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Thread: Remington R-25 .308

  1. #1
    Member Eastwoods's Avatar
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    Default Remington R-25 .308

    FYI
    I have read on other forums that some have had difficulty firing military surplus 7.62 out of their R-25. Needing two hits on the harder berdan primers. One fellow said that Remington purposely had them built this way, and that he is selling his R-25 and waiting for a DPMS.

    I just got off the phone with DPMS (manufacture of the R-25, Bushmaster makes the R-15, .223). They said there is no difference in firing pins or bolt between the R-25 and the DPMS. In fact he said the upper, lower, and barrel as well are indentical. He also stated that they are happy to service the R-25 just as their own. DPMS and Remington do not recommend foreign military surplus ammo for their rifles.

  2. #2

    Default Maybe

    While the use of military surplus ammo isn't reccomended in the R-25 308 caliber rifle. Some 308 military surplus is for machine guns, which is hotter than SAMMI specs. I and my friends have used NATO surplus ammo in our rifles with good results. ALL military surplus ammo 308 isn't NATO approved and as such isn't headstamped either. A NATO 308 approved round will have a circle with a cross in it on the headstamp.
    http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...nato/index.asp

    Military ammo has a harder primer, but the inerta of the hammer should be enough force to give positive detonation.
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  3. #3
    Member North Polar's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by brav01 View Post
    While the use of military surplus ammo isn't reccomended in the R-25 308 caliber rifle. Some 308 military surplus is for machine guns, which is hotter than SAMMI specs. I and my friends have used NATO surplus ammo in our rifles with good results. ALL military surplus ammo 308 isn't NATO approved and as such isn't headstamped either. A NATO 308 approved round will have a circle with a cross in it on the headstamp.
    http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...nato/index.asp

    Military ammo has a harder primer, but the inerta of the hammer should be enough force to give positive detonation.
    +1 on the hotter rounds. I would check what your rifle is chambered for. Usually (with ar rifles) a 5.56 or 7.62 chambers can shoot civilian chambered rounds with no problems as the major difference is a pressure difference of several thousand psi.

    Now if you are to take that hotshot round (compared to lets say stock .223) your regular rifle might not be able to handle the overpressure. So, check what your rifle is chambered in.

    Btw, i thought the remington rifles were made by bushmaster?

  4. #4

    Default Almost

    Quote Originally Posted by North Polar View Post
    +1 on the hotter rounds. I would check what your rifle is chambered for. Usually (with ar rifles) a 5.56 or 7.62 chambers can shoot civilian chambered rounds with no problems as the major difference is a pressure difference of several thousand psi.

    Now if you are to take that hotshot round (compared to lets say stock .223) your regular rifle might not be able to handle the overpressure. So, check what your rifle is chambered in.

    Btw, i thought the remington rifles were made by bushmaster?
    That's almost the case Ceberus purchased ,Remington,Bushmaster, Marlin, H & R. So Remington has Bushmaster put it's name on rifles sold under Remingtons brand; Bushmaster still builds rifles as well.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  5. #5

    Default

    For clarification, you should not fire .308Win rounds in a 7.62x51Nato chamber, or 5.56x45Nato in a .223Rem chamber....UNLESS you have verified with the company that they built the firearm to handle the both SAAMI and NATO pressure specifications and won't void the warranty otherwise. I'd want that verification in an owner's manual or written letter.

    I happen to own rifles that are chambered for one or the other but can fire both according to the manufacturer. While many modern rifles may be able to handle the differences, I would just check up on it first as a precaution.

  6. #6

    Default Correct

    Quote Originally Posted by martialcanine.45 View Post
    For clarification, you should not fire .308Win rounds in a 7.62x51Nato chamber, or 5.56x45Nato in a .223Rem chamber....UNLESS you have verified with the company that they built the firearm to handle the both SAAMI and NATO pressure specifications and won't void the warranty otherwise. I'd want that verification in an owner's manual or written letter.

    I happen to own rifles that are chambered for one or the other but can fire both according to the manufacturer. While many modern rifles may be able to handle the differences, I would just check up on it first as a precaution.
    The 308 operates at 62,000 psi and the 7.62 NATO operates at 50,000 psi. The chambers are the same dimension but the higher pressure of the 308 aren't within pressure tolerence for NATO firearms.BUT, the 7.62 NATO will fire in a 308 chambered rifle, the pressure curve might be off enough that it will not cycle the action though.

