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Thread: Canister Fuel

  1. #1

    Default Canister Fuel

    First, I have already searched the archives as best I can. Just wondering if there is any update on getting canister fuel to the bush. I just got a MSR Reactor this past fall and love it, and will be heading out for sheep next fall. I do have a MSR Whisperlight International as a back up.
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

  2. #2
    Member dieNqvrs's Avatar
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    You cannot fly with the fuel on commercal airlines. You have to buy it in a bush village. Don't think you can mail to the air carrier either. I had to go with white gas and a whisperlite last fall due to this problem.

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    Can't take it on a commercial airliner. If not flying a commercial airliner, and flying in a bush plane from where you drove to, etc, it is pilot dependent. Air service out of McCarthy last year let us take our canister fuel into the backcountry in WSE Preserve. They usually want to know about it, so they can pack it in the proper location on the plane. But if you are flying by Alaska Airlines/Pen Air, etc to a place, and then taking a bush plane from there, you should take your whisperlite and buy gas in town.

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    You can ship canister fuel via NAC. Just send it attention your air taxi in the bush. Also if you do ship it via NAC, ship the Snow Peak Giga Power brand. It has a DOT number printed on the canister that NAC will check. This simplfies the shipping process, but you will still have to pay a Hazmat fee.

  5. #5

    Default NAC

    Excuse my ignorance, but what is NAC? It will be going to Fort Yukon.
    "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

  6. #6

    Default Northern Air Cargo

    The HAz-MAt fee is 25-30$. They only take the snow peak with the DOT stamp of approval. You have to declare it & they do inspect packages. Fines are in the thousands of dollars for not doing so. Not cost effective unless you are all ready shipping a lot of gear out to the main bush hub.

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    NAC= Northern Air Cargo

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    Default fuel on planes

    Just to let everyone know - the FAA rule on flying with hazardous materials - canisters of propane, cans of coleman fuel (or whatever) applies to ALL aircraft. Thank God the airtaxis have the sense to disregard this assinine regulation. This is what both a FAA inspector and a FAA lawyer told me when I was reported for having strike anywhere matches in my checked luggage on a trip to Kodiak in 2005,
    I think the definition of "commercial air carrier" would apply to air taxis just as it applies to a 757.
    Check with your air taxi to see if the type fuel you want is available locally - he should know. Take both stoves with you to the village destination - if your preferred fuel is available leave the extra stove with the taxi. You might also ask the taxi if you can check any fuels left by other hunters, that had finished their trips and left their extra fuel at the taxi office.
    Gary

  9. #9
    Member algonquin's Avatar
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    How about shipping propane tanks, empty, ie the 11 lb size and then can you buy propane in the outer villages like Bettles or Kotz? just wondering also what would be considered empty, valve removed?

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    Member AKDoug's Avatar
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    This is the biggest reason I have stuck with my Whisperlight international stove. I can burn gasoline, white gas, even av-gas drained from an airplane's wing. White gas is everywhere in Alaska and so are those little propane bottles. That's why my two fuel choices are those.
    Bunny Boots and Bearcats: Utility Sled Mayhem

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    Default Fuel Bottles - Prepare to Donate One

    I use a multifuel MSR stove (Whisperlite International (?) - it has been years since I looked at the box). Anyhow, I had no issues flying out last year with a purged fuel bottle on Alaska Airlines. On the return trip, I ran the fuel bottle dry, aired it out, then, as a precaution, filled it with water (I know, probably not the best solution). The bottle did not make it through the Alaska Airlines inspection and I ended up donating it to a trash can at the check-in (this is the first time I had this problem). I think the TSA inspectors were particularly zealous there but, does anyone have ideas on how best to "field purge" a fuel bottle (coleman fuel)? In the future, I will probably just eat the hazmat fee and ship it with any cargo I have going out but other readers may be interested. At the very least it is a heads-up. Ultimately, the price of a $8 fuel bottle compared to the price of a fly-out ain't much - but, it is irritating.

    Dave

  12. #12
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    Default Hazmat issues

    Hazmat is an issue for both carriers and customers. It is generally a pain. Going into Ft. Yukon you have several choices in air carriers. I suggest you contact them to see what the specific rules are.
    There are several types of canister fuels that have the correct DOT markings. Jetboil is not one. Empty containers, either for LPG or liquid fuels are hazmat. Again, check with your carrier to see what the ruling is for purged and clean containers.
    Everts Air has both a 135 and 121 operation. A 135 operator flying cargo/mail is probably what you are looking for as you won't have 18,000lbs to ship in a DC-6. Their Cargo Department receives freight for both operations, so they are knowledgable and helpful about what you can do. On an all cargo flight, the sky is the limit (pun intended) as to what hazmat you can ship. I think John is the lead hazmat guy, but all of them know the score. Be advised that some carriers may charge you for completing your paperwork. It can be time consuming.
    If you are using Ft. Yukon as your departure point, you should be able to use that service as your consignee to ship your items early.
    Understand that there is a lot of pressure by TSA to do all paperwork and shipping correctly. Today is different than even just a few years ago. What used to be ok is simply not with carriers being watched at every turn.
    Good luck

  13. #13

    Default Airlines and a MSR stove

    So what you guys are saying is " That if I have a used MSR whisperlite stove and fuel bottles that hve been used once,, that no matter how well you air them out, clean them they sill cannot be brought on a commercial airplane as checked baggage?"

    I was planning a flying trip but thought I could bring along my stove on my flight to Kotz. I live in the lower 48. I can rent a stove from my charter service, maybe this is the way to go??

