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Thread: Plaxico Burress, hurting our cause...

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    Member schmidty_dog's Avatar
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    Default Plaxico Burress, hurting our cause...

    Well any of you familiar with Pro football may know of Plaxico Burress, the wide receiver who caught the game winning touchdown pass in last years super bowl. He just turned himself in to NYPD for shooting himself accidentally in the leg.

    The media are blowing this up, not just about how stupid this guy is for shooting himself in the leg, but basically going off about anyone who carries a gun.

    How badly could or will this affect how people view concealed carry of firearms?

    Keep in mind, he had no concealed carry permit, or any other permit for that matter. Probably no training either. But they don't want to talk about that. Just that anyone who carries a gun is looking for trouble in the "Wild West".

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    Mark
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    New York City isn't what I would call a bastion of liberal concealed carry:

    ......In New York City, a concealed weapons permit is allowed by law, but typically takes a large degree of wealth, political influence, and/or celebrity status to obtain one.[38] Examples of current and past New York City permit holders are Senator Charles Schumer, Robert DeNiro, Don Imus, Howard Stern, Ronald Lauder, Edgar Bronfman Sr., Donald Trump, William F. Buckley Jr., Harvey Keitel, Joan Rivers, Arthur Sulzberger, and Bill Cosby........
    While Plaxico Burress might fit in with the "special folks" who NYC might allow concealed carry, I kinda' doubt it.

    Nonetheless, carrying it into a nightclub isn't wise, anyway.

    Heck, entering a nightclub armed or not isn't all that wise.............

    I just figure NYC is a different world, and I'll let those who live there do so without them worrying about me wandering about in their special space.

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    Personally, I could give a rats azz about anyone dumb enough to shoot themself in the leg.
    Evolution always weeds out the dumb ones.
    Tennessee

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    Supporting Member Amigo Will's Avatar
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    Kind of like the well trained fed that shot himself in the leg climbing the ladder durning the Waco raid with his glock.

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    3 body guards, still carries a gun in a nightclub, shottself self. priceless and an idiot
    Grandkids, Making big tough guys hearts melt at first sight

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    Member jkb's Avatar
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    A few guys with concealed carry permits could have made short work of the terrorists in India over the weekend.

    I think it should be mandatory for anyone going to Walmart to carry, makes for polite shoppers.
    Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming-----WOW-----what a ride!
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    Default Sports radio

    has been talking about it all day. At least Warren Sapp had something positive to say. He said Burress should know the state laws like he does. "I'm a gun lover and know the laws of each state I travel in."

    The media is making a big deal out of this, and I think they will continue to make a big deal out of every firearm related incident.

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    Sponsor ADfields's Avatar
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    Default We are in for some bad gun years.

    It's only gonna get worse now with our new president and extra D's on the hill!

  9. #9

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    "You can't fix stupid !" But in the future these kind of shootings will hamper honest gun owners. They won't however faze the criminals as they are ABOVE the law.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    Member stevelyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowwolfe View Post
    Personally, I could give a rats azz about anyone dumb enough to shoot themself in the leg.
    Evolution always weeds out the dumb ones.

    Evolution should weed out the dumb ones, but we tend to interfere with the process too much.

    A few guys with concealed carry permits could have made short work of the terrorists in India over the weekend.
    Very doubtful unless those CHLs were capable of fighting as a cohesive force. Those guys were a trained team using rifles. The best a CHL could hope for would be to cover their own retreat.

    We are in for some bad gun years.
    It's only gonna get worse now with our new president and extra D's on the hill!
    Agreed. We are about to enter a dark age for Liberty.


    At least Warren Sapp had something positive to say. He said Burress should know the state laws like he does. "I'm a gun lover and know the laws of each state I travel in."
    And he even dances with the stars.

    "You can't fix stupid !" But in the future these kind of shootings will hamper honest gun owners. They won't however faze the criminals as they are ABOVE the law.
    Don't allow yourself to get caught up in the crime arguement. It isn't about crime. Crime is only the subterfuge they use to justify usurping Liberty. They couldn't care less about it and they aren't interested in solving it.
    It's about power over and control of the people.
    Now what ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevelyn View Post
    A few guys with concealed carry permits could have made short work of the terrorists in India over the weekend.
    Very doubtful unless those CHLs were capable of fighting as a cohesive force. Those guys were a trained team using rifles. The best a CHL could hope for would be to cover their own retreat.....
    I agree. And taking hostages likely prevented authorities from appropriately escalating the fight to rockets, missiles, and artillery.

