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Thread: Crazy law coming being shoved down our throats...

  1. #1
    Member marshall's Avatar
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    Default Crazy law coming being shoved down our throats...

    New law on the books in Arizona.

    I'm wondering how this will affect hand loaders. Are we to be considered manufacturers if we load for ourselves or our friends?

    Only time will tell...

    House Bill HB 2833
    1 Be it enacted by the Legislature of the State of Arizona:
    2 Section 1. Title 41, chapter 12, article 5, Arizona Revised Statutes,
    3 is amended by adding section 41-1772, to read:
    4 41-1772. Ammunition coding system database: sale of ammunition:
    5tax: fund: civil penalty: violation: classification:
    6definition
    7A. BEGINNING JANUARY 1, 2009, A MANUFACTURER SHALL CODE ALL HANDGUN
    8AND ASSAULT WEAPON AMMUNITION THAT IS MANUFACTURED OR SOLD IN THIS STATE.
    9THIS SECTION APPLIES TO ALL CALIBERS.
    10B. BEGINNING JANUARY 1, 2011, A PRIVATE CITIZEN OR A RETAIL VENDOR
    11SHALL DISPOSE OF ALL NONCODED AMMUNITION THAT IS OWNED OR HELD BY THE CITIZEN
    12OR VENDOR.
    13 C. THE DEPARTMENT SHALL ESTABLISH AND MAINTAIN AN AMMUNITION CODING
    14SYSTEM DATABASE CONTAINING A MANUFACTURER REGISTRY AND A VENDOR REGISTRY.
    15D. A MANUFACTURER SHALL:
    161. REGISTER WITH THE DEPARTMENT IN A MANNER PRESCRIBED BY THE
    17DEPARTMENT BY RULE.
    182. MAINTAIN RECORDS ON THE BUSINESS PREMISES FOR AT LEAST SEVEN YEARS
    19CONCERNING ALL SALES, LOANS AND TRANSFERS OF AMMUNITION TO, FROM OR WITHIN
    20THIS STATE.
    213. ENCODE AMMUNITION PROVIDED FOR RETAIL SALE FOR REGULATED FIREARMS
    22IN A MANNER THAT THE DIRECTOR ESTABLISHES SO THAT:
    23 (a) THE BASE OF THE BULLET AND THE INSIDE OF THE CARTRIDGE CASING OF
    24EACH ROUND IN A BOX OF AMMUNITION ARE CODED WITH THE SAME SERIAL NUMBER.
    25 (b) EACH SERIAL NUMBER IS ENGRAVED IN SUCH A MANNER THAT IT IS HIGHLY
    26 LIKELY TO PERMIT IDENTIFICATION AFTER AMMUNITION DISCHARGE AND BULLET IMPACT.
    27 (C) THE OUTSIDE OF EACH BOX OF AMMUNITION IS LABELED WITH THE NAME OF
    28THE MANUFACTURER AND THE SAME SERIAL NUMBER USED ON THE CARTRIDGE CASINGS AND
    29BASES OF BULLETS CONTAINED IN THE BOX.

    304. PAY THE TAX LEVIED BY SUBSECTION I OF THIS SECTION.
    31E. A MANUFACTURER SHALL NOT LABEL AMMUNITION CONTAINED IN ONE

    32AMMUNITION BOX WITH THE SAME SERIAL NUMBER AS THE AMMUNITION CONTAINED IN
    33ANOTHER AMMUNITION BOX THAT IS PRODUCED BY THE SAME MANUFACTURER.

    34F. A VENDOR SHALL:
    351. REGISTER WITH THE DEPARTMENT IN A MANNER PRESCRIBED BY THE
    36DEPARTMENT BY RULE.
    372. RECORD THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IN A FORMAT PRESCRIBED BY THE
    38DEPARTMENT:
    39(a) THE DATE OF THE TRANSACTION.
    40(b) THE NAME OF THE PURCHASER.
    41(C) THE PURCHASER'S DRIVER LICENSE NUMBER OR OTHER GOVERNMENT ISSUED
    42IDENTIFICATION CARD NUMBER.
    43(d) THE DATE OF BIRTH OF THE PURCHASER.
    44(e) THE UNIQUE IDENTIFIER OF ALL HANDGUN AMMUNITION OR BULLETS
    45TRANSFERRED.


