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Thread: .270 newton

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    Default .270 newton

    I just found this website and joined a few days ago. I just aquired a remington model 721 that has been rebarreled with a .270 newton barrel that has the initals j.k.r. stamped on the barrel. Research shows that there was a gun shop in Seward Alaska that may have done the work. I would like to know if it is still in business. I believe the work was done prior to 1953. I also have the rcbs dies for this caliber. Anyone have any more information? Thank you.

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    Van J, The moderator of this forum (Murphy) is a walking gun encyclopdia - not sure where he is, maybe hunting? But he may be able to help you when he gets back if no one else can.

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    Maybe a slow walking, thin encyclopedia.

    The 270 Newton caliber is likely the most obscure of all the Newton calibers and also probably not one of Charles Newtons inventions. I have no actual evidence to confirm this but there are a few things that lead me to believe it came along much later than the original 30, 35, 40 and famous 256 (6.5-06) Newton calibers.

    I have heard only of two of these 270 Newtons and both were made on 1950's vintage rifles. Also I have seen only Speer brand ammo for this rifle, but have heard Western also made it. Speer bullets and consequently ammo came along in the late 1940's and the M721 came out in the late 1940's. Western ammo did make ammo into the 1960's. The original 30 Newton was designed back before WWI in the nineteen teens. So it doesn't make sense to me that the 270 Newton was made in 1915 to 1919 as were the rest of the Newtons. Maybe a product of Speer bullets/ammunition in the late forties. It is made on the 30 Newton case which is the 8x68 case with a .512" rim and .524" base and roughly 30-06 length. Similar to the 375 Ruger case today. I made a chamber cast of a 270 Newton chamber in a rifle made on the 721 action and these dimensions came from that cast.

    I do not know of a smith with J.K.R. initials and I don't think there is presently a smith in the Seward area by those initials.

    RCBS is also a post WWII company but of course makes many die sets for ancient calibers. Brass can be found for the 30 Newton and can be necked down or could be formed from the parent case, 8x68, and RWS makes brass for that one. Loading date would be half way between the 270 Winchester and the 270 Weatherby.

    An interesting rifle you have there, I'd load for it and shoot it and enjoy the piece.

    Edited to add: There is also a 276 Newton which uses .284 bullets and made from the slightly smaller case of the 10.75x68. I believe this was one of the original Newton calibers. Also I have in my notes that the 270 Newton rifle I examined had a groove diameter of .275" not the .277" of the 270 Winchester. So it is quite odd and if you want to shoot it you should have the barrel checked for proper bullet size. .277's could be used but must be loaded quite mild.
    Last edited by Murphy; 12-03-2008 at 07:30.
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    According to post-war editions of Phil Sharpe's Complete Guide to Handloading, Newton also developed a 338 which was never commercially produced.
    I've been interested in the Newton cartridges for some time. For awhile Graf and Sons was listing 35 Newton brass in their catalogs. I called them several times about it and was told that they didn't have it in stock, but intended to get it. Apparently, Jamison was supposed to make a run of it. I haven't talked to them about it in about a year now, but the last I heard, it still wasn't available.
    From everything I've been able to find out about them, the Newtons were well designed, but, at least in the case of the 35, chambered in rifles that were poorly designed and not well suited to handle them. I've never had my hands on an actual original Newton rifle, but reamers are available for rent on various websites, so I guess there must be a few Newton rifles out there. I've never heard much about the 270. I suspect it is somewhat rare, and you've got quite a find there. If it was mine, I'd definitely make sure it was in safe, usable condition and then have fun hunting and shooting with it. I'm sure nobody will ever try to bum a few rounds from you in camp.

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    Default .270 newton

    I would like to thank those who responded to my plea for help in finding more information on this rifle. I have since aquired four complete boxes of .270 newton ammo made by speer. I also got some casings that were fired out of this rifle. I will get the rifle checked out by a gunsmith. I probably won't shoot the rifle much as I am left-handed and the rifle has a custom stock with a high cheek rest which would make the rifle awkward to shoot left-handed. But it is an interesting rifle to have, and may make an interesting trade someday.

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    I am into Newtons too - I have several original Newtons, a Buffalo newton, a Springfield and an Enfield conversion.

    Can you post cartridge dimensions, such as true bullet diameter, base diam, case length, case neck length, etc.?

    I have seen a 6.5x30 Newton built on a 1944 Mauser as a target rifle, using Speer 30 Newton base brass, no changes other than necking down the case to 6.5. Pretty close!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Van J View Post
    I would like to thank those who responded to my plea for help in finding more information on this rifle. I have since aquired four complete boxes of .270 newton ammo made by speer. I also got some casings that were fired out of this rifle. I will get the rifle checked out by a gunsmith. I probably won't shoot the rifle much as I am left-handed and the rifle has a custom stock with a high cheek rest which would make the rifle awkward to shoot left-handed. But it is an interesting rifle to have, and may make an interesting trade someday.
    I am interested in this rifle and would like the chance ot load ammo for it, if you would consider that. You asked about the J.K.R. initials from around Seward. I wasn't thinking at all when I answered that but that would have to be none other than Johnson Kenai Rifles, the man who developed the 450 Alaskan on the 348 case. That would fit with the correct time frame and many other things. His son is a contributor to this forum from time to time. (alaskadaddy)

    There were other calibers made on the 30 Newton case (8x68) and often folks would just use the Newton name because it was on the Newton case. This one did achieve some notoriety as Speer did make ammo. I also would like the dimensions of the ammo you have if you could give that out. This would tell me a lot more about this rare caliber, I've never had the opportunity to examine a factory round for this one.