    WOuld like ffed bcak on this more if you guys can!


    What about shipping the stove and empty fuel bottels by USPS in advance in a box by itself???

    Thanks
    Steveo

  14. #14
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default shipping propane

    Quote Originally Posted by algonquin View Post
    How about shipping propane tanks, empty, ie the 11 lb size and then can you buy propane in the outer villages like Bettles or Kotz? just wondering also what would be considered empty, valve removed?
    Every season I ship propane for my hunters. These are full bottles, either the five gallon bottles, or the small disposables. The thing to remember is that they have to go on an all-cargo aircraft. You will have to pay a HAZMAT fee in addition to shipping charges.

    As to whether you can get new bottles filled in the Bush, call your air charter to verify. It is different in every village.

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
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    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Strikes-Anywhere Matches= NO NO!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary View Post
    ...I was reported for having strike anywhere matches in my checked luggage on a trip to Kodiak in 2005...
    Gary,

    Strikes-Anywhere matches can no longer be shipped by air. This includes both passenger and cargo aircraft. You probably know this now, but many folks do not. So cross these kinds of matches off the list permanently. We have to go with regular matches and lighters now.

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
    Mob: 1 (907) 229-4501
    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
    "I have climbed my mountain, but I must still live my life." - Tenzig Norgay

  16. #16
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default Shipping refillable stove fuel bottles

    Quote Originally Posted by DH View Post
    ...I ran the fuel bottle dry, aired it out, then, as a precaution, filled it with water (I know, probably not the best solution). The bottle did not make it through the Alaska Airlines inspection and I ended up donating it to a trash can at the check-in ...does anyone have ideas on how best to "field purge" a fuel bottle (coleman fuel)?
    Dave,

    Questions like this need definitive answers, not just anecdotal reports. With the inconsistent experiences we all have at airports, because of the subjective and varied experience level of the agents who work there, stories don't really mean much. In other words, just because somebody has not had problems with something does not mean you won't. Unfortunately it's not always easy to get to the bottom of these issues. I'll do my best here-

    The issue is the gas fumes, which are, as you know, explosive. If the bottle has ANY smell of gas in it, they are not supposed to let you ship it.

    I have worked around this issue with outboard fuel tanks by first emptying the container completely, then swilling a little diesel or even alcohol inside the container to cut the fuel fumes. I ship my containers as cargo; it's possible that you could do the same. I don't know whether they would accept a fuel bottle purged with alcohol or diesel in your luggage or not, but you could give it a try next time and report back.

    One of the problems is that the check-in agents are not always consistent in their understanding or application of the rules. Same holds true of TSA. Travelers are well advised to print both the TSA regulations and the airlines' Contract of Carriage, so such questions can be answered on the spot if need be.

    Having said that, it would be cheaper to replace the bottle than pay the HAZMAT fee (if indeed you are required to pay the fee at all).

    Hope it helps!

    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
    Mob: 1 (907) 229-4501
    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
    "I have climbed my mountain, but I must still live my life." - Tenzig Norgay

  17. #17

    Default

    Not suggesting anyone do this, but one could take their liquid fuel stove bottle, put a couple of hunting/climbing/hippie stickers on it, put a regular water bottle cap on it, and put a carabiner on the bottle cap. It would look just like the aluminum water bottles that are all the rage now that nalgene's are toxic poison death. You could even take it in your carry-on for added show.

  18. #18
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    Default carrier assistance

    I checked with the guys at Everts Cargo today. Forgot to ask them about the used containers, or what constitutes used. I did ask about other fuels. Like I thought, there are several manufacturers of the blended butane/propane/? fuels that have DOT markings.
    There is a hazmat fee for every shipment. Normally around $30. That includes paperwork, labels, handling, etc. You can ship your hazmat to a separate person to receive it. Everts does have an 800 number too. They said they will assist a customer with paperwork that is new to it so it will help keep everybody out of trouble.

  19. #19
    webmaster Michael Strahan's Avatar
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    Default What?

    Quote Originally Posted by asrjb25 View Post
    Not suggesting anyone do this, but one could take their liquid fuel stove bottle, put a couple of hunting/climbing/hippie stickers on it, put a regular water bottle cap on it, and put a carabiner on the bottle cap. It would look just like the aluminum water bottles that are all the rage now that nalgene's are toxic poison death. You could even take it in your carry-on for added show.
    If you're not suggesting it, why mention it at all?

    It's ideas like this that land people in jail. It's not a joke.



    -Mike
    LOST CREEK COMPANY: Specializing in Alaska hunt consultation and planning for do-it-yourself hunts, fully outfitted hunts, and guided hunts.
    CLICK HERE to send me a private message.
    Web Address: http://alaskaoutdoorssupersite.com/hunt-planner/
    Mob: 1 (907) 229-4501
    "Dream big, and dare to fail." -Norman Vaughan
    "I have climbed my mountain, but I must still live my life." - Tenzig Norgay

  20. #20
    Member danattherock's Avatar
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    They do take this stuff seriously at TSA. On my NW floats I have had firestarter (wetfire) and match tubes consfiscated. I take two MSR Whisperlite Internationals on all float trips. Incredible stoves and I have never had a failure. I take two to be on the safe side. I also have an extra pump and an expedition repair kit. Using stoves like this is the ticket for remote bush trips. Below is a great bit of info on using these stoves in arctic conditions. Lots of good info is listed for care, maintenance, and preheating.

    http://therucksack.tripod.com/rations.htm#msrstoves
    The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.

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