is the state web site in error?

    Just go there and type in any name you want, you do not have to put the code in such as "T" for transporter or "G" for guide. Just the persons name.
    Last edited by Webmaster; 09-27-2006 at 22:26.

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    How about Business Name?

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    Moderator Daveinthebush's Avatar
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    Default Business Name

    You don't need a business name. License's for guides and transportes are given to individuals.

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    Default compensation

    It definitely seems like a more complex case than first glance. You can see the confusion if you know people aren’t clear about the game laws yet you are prohibited from having any contact in the field particularly advising anyone and can only provide transportation. Or what if you see a violation going to occur but you cannot contact or advise anyone you are pretty much stuck with getting involved with people breaking the law. As far as getting your money back, I think it depends on the legal outcome. If the hunt was ended because of violations of some of the hunters causing law enforcement to intervene then the money may be gone. But if the transporter actually has no credentials to do what you paid him to do you probably will have a case to get the money back. In this case where both parties may have violations the court may order some compensations after the case in adjudicated (Like the transporter paying back the clients who use the money to pay their fines), but I probably watch too much court tv…

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    There was no signed contract stating what was or was not to be provided by the transporter.

  17. #17

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    I got an email too.

    Here's a question for you all. Why were they sitting on Kisaralik Lake if they were on a "float" trip. I mean, they had a enough time to fly in to the lake, wait a whole day, the next day, shoot a cow caribou, have the troopers come in, and then get busted for an illegal animal and guiding w/o a license.

    Maybe that is why the troopers were quick to hand out tickets to <the transporter>. They were camped on Kis Lake and not needing a "guide" to row the boat. I don't know, just an idea.
    Last edited by Webmaster; 09-27-2006 at 22:25.

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    Default Alaska Law

    From Alaska department of commerce website. (Current statutes have apparently changed the value of goods to $5000 to require a written contract.) Wow, anyone hiring a guide have better have a written agreement or you are toast.

    "All agreements should be in writing, no matter how minor they seem, to ensure that each party understands what they are agreeing to and to document this fact. Under Alaska Law AS 45.02.201 (seeThe Current Alaska Statutes) governing commercial transactions, the sale of goods valued at more than $500 must be in writing. Contracts can be made verbally by speaking the intent of both parties; however, verbal contracts are more difficult to enforce in the courts. The fact that an agreement was not put in writing is not proof that a contract was not made. We recommend not relying on spoken agreements since they may later be remembered differently by each party."

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    Exclamation About this thread

    Quote Originally Posted by derouenm View Post
    On Sept.10,2006, Alaskan State Troopers ended my hunt because of violations by my Alaskan outfitter.Troopers apologized to my group stating we were not at fault but they had been monitoring this guide for some time. Can anyone suggest what I can do to possible recover any of our money,in excess of 30K. Or any actions that we may take against this outfitter?
    I have edited and deleted a number of posts in this thread. The editing removed the name of the accused. I deleted a number of posts because they seemed to be a spillover from another thread on this topic that I deleted. See my post on this subject.

    Any additional posts on this topic must omit the name of the accused. The discussion of transporter and guide regulations, and violations of same, can be useful; naming names is not.

    David
    Last edited by Webmaster; 09-27-2006 at 22:56.

  20. #20
    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    Default No Contest

    Not trying to stir any pots. But it seems the case has ended with a No Contest plea....To six counts of Guiding Big Game hunters without a License.

    I understand the rules concerning not posting links or naming names.

    Proof of this can be found in the Trooper Dispatches. Date 11-29-2006,
    case number 06-81407

    I realize that referring people to the Trooper Dispatches may be a forum violation, however this particular dispatch directly states the outcome of the trial itself, not just allegations of guilt, hope I didn't step on any toes or cross any lines.

    I guess this can end the speculation and hopefully serve as a cautionary tale for people planning future trips.
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

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