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Thread: using the rep system

  1. #1
    Member big_dog60's Avatar
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    Default using the rep system

    I don't know about the tecnical issues and it may be a mute point but it seems like there is a rather rebelious group hear trying to thwart the admin/mods of the site. Thought I understand and even sympathize in some instances, I think it shows a major flaw in the rep system. Essentially we are seeing people rewarded for pushing the limits. I know that the admin/mods think that it will settle down and it may, but I suspect that the vast majority of rep is thrown out in the GD forum. I am not convinced that this will change.

    I can only think of 2 things that may help.

    1. to allow members to decrease or request decrease in rep.

    2. not allow rep to be given out on the GD forum.

    I suppose as mentioned several times the GD forum could be eliminated. I'm not sure I like that because there are relevant issues that don't fall into any specific forum.

    I like the ability to give people a pat on the back for being helpful so I don't realy want to see the rep system gone, but I think some thing needs to change to make the system function as desired.

    any way what do people think? are there any better way to handle this?

  2. #2

    Default

    Bigdog,

    I agree with you. If I had to pick on of your answers I'd probably opt for not allowing rep points in the GD. That way if new users get some advice from someone with decent rep points about something actually outdoor related they can better assume that the person giving the advice may actually know what he is talking about on a given issue.

    oppose to someone giving info on something that is just getting a bunch of rep for posting youtube videos/ fun games/ or other non-outdoor related info in the GD forum. Don't get me wrong that stuff is good and all but its my feeling that this is an OUTDOOR forum first. However, I would like to see the GD forum remain as like you mentioned it can be a good place to discuss issues that do not fall into other particular forums here.

    Like you I think this rep system can work but needs to be tweaked a bit as you described.

  3. #3
    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    Is it not an "atta boy" system... ???

    Is it not used to encourage discusion between members?

    If it was just for "meaningful" posts, that would only be at the discretion of "certain individuals"



    either way .. those recieving rep are Benefiting the forum in one way or another..

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

  4. #4
    Member big_dog60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ret25yo View Post
    Is it not an "atta boy" system... ???

    Is it not used to encourage discusion between members?

    If it was just for "meaningful" posts, that would only be at the discretion of "certain individuals"



    either way .. those recieving rep are Benefiting the forum in one way or another..
    I am not sure how it benifits the forum. Could you explain?

  5. #5
    Member ret25yo's Avatar
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    well if we work backwards we see...

    have rep

    to get that rep you have to participate in a thread...

    to participate in a thread you must visit this forum...

    to visit this forum you must be a member...

    this member statistic status helps the forum maintain advertisements sales and sponsorships..


    High member # = High sponsorship $





    I could care less about green dots ... but it is something to have fun with... and a little encouragement to come out from the shadows and participate...

    If you cant stand behind the troops in Iraq.. Feel free to stand in front of them.

  6. #6
    Member big_dog60's Avatar
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    Default

    hmm, ok, so you think membership and partition are higher because of the rep system?

    Well I don't know, but it certanly does create some colorful threads in the GD forum.

    Just as a note I didn't suggest getting rid of it I just think that with a few changes it would be more represtitive of the intent.

  7. #7
    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by big_dog60 View Post
    I don't know about the tecnical issues and it may be a mute point but it seems like there is a rather rebelious group hear trying to thwart the admin/mods of the site.
    How is disagreeing with a policy, and stating that disagreement "trying to thwart the admins/mods"?


    Thought I understand and even sympathize in some instances, I think it shows a major flaw in the rep system.
    If folks are "blinging" members because they agree with their stance, how is that a flaw?


    Essentially we are seeing people rewarded for pushing the limits.
    If people don't "push the limits", or a better way to say it, voice their opposition to what they perceive as a improper use of policy(ies), how do we as a forum, and a society, grow???

    Our Forefathers "Pushed the limits".....And thankfully so.....

    I know that the admin/mods think that it will settle down and it may, but I suspect that the vast majority of rep is thrown out in the GD forum. I am not convinced that this will change.
    A good number (speaking for myself) of my points derive from forums other than GD....

    I can only think of 2 things that may help.
    I can think of many more than 2, but we'll set that aside for now...

    1. to allow members to decrease or request decrease in rep.
    If you feel the current system is flawed (or abused) why wouldn't that suggestion only exacerbate the problem?

    2. not allow rep to be given out on the GD forum.
    There is a lot of good topics and info given out in GD.....Why not allow folks to acknowledge it at their disctretion??

    I suppose as mentioned several times the GD forum could be eliminated.
    And still might be it seems.

    I'm not sure I like that because there are relevant issues that don't fall into any specific forum.
    And you wish to remove the ability to reward folks with rep for contributing to relevant issues?

    I like the ability to give people a pat on the back for being helpful so I don't realy want to see the rep system gone, but I think some thing needs to change to make the system function as desired.
    With all respect, you seem to be seeking perfection.

    It doesn't exist....

    any way what do people think? are there any better way to handle this?
    Yes, and No.....
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

  8. #8
    Member SoggyMountain's Avatar
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    Default

    I don't understand it at all. But, I'm happily ignorant.

