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Thread: Lever Gun Aficionados

  1. #1

    Default Lever Gun Aficionados

    Surprised no one has mentioned this yet.

    http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=787

    My biggest concern is that going this route, you are essentially a slave to factory ammo.And a 24" barrel.

    Still, interesting.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7STW View Post
    Surprised no one has mentioned this yet.

    http://www.hornady.com/story.php?s=787

    My biggest concern is that going this route, you are essentially a slave to factory ammo.And a 24" barrel.

    Still, interesting.
    That makes me wonder if Hornady will re-release their 200 grain FN intended for the 33 Winchester. That has been my long-standing pick for reduced loads in the 338 Winchester, coincidentally at around 2500 fps. Dandy bullet, and it would really help the new round. My stock has dwindled, and I'd love to get more.

    I'm here to tell you that performance-wise, the round is great news for leverlovers.

  3. #3
    Member pinehavensredrocket's Avatar
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    Default

    wow! that looks great and the numbers are impressive. hornady has improved the lever action so that it is a weapon of choice again.

    this last year i used the .35 remington leverevolution on a cow elk. the range was 248 lazer measured yards (further than i like to shoot) and the bullet double lunged her and exited. this is amazing performance from a marlin guide gun (short run--only 500 made).

    the bullet was not recovered, but broke the near rib and made a 2"hole in the off side. the elk rolled at the shot, ran about 60yds and piled up.

    reading the hunting rags, it seems these bullets will be available in "09, but of course not the powder(?).

    i purchased some extra ammo....and if not used for plinking should take a lot of game before price is a consideration.

    happy trails.
    jh

  4. #4
    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Default

    Looks like just one more gun and cartridge designed to fill a hole than isn't there.

  5. #5

    Talking hole filling

    Quote Originally Posted by Amigo Will View Post
    Looks like just one more gun and cartridge designed to fill a hole than isn't there.
    It seems that the Win 71 .348 filled that hole 72 years ago with one of the finest lever actions ever made with 200, 220 and 250gr bullets with velocities right there with the Marlin. But the Marlin is "new," so I guess it must be better.
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pinehavensredrocket View Post
    wow! that looks great and the numbers are impressive. hornady has improved the lever action so that it is a weapon of choice again.

    this last year i used the .35 remington leverevolution on a cow elk. the range was 248 lazer measured yards (further than i like to shoot) and the bullet double lunged her and exited. this is amazing performance from a marlin guide gun (short run--only 500 made).

    the bullet was not recovered, but broke the near rib and made a 2"hole in the off side. the elk rolled at the shot, ran about 60yds and piled up.

    reading the hunting rags, it seems these bullets will be available in "09, but of course not the powder(?).



    i purchased some extra ammo....and if not used for plinking should take a lot of game before price is a consideration.

    happy trails.
    jh
    I have a 336D in 35rem and love it for mainly deer/black bear. Its nice to hear from people who actualy use it. Here in Michigan I am told frequently its not even good for deer you need a magnum for those shots from 20-100yards go figuar? In the east its ben a great deer/bear/moose round for those who do actualy use it.

    Between Hornady, Bufalo Bore, and hand loading 200gr Corelokts to 2200fps I see it as only getting better. I have a 358win and a 35whelen so I have never pushed its range. 250 yards thats saying something, guessing about 175yards equivalent for the non-pointed bullets.

    OH the new Marlin 338 should be a great brush or bush gun. Does it come in a 20 inch barreled model? if not another limited run should follow for hunters North, East, South ,or even timberhunter in the Western areas would like one.

  7. #7
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    Default Marlin

    Someday Marlin will get their act together neck the .45-70 case down to .416 , which we all could use here , can't see that the world needs another deer round .

  8. #8

    Default 338

    I like the idea of a heavy bore lever gun, I just don't believe I need one in 338 however. If I had wanted a 338 lever gun I'ld already own a BLR. This rifle may fill a niche somewhere, I figure it's sales will be limited.
    It might be a good foundation for future calibers though.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  9. #9
    Member walk-in's Avatar
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    Default

    I think if Winchester would bring back the Model 71, this new one would have a very short and quickly forgotten life span.

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    Default They did

    Well not actually Winchester but Browning brought back the 71 about 15 years ago it had the same problem as the original, to expensive to make.So it was out of most average hunters' price range and it was discontinued. As for the 338 it will probably last ten years then be dropped in favor of the old 35 Rem, been a great woods cartridge for 102 years and contrary to what some "EXPERTS" say still is.