    Generally if Newton named the caliber it was bore diameter not groove diameter as is the custom of American calibers. (30 Newton = .300" bore, .308" groove. 256 Newton = .256" bore .264" groove, 276 Newton =.276" bore .284" groove.) Bullets of course would be matched to groove diameter.
    Is there nothing so sacred on this earth that you aren't willing to kill or die for?



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    Thumbs down 270 Newton

    Hello Van J. and Murphy,

    Being a "Newton Nut" and having been shooting them for just under 50 years I joined simply to explore the comments Van J. began further. In all the Newton literature I have seen over the years I have never seen any mention of a 270 Newton. Thus I would agree with an earlier posting that this was not something developed by Charles Newton. From what has been posted to date I strongly suspect that the 270 Newton case is something that was originally formed by necking down the 30 Newton case. Please recall that Newton was the first person, to the best of my knowledge at least, to increase case diameter to something greater than that of the 30-06 case. Not until Holland & Holland came out with the 300 H&H Magnum in the late 1920's was any serious use of such a large diameter case made by anyone but Newton. I also believe that the 270 was something that Winchester concocted to compete with the 256 Newton. Again to the best of my knowlwdge Newton offered cartridges in 22, 256, 280, 30, 33, 35 and 40 Newton caliber and 30-06 in addition. The 22 Newton used a 90 gr. bullet with an m.v. of 3100 fps, the 256 used a 123 gr. bullet at 3100 fps, the 30 used a 170 gr. bullet at 3000 fps and the 35 Newton used a 250 gr. bullet at 2975 fps. These figures being from my Newton catalog I suspect that any cartridge other than these and tose mentioned above would have been a wildcat based on a Newton cartridge. In the latest addition of his book on Newton arms Larry Wales states on page 180 that "The 270 Newton made by Speer and designed by N. S. Hollingshead was the only non-Newton cartridge to be stamped with the Newton name". I hope this sheds some light on what Van J. really has.

    30 Newton

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    Default Newton Brass

    Probably should have mentioned that if anyone is interested in 256 or
    35 Newton brass today, Quality Cartridge offers 256 Newton cases and Jamison offers 35 Newton cases at $44.99 and $34.49, respectively, for 20 pieces. This is from Midway's #31 catalog and I expect Huntington's carries them as well. Can't understand why neither seem to offer 30 Newton cases and could use more myself. I have plenty of 256 Newton cases formed from 30-06 brass as that's the least expensive way to acquire them. These old Newton cartridges are great and almost everyone is more effecient than anything that has come along since to compete with them. The only cartridge I've found as good is the 7 x 61 Sharpe & Hart. Have two Model 60 Schultz & Larsen's chambered for the 7 x 61 and a Model 68DL Schultz & Larsen for 358 Norma Mag. Dollars to donuts says that someone at Norma looked over the 30 and 35 Newton VERY carefully before introducing their 308 and 358 Norma Magnums. I have been told by a correspondent at Hornady that that firm also looked the Newton cartridges over Very carefuly when designing the "new" Ruger cartridges.
    Who says all these cartridges are "new"???? Most seem like the same old things with a new name and only a slightly varied case!

    30 Newton

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    Default .270 Gibbs

    Who knows about the .270 Gibbs? Can you just re-chamber the .270 Win by using a reamer and then fire forming the case? How accurate is the round when you shoot to do the fire forming? Lots of questions...thanks a lot....

    Silver Tip
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    Hey guys, I am resurrecting an old thread here that I found doing a web search. I have in my possession two guns that are a bit on the odd side.

    The first is one that my dad bought years ago at a gun how. He was told it was a 30 Newton and he bought it because he just happened to have an old set of dies at home. Turns out the gun is a 270...with .277 groove. It fits a 30 Newton necked down to 270.

    The second gun is a recent acquisition. I bought it because it was stamped P.O. Ackley on the barrel, just forward of the action where it would normally be caliber stamped. It is also stamped 7mm Newton down on the bottom of the barrel. We confirmed that it is a .284 groove and formed a case in it and got a 30 Newton necked to 7mm.

    Just though I would throw these into the mix to see if anyone had any comments, question or thoughts. The only sparse info I have points to Richard Speer being the originator of these cartridges.

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    Default Newton Cartridge Reloader Association

    Hello everyone. Visit www.NewtonArmsCompany.com for new brass, case forming, modern load data for .256, .30, .35, .40 Newton, pictures, notes, historical information and everything. There is even a phone number for your questions!!

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    That was some great reading! Scotty
    Semper Fi

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    Default You are welcome Scotty

    It took several years to collect the guns, find the many articles written over the years by various authors, collect published load data for .256, .30, .35, .40 Newton and develope our own. The photos are a real treasure. The links at the bottom of the site will take you to more great pictures and articles.
    Glad you enjoyed it.

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    Thank you very much for posting it. It is great stuff. Scotty
    Semper Fi

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