    As far as I'm concerned, the site is owned and operated by someone who, has the right to refuse service.

    It is not America, and does not operate under any constitutional law. It's just a web site.

    When it is fun it is really fun. But, like a bartender, the mods feel an obligation to keeping the peace and will at times, ask the disruptive guest to leave.

    I guess I don't really have a problem with that. I've been known to be the loud mouth on the bar stool - That's okay. It seems the door is almost always open, and where there is offense, it isn't long held between reasoning minds.

    I guess I just don't care about the rules as much as I do the laughs. And, that always brings me back to the GD.
    "...just because we didn't agree with you doesn't mean we didn't have good discussion. It just means you missed it." -JMG-

  9. #9
    Member big_dog60's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlaskaHippie View Post
    How is disagreeing with a policy, and stating that disagreement "trying to thwart the admins/mods"?
    Well It looks like there is a lot more then stating a disagreement going on. Some of the threads have become an "Us vs. Them" type thing.

    If folks are "blinging" members because they agree with their stance, how is that a flaw?
    That is not nessecerily a flaw.

    If people don't "push the limits", or a better way to say it, voice their opposition to what they perceive as a improper use of policy(ies), how do we as a forum, and a society, grow???
    Well past pushing the limits has not helped this forum grow. I would say it has lead to the further restrictions that we see now.

    Our Forefathers "Pushed the limits".....And thankfully so.....
    yes, I would say they more then just pushed the limits. Pushing or even breaking the rules in some instances can be a good thing. I just think in this instance it will only make things worse.

    A good number (speaking for myself) of my points derive from forums other than GD....
    Well good perhaps I have percieved things as worse then they are.

    I can think of many more than 2, but we'll set that aside for now...
    Why? I started the thread for Ideas on how to improve the rep system.

    If you feel the current system is flawed (or abused) why wouldn't that suggestion only exacerbate the problem?
    maybe, but my thought was that things might even out more, but I could be wrong.

    There is a lot of good topics and info given out in GD.....Why not allow folks to acknowledge it at their disctretion??

    And still might be it seems.

    And you wish to remove the ability to reward folks with rep for contributing to relevant issues?

    With all respect, you seem to be seeking perfection.

    It doesn't exist....

    Yes, and No.....
    Yes I acknowledge that there is good stuff on the GD forum, and I know that the system will never be perfect. I don't know why you think I am seeking perfection. Removing the general discussion from the rep system certanly would have it's down side.

  10. #10
    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    Hey Big dog,

    It seems that you are very dis-satisfied with the rep system. Your stance may be correct. I took some of your posts, both now and in the past, as deliberate attempts to knock forum members. With the current rep system, a week must pass before any number padding can occur. That's with an aggressive rep adding style. I can't give rep to a lot of people that I think deserve it because I get the message that I must spread the love.

    I didn't expect to receive any rep when this rep thing started. I was in the midst of quite a few of the GD discussions that closed the section for a while, I may even be partly to blame.

    That being said, I don't have any disdain for you at all but you seem to find frustration with a system that seems to work for almost everyone else. I applaud the change from unlimited hits to 5 per day max and 30 before you can hit someone again. This cuts down on the chances of the system being abused. I haven't given out more than 2 or 3 rep in a single day since the first rush of opening the new toy.

    It's balancing out. IF you are mad about the amount of rep you have received, make more positive posts.
    Negative posts don't seem to draw the people together. Negativity breeds negativity.
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  11. #11
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Must disagree-

    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    ...you seem to find frustration with a system that seems to work for almost everyone else...
    I think the jury is still out on that, Fish. We've had a lot of abuse, as you know. Things like, "you gave me some, here's some back at ya", "I got dinged by a Mod, could someone fling some bling my way", and "gee, we agree on a lot of stuff, so maybe we could help each other out with some rep points". Not pointing at anyone here, but such awards miss the intent of this.

    The hope is that once the novelty wears off, we'll start seeing reputations rise for folks who actually contribute something tangibly positive to the forums. It's going to take time to see if it's really working or if it should be abandoned. But I disagree that it is working for almost everyone else...

    -Mike
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  12. #12
    Member AlaskaHippie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Strahan View Post
    I think the jury is still out on that, Fish. We've had a lot of abuse, as you know. Things like, "you gave me some, here's some back at ya", "I got dinged by a Mod, could someone fling some bling my way"
    Mike I NEVER started that thread in THAT tone, and that quote is completely inaccurate......I started that thread asking a legitimate question. I did NOT solicit any rep points. I received a LOT of points, and from what the comments said in my User CP, those points where for the most part given because of folks agreeing with the intent of what I said on the locked thread.....



    The hope is that once the novelty wears off, we'll start seeing reputations rise for folks who actually contribute something tangibly positive to the forums. It's going to take time to see if it's really working or if it should be abandoned. But I disagree that it is working for almost everyone else...

    -Mike


    Gee......Glad to know those of us with high reps aren't contributing anything tangible.......
    “Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously.” ― H.S.T.
    "Character is how you treat those who can do nothing for you."

  13. #13
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default making a point-

    Hi Hippie,

    I was paraphrasing, not quoting. Trying to make the point that the reputation system is being hijacked, but that it hopefully won't remain that way. I intentionally exaggerated to make the point.