  11. #11
    Member IceKing02's Avatar
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    Default And if you REALLY need a bigger stick...

    You can always go up to the Winchester 1895 in .405 Winchester. Good enough for Teddy on lions!

  12. #12
    Member pinehavensredrocket's Avatar
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    many calibers are designed (used) as an improvement of some ballistics miracle. the truth is...... most of the basic non-magnum calibers still kill as good as they ever did. most are improved, with modern bullets and better powder combinations. however.........

    how dull would it be if we all shot, hunted with, and loaded the same thing? p.o. ackley and lots of other "wildcatters" set the standard for improvement which lead to the .338, .358,.35 whelen, .243, .223 etc,etc.

    i think these "new" leverguns are interesting, and certainly welcome in the areas and distances where game is actually shot. using the marlin platform, we traditionalists can have our cake, and eat it too!

    happy trails.
    jh

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bear_slayer87 View Post
    Well not actually Winchester but Browning brought back the 71 about 15 years ago it had the same problem as the original, to expensive to make.So it was out of most average hunters' price range and it was discontinued. As for the 338 it will probably last ten years then be dropped in favor of the old 35 Rem, been a great woods cartridge for 102 years and contrary to what some "EXPERTS" say still is.
    I know all about the Brownings. I couldn't get past the "Made in Japan." They weren't real 71s. I don't buy the "to expensive to make" excuse any more, either. With modern CNC machining, they should be less expensive to produce then the originals were....much less labor involved.

  14. #14
    Member pinehavensredrocket's Avatar
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    walk-in you are talking about a market place delema. the .348 didn't sell because it is a marginal caliber. the newer (better ballistically) .358 has more punch and is cheaper to produce. the .358 didn't sell either, and is used only by a few hunters "in the know".

    cnc is a great process but is not adaptable to john brownings complicated but reliable 1886 type actions. the parts are hand fitted and must be, to function. miroku did an excellent job for winchester and browning, producing a new but authentic levergun. it is not a cheap import but a continuation of the model line.

    the downside of this gun/caliber is customer driven, and because demand is slow (new models are available 10yrs after production stopped) they are a money loser.

    the marlin design, on the other hand is reletively cheap, easy to produce, and very quality. hence the "new" calibers.

    happy trails.
    jh

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    Thumbs up hey Pines

    i dont know how much experience you have with the 71s but you were spot on about the labor intensive hand fitting,those things are like a Swiss watch,not to say they are a bad design by all means no just very complicated. the Marlin 336/95 is my favorite levergun by far because of sheer simplicity, about as complicated as a rock but like using a rock for a tool they always work.never go to the field without either my 1895 457 wild west or my 336 35rem.

  16. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bear_slayer87 View Post
    i dont know how much experience you have with the 71s but you were spot on about the labor intensive hand fitting,those things are like a Swiss watch,not to say they are a bad design by all means no just very complicated. the Marlin 336/95 is my favorite levergun by far because of sheer simplicity, about as complicated as a rock but like using a rock for a tool they always work.never go to the field without either my 1895 457 wild west or my 336 35rem.
    Pretty good summary. I've got an original 71 (in 450 Alaskan) and I started to pick up a Browning for building another wildcat concoction. It was nowhere near as smooth as the Winnie, so I took a pass and built a slightly smaller version of the wildcat on the 45-70 case in a Marlin. I feel like I got good service for a lot less money.

    I'll bet though, that if anyone brought out a 71 again in either 348 or a wildcat, it wouldn't sell well enough to justify a second run. Folks dream and yammer about quality and the good ole days, but darned few will shell buxx for it. Just not enough money or market floating around.

    If I build another wildcat, it will be based on the 45-70 case again, and another Marlin. The only thing that stopped me from doing a 416 last time was the lack of .416 FN bullets.

