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Thread: Numerous threads searched... no answer on 30-06...

  1. #1

    Default Numerous threads searched... no answer on 30-06...

    The 30-06 seems to have gained aproval as a universal round in AK, as has 45-70, I already have the 30-06 and in the context of AK see it as a second gun for bou, deer, sheep, goat, and blackie. If I were to grab it before the (yet to be bought) 45-70 I would like a load that is lighter/faster/flatter than the cheap factory 180's, how far can you home-loaders push an '06? any trials/errors? 45-70 will work for the moose and bear protection rifle, would be nice if that '06 was a bit flatter shooting for everything else.

  2. #2
    Member AKFishOn's Avatar
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    Default

    I been on hunts with other or shot bear 3 times with a 30-06, although I prefer the 338, I think shot placement is the most important element. BTW 2 of the brown bears were over 8'10" that went down with a single shot from the 30-06, one dropped and did not even move.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AKFishOn View Post
    I been on hunts with other or shot bear 3 times with a 30-06, although I prefer the 338, I think shot placement is the most important element. BTW 2 of the brown bears were over 8'10" that went down with a single shot from the 30-06, one dropped and did not even move.
    Yeah... I just don't realy see a need to shoot a brown bear unless he's trying to eat me, I've got no need to hunt him... If he tries to eat me on a fishing trip that'd be the 45-70 (or .44 pistol)... but if he tries to eat me with the '06 in my hand on a hunting trip I'm fine with that too... any load... just would like to see a flat one.

  4. #4
    Member Phil's Avatar
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    Default Fusion

    If your looking for a flat shooting 06 load, try the Federal Fusion, 150 grain for the 06. It comes out the barrel close to 3000 ft/sec and I use it on pronghorns up to 400 yards. It should work fine on anything smaller than an elk.

    BTW, I have shot 2 Sitka blacktails with that load and it works fine. Leaves a big exit wound so it would be easy to track (if it's needed). Much easier than handloads (which I used to do).

    My new 300 WSM is going to shoot Fusions if it "likes" them.

  5. #5

    Smile The 30-06 that you're thinking of

    is called a .270.

  6. #6

    Default Flatter 06' Cartridge

    You may want to pick up the "Light Mag" Hornady's or similar, either in 150's or 165's. They pretty much put you up to 300 Mag velocities.

  7. #7
    Member Mkay's Avatar
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    Default All Around Rifle

    Most folks I know feel the 338 Mag is the best all round gun. Plenty of power for everything.
    I would agree even though I do not own one.

  8. #8

    Default Funny Guy...

    Quote Originally Posted by 257wby View Post
    is called a .270.
    If I had to go buy another I would be torn between .243 and .270... however I've always been one to use what I've got before running out to get new toys... My Father built my '06, it was his first gun, it shoots straight, kills animals well, so I see no need to change... just looking for an improvement.

  9. #9
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    Default How flat shooting do you want?

    How flat you can safely get an '06 to shoot depends on several factors: weight (and ballistic co-efficient) of the bullet you want to shoot, the characteristics of your particular chamber/barrel, length of barrel, etc. In a standard factory 22" factory barrel chambered in '06 you should probably expect to achieve velocities in the following ranges:

    150 gr: 2550-2850 fps
    165 gr: 2500-2800 fps
    180 gr: 2450-2750 fps

    If interested only in shooting 180 gr bullets you will be very, very lucky (depending on your particular barrel) to get 2850-2900 fps from a 24" barrel.

    If you are willing to drop to 150's you may, again with luck, get 3000-3050 fps from a 24" barrel. 165's will be somewhere in between.

    Shorter barrels (@ 22") will give somewhat slower velocities and even shorter (@ 20" or 18") will produce slower velocities (and will generally do better with somewhat faster burning powders).

    Every chamber/barrel has it's own characteristics and will have its own pattern of accuracy and velocity with various powders, bullets, brass, primers.

    That said, powders have some general burning characteristics that tend to generate similar velocities across various calibers/barrels.

    Some of the powders that tend to show highest velocities in the '06 in various reloading manuals are:

    150 gr: H380, H414, IMR 4064, IMR 4350, Reloader 15, Reloader 19
    165 gr: W760, Reloader 19, Reloader 22, IMR 4350, H4350
    180 gr: Reloader 22, AA3100, H4350, IMR 4350, IMR 4064

    If you are reloading you can tailor the choice of bullet/velocity to the purpose at hand and factor in the potential circumstances like brown/grizzly encounters in making those choices (e.g. selecting premium bullets like Barnes TSX's, Nosler E-Tips and others in 150 gr for a sheep hunt that will still give adequate penetration for the potential grizzly encounter.)