    But at least all the terrorists are now dead, and I haven't heard anybody all worked up over their rights.

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    Member jmg's Avatar
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    The original poster here asked how/if this would hurt gun owners' cause. There seems to be a lot of responses here about how stupid Burress was, how evolution should kill off people like this anyways, etc. Don't these same arguments hurt that cause as well? If the answer is simply that he's stupid and should be dead (or at least shot) because he is stupid, it seems that a good counterargument would be that society in general has a difficult time separating the stupid from the not-so-stupid, and since we are not always effective at making such separations, maybe people should not be allowed to have guns at all so people don't get hurt. I'm not saying that is the correct response to this situation. But if you are really looking to hang on to gun rights - and effectively argue against those that want to see them banned because people are routinely injured by them - then it seems to me the response should NOT be "well gee, he was stupid, and evolution is taking care of it." That, IMHO, hurts the argument to keep carrying guns as much, or more, than Plaxico shooting himself in the first place.

    My first thought when I heard what happened - that the gun slid down his pants and he went to reach for it - was that yes, this is going to only help the anti-gun lobby. Gun rights advocates routinely make the argument s that "guns don't kill people, people kill people," and "when was the last time a gun just went off by itself"? Plaxico's situation, IMO, is at least a plausible counter to both of those arguments. Obviously he caused it to go off by mishandling it when reaching into his pant leg for it, but in the end, it was obviously an accident. He can likely at least say with a straight face that he simply reached for it and it just went off. That does do some damage to the pro-gun movement I think.

    The good news, however, is that Plaxico was a bit of a troublemaker prior to this incident, so I think there will be very little credence given to the situation as compared to if it had happened to an NFL "golden boy" like Eli Manning, Brett Favre, or other players that have stellar reputations both on and off the field. So in the end, very little damage. But I do hope there are better arguments than "evolution at work," or I think we'll be turning in our guns sooner than we think.

    Just my $.02.
    Never count your days, but rather, make all of your days count.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmg View Post
    Just my $.02.
    Some very good points you make in your post.

    What is far more damaging than some famous guy shooting himself, IMHO, is the people like the guy down in the Keni hospital going on a rampage over a stupid job! That type of thing puts fear in the minds of people, even people that are OK with guns before a deal like that tend to blame the gun since the guy is dead. We have all heard things like "How did a guy like that get a gun anyway." The guy is dead and the fear he generated turns to "gun fear" and converters people to the anti-gun side. No mater that he could have done the same damage in a multitude of other ways, it's just easy to blame the gun.

    On the good side of things, this time around the INTERNET is a much more powerful tool. In the Clinton years it was still new and the traditional media had a strangle hold on information, but the web is now the great equalizer that the peacemaker was in the Old West.

    Andy

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    Burress should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. He should have known the law and thats what we should be focusing on there is plenty of gun legislation out there. It is to just to bad its not enforced. The charges carry a 3 year mandatory sentence if he is found guilty. I personally think if gun advocates lobbied to have the state push for the maximum sentence in this case it may help their cause rather than hurt it. Burris is a thug with an unregistered weapon in a state where it is against the law. We should hold him accountable.

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    Member zeda34's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADfields View Post
    Some very good points you make in your post.

    What is far more damaging than some famous guy shooting himself, IMHO, is the people like the guy down in the Keni hospital going on a rampage over a stupid job! That type of thing puts fear in the minds of people, even people that are OK with guns before a deal like that tend to blame the gun since the guy is dead. We have all heard things like "How did a guy like that get a gun anyway." The guy is dead and the fear he generated turns to "gun fear" and converters people to the anti-gun side. No mater that he could have done the same damage in a multitude of other ways, it's just easy to blame the gun.

    On the good side of things, this time around the INTERNET is a much more powerful tool. In the Clinton years it was still new and the traditional media had a strangle hold on information, but the web is now the great equalizer that the peacemaker was in the Old West.