  17. #17
    Member walk-in's Avatar
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    It sounds as though I'm clearly in the minority here. I'd absolutely be willing to pay for a new 71 built here in the US without any modernization or "improvements" to the design. I haven't had my hands on a new Model 70 yet, but when I think of some of the stuff that carried the Winchester name over the last few years, it seems like every time they tried to cut costs, they produced an increasingly inferior product. Personally, I'm willing to save up my money and pay for quality. Maybe it wouldn't be profitable for them to start production on the 71 again (although I'm still not convinced that it couldn't be done w/CNC machining), but I think that at the very least there is a market there for a smaller manufacturer.
    As for the 348 being a marginal cartridge....everyone I know who has actually owned one has been very satisfied with it. There are still a lot of those guns up here....some in 348, some in 450. Either way, you'll very rarely see one for sale.

  18. #18

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by pinehavensredrocket View Post
    the .348 didn't sell because it is a marginal caliber. the newer (better ballistically) .358 has more punch
    I'm not sure if I'd say it's marginal, especially with handloads. I'm running with, if not exceeding the 358 with a more efficient bullet. By the 358 failing in a less expensive rifle, I feel it was a no gainer...just different, so the argument is out the window about the "more" power and less money theory. And then we go on with the 350 Rem mag replacing the 358. Like it turned out to be the end all. I think rifles fail more to people changing rather than the effectiveness, and as one stated, killing power doesn't diminish with age, unlike some of us.
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

  19. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by walk-in View Post
    It sounds as though I'm clearly in the minority here. I'd absolutely be willing to pay for a new 71 built here in the US without any modernization or "improvements" to the design. I haven't had my hands on a new Model 70 yet, but when I think of some of the stuff that carried the Winchester name over the last few years, it seems like every time they tried to cut costs, they produced an increasingly inferior product. Personally, I'm willing to save up my money and pay for quality. Maybe it wouldn't be profitable for them to start production on the 71 again (although I'm still not convinced that it couldn't be done w/CNC machining), but I think that at the very least there is a market there for a smaller manufacturer.
    As for the 348 being a marginal cartridge....everyone I know who has actually owned one has been very satisfied with it. There are still a lot of those guns up here....some in 348, some in 450. Either way, you'll very rarely see one for sale.
    Don't get me wrong- The Browning 71 is a fine rifle, but there's no comparison to my Winchester original. I wanted one to hack up for a wildcat, so I just wasn't willing to do that with an original, nor was I willing to go the extra freight for the Browning rather than scaling down a bit with the Marlin. I paid for the whole project including rifle, rebarrel, chamber reamer and custom dies for less than I would have paid for the Browning to start the project.

    I'm not sure if I'd say it's marginal, especially with handloads. I'm running with, if not exceeding the 358 with a more efficient bullet. By the 358 failing in a less expensive rifle, I feel it was a no gainer...just different, so the argument is out the window about the "more" power and less money theory. And then we go on with the 350 Rem mag replacing the 358. Like it turned out to be the end all. I think rifles fail more to people changing rather than the effectiveness, and as one stated, killing power doesn't diminish with age, unlike some of us.
    Agreed. I'm intimately familiar with the 348, 358, 35 Rem Mag and a couple of forms of the 35 Whelen, both for factory loads and handloads on paper and game. I've been shooting some of them since the 1960's. My ONLY regrets in using any of them was losing interest and letting them go so I could chase my tail with another "better" round. Ballistic hairs often get split lengthwise, but that doesn't make the older round suddenly less effective. And newer, more powerful isn't necessarily any better. Just different.

  20. #20

    Talking

    Quote Originally Posted by BrownBear View Post



    Agreed. I'm intimately familiar with the 348, 358, 35 Rem Mag and a couple of forms of the 35 Whelen, both for factory loads and handloads on paper and game. I've been shooting some of them since the 1960's. My ONLY regrets in using any of them was losing interest and letting them go so I could chase my tail with another "better" round. Ballistic hairs often get split lengthwise, but that doesn't make the older round suddenly less effective. And newer, more powerful isn't necessarily any better. Just different.
    Hi Brown: Seems like we agree on more than we disagree on. It seems in these gun debates that "mine is better than yours", a lot of folks don't seem to use ballistic charts when they "discover" a new round that's been around for years or a new one that duplicates an older round (300WSM vs 300 Win mag comes to mind as one) but somehow feel the newer is better when in fact, it's a little less. These older rounds have taken more game than these newer ones ever will, mainly because our hunting opportunities and game populations are a lot less. These older hunters have forgotten more about hunting and the skills involved than most of us will ever know. They had to...it was called a survival trip...not an ego trip.
    If you like getting kicked by a mule...then you'll "love" shooting my .458.

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