    The 5.56 has just the opposite loading, in that the 5.56 NATO has a 10,000 psi higher chamber pressure than a 223. Firing 5.56 isn't recommended in 223 chambered rifles.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

  7. #7
    Member 2dawgs's Avatar
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    Default Need more knowlage.

    Martialcanine, can you expound on this? I was under the impression that .308 win and 7.62x51 were identical and could be used one for the other. I do know that one shouldn't fire 5.56 in a .223 chamber'd rifle. I just purchased a DPMS AR-10 and the barrel is stamped .308 cal. Will NATO mil surp 7.62x51 damage this rifle?
    Thanx for any additional info.

    edit: Bravo answered whilst I was typing, thanx for the info.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 2dawgs View Post
    Martialcanine, can you expound on this? I was under the impression that .308 win and 7.62x51 were identical and could be used one for the other. I do know that one shouldn't fire 5.56 in a .223 chamber'd rifle. I just purchased a DPMS AR-10 and the barrel is stamped .308 cal. Will NATO mil surp 7.62x51 damage this rifle?
    Thanx for any additional info.
    .308 and 7.62 are NOT identical. 7.62 uses thicker brass (reduced powder loadings) and the chamber dimensions ARE ever so slightly different, basically resulting in higher pressures being produced in .308 chambers.

    Whether or not you can fire one in the other depends on the firearm, the company warranty, and your decision! DPMS states that firing 7.62x51 in their .308s will result in reduced accuracy from increased wear to the throat of the rifling and may cause erratic cycling.

    http://dpmsinc.com/forum/posts.aspx?postID=2271 You will find an online posting from their website administrator stating that they won't warranty the use of 7.62x51Nato in their rifles chambered for .308Win. You are right to go by the barrel stamping for chamber spec and not the markings on the lower receiver.

    Here is also a statement received from DPMS in response to an inqury about the flipside of the coin:
    "The official word from the man in charge is:
    Ammo other than what your rifle was designed for, in effect anything other than what is stamped on the barrel, will void your warranty except in the case of 7.62x51 (308 can be used) and 5.56x45 (223 can be used)."

    So, basically, they build their 7.62's to handle the higher .308 pressures, but they don't want you firing lower pressure 7.62's in their .308's. Confused yet?

    Since your DPMS gun is chambered .308, fire only .308s for now. In the meantime, you can write them a letter or email requesting written and signed verification on this matter from a fully-named, titled company representative authorized to provide product and warranty clarification.

    Otherwise, what the heck, just stick with .308 ammo anyway.

  9. #9

    Default Huh !!

    Quote Originally Posted by martialcanine.45 View Post
    .308 and 7.62 are NOT identical. 7.62 uses thicker brass (reduced powder loadings) and the chamber dimensions ARE ever so slightly different, basically resulting in higher pressures being produced in .308 chambers.

    Whether or not you can fire one in the other depends on the firearm, the company warranty, and your decision! DPMS states that firing 7.62x51 in their .308s will result in reduced accuracy from increased wear to the throat of the rifling and may cause erratic cycling.

    http://dpmsinc.com/forum/posts.aspx?postID=2271 You will find an online posting from their website administrator stating that they won't warranty the use of 7.62x51Nato in their rifles chambered for .308Win. You are right to go by the barrel stamping for chamber spec and not the markings on the lower receiver.

    Here is also a statement received from DPMS in response to an inqury about the flipside of the coin:
    "The official word from the man in charge is:
    Ammo other than what your rifle was designed for, in effect anything other than what is stamped on the barrel, will void your warranty except in the case of 7.62x51 (308 can be used) and 5.56x45 (223 can be used)."

    So, basically, they build their 7.62's to handle the higher .308 pressures, but they don't want you firing lower pressure 7.62's in their .308's. Confused yet?

    Since your DPMS gun is chambered .308, fire only .308s for now. In the meantime, you can write them a letter or email requesting written and signed verification on this matter from a fully-named, titled company representative authorized to provide product and warranty clarification.

    Otherwise, what the heck, just stick with .308 ammo anyway.
    Plese list your references where the 7.62 NATO has a higher chamber pressure than the 308 Win. Or where shooting a 7.62 Nato in a 308 Win. increases chamber pressure.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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