    It's ironic that it would be abused, because it is intended as a benefit to the very members who are misusing it. Hijacking it for other purposes erodes the very credibility it is supposed to build.

    Time will tell...

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
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    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
    "I have climbed my mountain, but I must still live my life." - Tenzig Norgay

  14. #14
    Member Phish Finder's Avatar
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    What's the majic number? Who overlooks which forums?


    Michael,

    I greatly respect your opinion. Your experiences far supercede mine when it comes to bush Alaska.

    Please define "tangibly positive"?

    Is it stories of ending life with your knee? Is it a fleeting glimpse of a smile due to a humorous post? Is it Lujon as a Gator?

    I hate to stare at a pot of chili that needs a stir if I'm not willing to grab a spatula and dive in.

    What is your best case scenario for this discussion?
    ><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸¸.·´¯`·..¸¸ ><((((º>`·.¸¸¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º>

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  15. #15
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Just my opinion-

    Quote Originally Posted by Phish Finder View Post
    What's the majic number? Who overlooks which forums?


    Michael,

    I greatly respect your opinion. Your experiences far supercede mine when it comes to bush Alaska.

    Please define "tangibly positive"?

    Is it stories of ending life with your knee? Is it a fleeting glimpse of a smile due to a humorous post? Is it Lujon as a Gator?

    I hate to stare at a pot of chili that needs a stir if I'm not willing to grab a spatula and dive in.

    What is your best case scenario for this discussion?
    Phish,

    Probably the best explanation I can give is a personal opinion. The purpose of this website is to promote Alaska outdoor activities. It does so by offering news, a book and video store, a listing of goods and service providers, and a forum where people can interact with each other. What makes this site unique is the people of Alaska themselves. For Alaskans, everything is about relationships and community. There are lots of reasons for that, but in the end, Alaskans are among the friendliest, most welcoming people I have known. So it's not surprising that on our way to providing good information, a community has formed. It changes from time to time, sometimes for the better and sometimes in ways that cause concern. But it is there.

    When I made the comment about people who provide information that is "tangibly positive", I was thinking of practical information that helps people who are looking for information about the Alaska outdoors. But in thinking about it this morning, I realized that even contributions that enhance the sense of community have great value. So I would modify my earlier statement by saying that the reputation system is intended to draw attention to people who are known to provide a welcoming environment to outsiders, who provide accurate, relevant content related to the Alaska outdoors, and who provide positive contributions that build this community of Alaskans and guests. I know that misses a lot, but that's generally what I mean.

    In that sense, when it comes to the reputation system, its success or failure depends on how we use it. In a perfect world, when I see someone with high reputation points, I could expect them to provide reliable information, with an attitude that makes me feel welcome.

    As I see it, the main beneficiaries of the reputation system are visitors or new members who don't know us yet. I hope we can work together to ensure the value of the system, so it will have meaning and serve a real purpose.

    Sorry for rambling... I hope it makes sense? As you can see, I'm still trying to figure some of this out.

    As to which mods have what forums, I don't remember. Initially the forums were divided among us, but I think most of the mods have access to all the forums for moderation purposes now. Brian M would be best for that one, but he's on vacation right now.

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
    Mob: 1 (907) 229-4501
    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
    "I have climbed my mountain, but I must still live my life." - Tenzig Norgay

  16. #16
    Member big_dog60's Avatar
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    Well I thought about your post for a bit Phish before responding. I'll try to explain my motavation a little better. I had no intention of attacking any specific member. If that is how it came off then I appoligise. I will say that I get frustrated by some of the abuse of the rep system and have on a couple occasions made comments about that.(I am assuming those are the post you are refering to)

    I actually like the system, and want to see it function as desired. I do not feel like I have been shorted. I find myself being helped more then helping others.

    I hope you are right about the system balancing it's self out.

  17. #17
    Member Vince's Avatar
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    I am going to throw in my .02... and state that 99% of my rep has come from post out side the GD forum. and that should be reflected by my time here, as a relatively new member yet... July 2008. and i have reached 924 posts not including the GD or sale forums. i do give point for COMMUNITY participation as well as informational postings. regardless of how a person VIEWS an ON LINE forum.. we all have some semblance of a "personal relationship" we make on line friends, get our own opinions modified on occasion, and help with "UNDERSTANDING" an issue when need be.. it is great to have the resource to ask... "Hey! what you all know about this....?" heck DAD gets tired of it at times...

    and as far at the GD threads...... you know you can only participate in SO many " what type of gun, or bullet threads" at a time. The GD gives a place for people to relax and just talk LIKE adults do... get a group of hunters together, and the conversation will wander to and from hunting over the course of the evening... it is just the way people communicate... look at EVERY threads ending.. and how many ended on the beginning subject?
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

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  18. #18
    Member big_dog60's Avatar
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    Ok, well it looks like I might be wrong.

  19. #19
    Member nategr's Avatar
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    almost everyone phish, havent blinged up yet, but I have been in the market the past few weeks. Tough work squeezing pennies out of those stocks.

    And I see Vince has added some more Bling.

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