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Thread: Crimping 300wsm and recipes??

  1. #1
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    Default Crimping 300wsm and recipes??

    I'm fairly new to this addicting hobby and have loaded 300wsm's. The manuals (speer and hornady) both say that you should crimp all magnum loads and esp hunting loads. I ran into several guys at the gun shop that said thay have never crimped a rifle round and it is a wasted step. I tend to be a gospel guy and believe the books, but these guys said it really wouldn't matter and have never in the 50 years of reloading have they had a bullet back out?? Am i correct in saying that a bullet that has a cannelure needs to be crimped or are the old timers correct?? I am leery of these guys cause they also said the first thing they do to their dies is toss the directionscause they say their way is better for adjusting and setting.

    Also does anyone have some good recipes for the 300wsm the are willing to share??i'm using a tikka t3 lite.

    I've tried imr4831 with 180gr hornady soft points

    Any input or advice would be helpful. Thanks!

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    The best luck I have had with 300 wsm was following the directions in the Barnes reloading manual. Basically the same as the others, but when you get the bullet to the length that you want, pull the seating plug back out and with your bullet up in the seating die, loosen the lock nut and screw it down until you feel it hit the neck of the bullet. Lower the load and give the die 1/8th of a turn more. Raise your bullet back into the die and lower the seating plug until it touches the bullet and tighten its lug nut back down. This will create a natural crimp for loads like you are talking about.

    For loads, I use CCI 250 primers, 65 grains of Reloader 19, and 180gr Barnes TSX bullets. They group really well with my gun under this load.

    Hope this helps.

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    Default That's a purty good question

    Unless you have a cartridge that is gonna be used in a tubular magazine, or a heavy recoiler, like maybe a 338 on up, there is probably no need to crimp, and you probably shouldnít crimp if you donít have a bullet with the crimping groove on it anyway, and a lot of'em donít.

    The only bottle-neck rifle cartridge I crimp is my 30-30, and Iíve crimped my 338 rounds a time or two.

    That said, I donít think it hurts to crimp anything if done right. Iíve yet to find a factory load that isnít crimped.

    Crimping as a separate step is spose to be the way to go, according to many people, but Iím different. The directions work fine for me, and I like to do it in all one step, so I donít have to readjust my dies if I donít wanna.

    UNLESS, of course Iím using a die designed just for crimping, like the Lee Factory Crimp Die.

    I believe all handgun loads should be crimped. I load (and crimp) only cast bullets.

    I don't/havent' loaded everything in the world in all situations, but those are the guidelines that work for me.

    Good Crimping (decisions) to you.
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    I do not crimp any 300 mag rounds wether they are 300 WSM ,Win Mag or Ultra. I dont think I crimp for anything except 30-06 accelerators anymore.

    I have had trouble with the 300 Win Mag and crimping as it would cause the cases to bulge and not chamber. No matter how little I tried to crimp. So now I dont bother.

    I crimp all my handgun ammo in a seperate crimping step.

    I did crimp 45-70 and 458 win mag with Lee factory crimp dies and that is also what I use for the 30-06.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

  5. #5

    Default Barnes load

    In my 300 wsm, I have found that 69 grs of IMR 4350, Federal 215 primer, Win brass, and 168 gr Barnes TTSX will produce a 3 shot 1/4" group from my rifle

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    Won't crimping a rifle round raise pressure like it does/can in handgun rounds? Just curious.

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    Yes it can raise pressures. If you crimp you should do it while working up that particular load.
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    You never did say what bullets you plan to shoot. Its best to follow the directions in your specific bullets reloading manual as wether to crimp or not. Good luck!

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    Default Crimping....

    My Speer and Hornady books do not say that and all I have ever read about crimping and all I have ever experienced with crimping (bottle necked rifle rounds) has only been good if and when;

    1. There is a place on the bullet to crimp into. (Cannelure or crimp groove)

    2. All brass is of uniform length. (+/- .002")

    3. All brass is of uniform thickness. (+/- .0005")

    4. It is done in a seperate operation from seating.

    If you violate these rules, your problems may be much greater than a slight loss of accuracy.

    A uniform crimp may enhance accuracy but a not so uniform crimp (for whatever the reason) will certainly make it worse. The real down side of crimp is this; Cases change in the dimension (see 2 & 3 above) each time they are fired and on the fourth shot doing everything the same in loading you could easly have a dangerous situation just because of the crimp or at least a round that won't chamber or get jammed in the chamber because of a crimp applied to one case that became thicker at the neck or stretched during firing a little more than the rest and was wrinkled in the crimp.

    I crimp a lot of rounds. Heavy caliber, DG rounds. These crimps always follow the rules above and the brass is rarely recovered so reuse isn't an issue. Crimping requires you follow the above rules every time you use that case. More work and it generally isn't necessary unless you shoot 400 grain bullets or heavier. Crimping straight cases is different but follows the rules above. Generally the straight heavy calibers are all crimped. (458 Lott, 470 N.E. 45x2 7/8", 450/400, 405 WCF, etc) but here again I must have a crimp groove regardless the type of bullet. You will notice that bullets for these calibers usually have crimp grooves.