    Andy
    Isnt it sad that we hear more about Burris shooting himself than we do about the tragedy in Kenai, I cant understand why we find it so interesting that another professional athelete has stepped on his johnson. The reason the Kenai shooting hasn't hit the national stage is because the guy lost his job and it just further re enforces the economic meltdown every one down below is so worried about and would overshadow the gun fear.

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    Default Could be, or is it that its way up in Alaska?

    Quote Originally Posted by zeda34 View Post
    Isnt it sad that we hear more about Burris shooting himself than we do about the tragedy in Kenai, I cant understand why we find it so interesting that another professional athelete has stepped on his johnson. The reason the Kenai shooting hasn't hit the national stage is because the guy lost his job and it just further re enforces the economic meltdown every one down below is so worried about and would overshadow the gun fear.
    That sure could be, they sure are spending a bunch of time talking about money troubles lately. The news tonight is all about the permanent fund taking a huge hit in the stock market. Chanel 2 did have a short interview with the husband of the lady that was shot and still is not out of the woods. Just a very sad deal down there.

    Andy

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    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmg View Post
    .......My first thought when I heard what happened - that the gun slid down his pants and he went to reach for it - was that yes, this is going to only help the anti-gun lobby. Gun rights advocates routinely make the argument s that "guns don't kill people, people kill people," and "when was the last time a gun just went off by itself"? Plaxico's situation, IMO, is at least a plausible counter to both of those arguments. Obviously he caused it to go off by mishandling it when reaching into his pant leg for it, but in the end, it was obviously an accident. He can likely at least say with a straight face that he simply reached for it and it just went off. That does do some damage to the pro-gun movement I think.......
    It's very true that accidents happen, and sometimes they even happen to careful people.

    Life can be that way sometimes, and in the case of firearms opponents, that basic (and, should be, obvious) fact helps their cause.

    Does anybody remember that video clip that was circulated widely via email showing a supposed DEA agent in a classroom talking to students, and he pulls out his gun and is waving it around talking about how safe it is unless an idiot does something stupid with it, and just as he finishes saying it, he shoots himself in the leg?

    Stupid stuff happens.

    And we still have the individual right to keep and bear arms...............

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    Member stevelyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    I agree. And taking hostages likely prevented authorities from appropriately escalating the fight to rockets, missiles, and artillery.

    But at least all the terrorists are now dead, and I haven't heard anybody all worked up over their rights.
    Rockets missiles and artillery wouldn't be an appropriate solution in an urban area and hotels where you have non-combatants and the makings for a lot of collateral casualties.

    However, it'd make for an intense active shooter/SWAT operation.
    Now what ?

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    Default greek

    being a ex new yorker. I can tell you their idiot mayor wants to throw the book at Plaxico burris, would even have him excuted. but the criminals in NY get their hands slapt. Shooting himself in the leg is pretty severe punishment.
    Last edited by greek; 12-06-2008 at 08:25. Reason: misspelling

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    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by stevelyn View Post
    Originally Posted by Mark
    I agree. And taking hostages likely prevented authorities from appropriately escalating the fight to rockets, missiles, and artillery.........
    Rockets missiles and artillery wouldn't be an appropriate solution in an urban area and hotels where you have non-combatants and the makings for a lot of collateral casualties........
    Depends on how serious you are:

    Fourth day (Saturday, May 2)

    On the fourth day, 4,000 Soldiers and Marines arrived from Fort Ord and Camp Pendleton to suppress the crowds and restore order. Order began to appear as the Army and Marines arrived with M1 Abrams tanks and Armored Personnel Carriers. With most of the violence under control, 30,000 people attended a peace rally. By the end of the day a sense of normality began to return. The United States Army is the largest, and by some standards oldest, established branch of the armed forces of the United States and is one of seven uniformed services. ...
    Showing up to a street fight with a knife / knife fight with a gun / gunfight with a rocket / rocket fight with an M-1 Abrams / tank battle with an Apache gunship / battlefield with a nuclear warhead / etc tends to make one the martial victor.

    While the Tofflers write convincingly of today's trend toward anti-lethal war, I remain totally unconvinced when dealing with martyr/killers.

    One should make them martyrs as quickly as possible (before 10 men can kill 171 people and wound 239 others), and overwhelming violence would likely succeed in that endeavor.

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