    I don't have ballistics software immediately at hand but working from ballistics tables it appears that the difference made by a couple of hundred fps is minor. Assuming a bullet with a ballistic coefficient of .45 and a sight-in at 3" high at 100 yds (zeroed at @ 250 yds) a comparison of flight paths of bullets at velocities of 2800 and 3000 fps would be roughly something like the following:

    Muzzle 100 yds 200 yds 300 yds 400 yds
    2800fps -1.5" +3.0" +2.5" -4.2 -18.0
    3000fps -1.5 +3.0" +2.8 -4.0 -16.0


    Others on this forum with access to ballistics software and greater technical expertise than I have can give you more precise (and better information).

    I think your '06 can be loaded to be plenty effective for the purposes you've outlined.

    My experience in the field (with various rifles chambered in '06 and barrels from 18" to 22" and lots of other rifles/cartidges shooting faster and slower) and what little technical knowledge I've acquired by reading, reloading, shooting, hunting for 40 years tells me that your skill at actually putting the bullet where you intend it would probably have far more influence on hitting or missiing an animal than whether you had wrung every last foot per second out of your '06.

    There are many others on this forum that can help you out. Check the Reloading forums and you'll get lots of information.

  10. #10

    Default Cool, Thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    If your looking for a flat shooting 06 load, try the Federal Fusion, 150 grain for the 06. It comes out the barrel close to 3000 ft/sec and I use it on pronghorns up to 400 yards. It should work fine on anything smaller than an elk.

    BTW, I have shot 2 Sitka blacktails with that load and it works fine. Leaves a big exit wound so it would be easy to track (if it's needed). Much easier than handloads (which I used to do).

    My new 300 WSM is going to shoot Fusions if it "likes" them.
    I'll have to give 'em a try.

    You're right though, '06 can leave one heck of an exit hole... got a little too far foreward on a Mulie once, hit bone... the best parts of the far shoulder were barely stew meat.

  11. #11
    Member icb12's Avatar
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    Default

    125 gr bullets out of an 06 can be pushed at .270 speeds. 125s will kill pretty much anything with a well placed shot.
    A 150gr 06 round will darn near decapitate a blacktail with a neck shot, the exit hole is absolutely humongous.

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    Get real.

    It dont matter "What" you hit them with, it's always "Where" you hit them.
    Shoot a rifle your comfortable with.
    Can you hit with it? Thats all that matters.
    I have downed about all I could with a .243W with 100gr. Rems for years, untill I picked up a Sako M-39 Mosin Nagant, and 147gr Czeck LPS, and its been chugging along steady since.

    30-06 and 180grs.

    If you cant kill it with that, then you should hide.

  13. #13

    Default Bullets

    Quote Originally Posted by need2leave View Post
    Yeah... I just don't realy see a need to shoot a brown bear unless he's trying to eat me, I've got no need to hunt him... If he tries to eat me on a fishing trip that'd be the 45-70 (or .44 pistol)... but if he tries to eat me with the '06 in my hand on a hunting trip I'm fine with that too... any load... just would like to see a flat one.

    If you wish to shoot a 30-06 and want to acheive a higher velocity with controlled expansion try using a Barnes 130 grn TSX @3300 fps. It lets the 06' acheive higher velocity than the 270 w/140 grn jacketed bullets. It wouldn't be my first choice for going after a brown bear rug, but they would work for every thing else.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

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  14. #14
    Member fishnngrinn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strangerinastrangeland View Post
    Get real.

    It dont matter "What" you hit them with, it's always "Where" you hit them.
    Shoot a rifle your comfortable with.
    Can you hit with it? Thats all that matters.
    I have downed about all I could with a .243W with 100gr. Rems for years, untill I picked up a Sako M-39 Mosin Nagant, and 147gr Czeck LPS, and its been chugging along steady since.

    30-06 and 180grs.

    If you cant kill it with that, then you should hide.
    True enough, but I might add that the bullet construction is an important variable. Years ago in Montana I talked to government hunter who was assigned to shooting buffalo that wandered out of Yellowstone park. He said the big slow moving bullets were the best at penetrating the thick hide and heavy bones. First he named the 45-70 but added that the 3006 with 220 grain bullet was good. Not good was the 7mm magnum, made big nasty wound on entrance side, but insufficient penetration. Now the counter example. Berger 7mm bullets are used in 7mag by the extremely long range, one shot kill boys. This bullet does not expand at the tip, it implodes, grows fatter as it penetrates. They are dropping Elk at 700+ yards in their tracks with one shot. Pretty impressive shots and more impressive penetration, going through both shoulders, high, breaking the back bone on the way through.
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