    Barnes TSX (rings), North Fork (they are back in business in Oregon), Woodleigh, Swift A-frames, Speer Grand Slam, TBBC, etc. All usually have crimp grooves and are for serious duty DG applications. Other companies also have crimp grooves in their bullets and should be use if a crimp is desired or needed. You do not have to crimp these cannelured bullets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post

    Barnes TSX (rings), North Fork (they are back in business in Oregon), Woodleigh, Swift A-frames, Speer Grand Slam, TBBC, etc. All usually have crimp grooves and are for serious duty DG applications.
    Barnes Reloader manual #4 recommends crimping as part of the bullet seating process for their rounds. Im not saying that your wrong, but it does not refer to DG rounds only. Their bullets range from the varmet gernade to infenity all using the same guidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronster View Post
    Barnes Reloader manual #4 recommends crimping as part of the bullet seating process for their rounds. Im not saying that your wrong, but it does not refer to DG rounds only. Their bullets range from the varmet gernade to infenity all using the same guidence.
    I don't doubt that many makers recommend crimping various rounds. This is usually for heavier recoiling calibers. And I'm not saying Barnes bullets would work better if crimped or uncrimped. There is still the requirement for a place to crimp, Barnes bullets have grooves (lots of them) and for the crimp to be consistant and promote accuracy the neck tension pull must be the same from shot to shot so the case length and neck thickness needs to be uniform.

    In general I agree with the large caliber, heavy bullets, high energy rounds needing a crimp. There is a 222 magnum and a 240 Weatherby Magnum and I don't think it is necessary to crimp them, even though they are magnums. And in general no 30 caliber rifle would be in this category. I will also say that Barnes reccomends certain techniques in loading their bullets that may well be necessary because of the bullet and the way it's made that wouldn't necessarily be good practice for bullets of more conventional design. As an example when the bullet is pushed into the case, the rings may get shaved off and the bullet is then quite easy to pull out of some low tension cases (this because of chamber and die dimensions). In this case a crimp may well make the batter better and produce a more consistant load. All my rules still apply, and will always apply when I crimp any case. Your description of the separate operation crimp in the #4 Manual serves well for the application if one doesn't have a crimp die.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snyd View Post
    Won't crimping a rifle round raise pressure like it does/can in handgun rounds? Just curious.
    Yes it does but the amount would be small. It would also raise pressures considerable if a bullet was pushed into the case by recoil banging the nose of the round in the magazine. We crimp ammo for magazine rifles to keep them from getting pushed into the case by recoil. This is the reason for the factory crimp and this becomes more critical for tube magazine rifles where all rounds are lined up and all the shots work on the rear cartridge with recoil and spring tension. Some bullets and some calibers are worse at this than others. In a double rifle the bullet to case must be a tight fit and they must be crimped or after firing the first barrel the bullet may jump out of the case similar to the way a revolver bullet does under recoil. We don't see bullet jump in 38 specials but do see it in 454 Casull quite frequently. Recoil is the culprit here.

    Just has been said if you are consistant with loading technique including crimp you can work up loads with a crimp just as without a crimp.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murphy View Post
    I don't doubt that many makers recommend crimping various rounds. This is usually for heavier recoiling calibers. And I'm not saying Barnes bullets would work better if crimped or uncrimped. There is still the requirement for a place to crimp, Barnes bullets have grooves (lots of them) and for the crimp to be consistant and promote accuracy the neck tension pull must be the same from shot to shot so the case length and neck thickness needs to be uniform.

    In general I agree with the large caliber, heavy bullets, high energy rounds needing a crimp. There is a 222 magnum and a 240 Weatherby Magnum and I don't think it is necessary to crimp them, even though they are magnums. And in general no 30 caliber rifle would be in this category. I will also say that Barnes reccomends certain techniques in loading their bullets that may well be necessary because of the bullet and the way it's made that wouldn't necessarily be good practice for bullets of more conventional design. As an example when the bullet is pushed into the case, the rings may get shaved off and the bullet is then quite easy to pull out of some low tension cases (this because of chamber and die dimensions). In this case a crimp may well make the batter better and produce a more consistant load. All my rules still apply, and will always apply when I crimp any case. Your description of the separate operation crimp in the #4 Manual serves well for the application if one doesn't have a crimp die.
    I'll buy that

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    Default Thanks for the info

    thanks for the info guys!! Experience is a good teacher. I am going to load some barnes tssx bullets in the 300 wsm. I'm going to follow barnes book specs and start there. thanks again for the advice/input/opinions/all the other stuff. Glad there is a local forum for stuff like this.

    rosscoak

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