    * 1(f) ALL OTHER INFORMATION PRESCRIBED BY THE DEPARTMENT.
    23. MAINTAIN RECORDS ON THE BUSINESS PREMISES FOR AT LEAST THREE YEARS
    3 AFTER THE DATE OF THE RECORDED PURCHASE.
    4G. THE DEPARTMENT SHALL ESTABLISH THE AMMUNITION CODING SYSTEM
    5DATABASE WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF ANY EXISTING FIREARMS DATABASES.
    6H. ACCESS TO INFORMATION IN THE AMMUNITION CODING SYSTEM DATABASE IS
    7RESERVED FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL. THE DEPARTMENT SHALL ONLY RELEASE
    8INFORMATION IN CONNECTION WITH A CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION.
    9I. A TAX OF ONE-HALF CENT IS LEVIED ON EACH BULLET OR ROUND OF
    10AMMUNITION THAT IS SOLD IN THIS STATE. THE DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE SHALL
    11COLLECT THE TAX AND DEPOSIT THE TAX, PURSUANT TO SECTIONS 35-146 AND 35-147,
    12IN THE CODED AMMUNITION FUND ESTABLISHED BY SUBSECTION J OF THIS SECTION.
    13 J. THE CODED AMMUNITION FUND IS ESTABLISHED CONSISTING OF MONIES
    14DEPOSITED PURSUANT TO SUBSECTION I OF THIS SECTION. THE DEPARTMENT SHALL
    15ADMINISTER THE FUND. SUBJECT TO LEGISLATIVE APPROPRIATION, MONIES IN THE
    16FUND SHALL BE USED FOR THE PURPOSE OF ESTABLISHING AND MAINTAINING THE
    17AMMUNITION CODING SYSTEM DATABASE PRESCRIBED BY THIS SECTION.
    18K. A MANUFACTURER THAT FAILS TO COMPLY WITH THIS SECTION IS SUBJECT TO
    19A CIVIL PENALTY OF NOT MORE THAN _ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR THE FIRST
    20VIOLATION, NOT MORE THAN FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR A SECOND VIOLATION AND NOT
    21MORE THAN TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS FOR ANY SUBSEQUENT VIOLATION.
    22L. A VENDOR WHO KNOWINGLY FAILS TO COMPLY WITH THIS SECTION OR WHO
    23KNOWINGLY FALSIFIES THE RECORDS REQUIRED TO BE KEPT BY THIS SECTION IS GUILTY
    24OF A CLASS 3 MISDEMEANOR.
    25M. A PERSON WHO KNOWINGLY DESTROYS, OBLITERATES OR OTHERWISE RENDERS
    26UNREADABLE THE CODING REQUIRED BY THIS SECTION IS GUILTY OF A CLASS 3
    27MISDEMEANOR.
    28N. FOR THE PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION, "CODE OR CODED" MEANS A UNIQUE
    29IDENTIFIER THAT HAS BEEN APPLIED BY ETCHING ONTO THE BASE OF A BULLET OR
    30AMMUNITION PROJECTILE.

    31Sec. 2. Requirements for enactment: two-thirds vote
    32Pursuant to article IX, section 22, Constitution of Arizona, this act

    33is effective only on the affirmative vote of at least two-thirds of the
    34members of each house of the legislature and is effective immediately on the
    35signature of the governor or, if the governor vetoes this act, on the
    36subsequent affirmative vote of at least three-fourths of the members of each
    37house of the legislature.






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  3. #3
    Member akhunter3's Avatar
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    I'd just like to point out that the bill has been floating around the Leg. for some time. So long in fact that I believe it is, or is about to be, dead. It is be no means new.

    That being said, it wouldn't hurt to write your Representatives and voice your opposition.


    Jon
    Nurse by night, Alaska adventurer by day!

  4. #4
    Mark
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    What is an "ammunition coding system database"?

    The bullet has a code on it?

    The sale of ammunition is recorded?

    What?

  5. #5
    Member marshall's Avatar
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    I posted something that I should have researched a bit more. It's dead in Arizona...

    I'll make sure that I don't vote for those idiots, no problem there either. I don't vote democrap.

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    Member nategr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    What is an "ammunition coding system database"?

    The bullet has a code on it?

    The sale of ammunition is recorded?

    What?

    Here is a little bit of info. Could make reloading a crime if they could push it.

    http://www.ammocoding.com/

  7. #7

    Default Problem is

    The existing laws already prohibit criminals from purchaseing or possessing a firearm. Most criminals steal firearms anyway; don't we think they'll steal the ammo too ? Do we suppose they'll just unload any firearm found and leave the bullets and take the gun?
    Might create a black market for ammo; HUH !
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    Member nategr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brav01 View Post
    Might create a black market for ammo; HUH !

    Be like Nicolas Cage in Lord of War

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    Of course the logic of serial numbering the head of every piece of brass will lead to the banning of all revolvers, pump, and bolt actions. Only guns that automatically eject the brass for the "CSI" folks to find will be legal to own.

    So I wonder how successful this serial numbering concept will be when the violent criminals commit their gun crimes with stolen guns and stolen ammo? Hey, just grab a wad of brass from your local gun range and toss it out at your next crime scene and let them try to make sense of that mess. Now who ya gonna arrest?
    Winter is Coming...

    Go GeocacheAlaska!

  10. #10

    Default Help

    In my attempt to help all LAW-ABIDDING outdoorsmen and sportsmen to comply with the above listed law, I will put a bin on my front porch for all non-compliant ammo to be disposed in. Thereby removing it from your possession and ridding you of such evil ammo. Cause we know the new ammo will be safer and not be used in ANY crimes.
    Please help me get this EVIL ammunition to comply.
    " Americans will never need the 2nd Amendment, until the government tries to take it away."

    On the road of life..... Pot holes keep things interesting !

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    Member marshall's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brav01 View Post
    In my attempt to help all LAW-ABIDDING outdoorsmen and sportsmen to comply with the above listed law, I will put a bin on my front porch for all non-compliant ammo to be disposed in. Thereby removing it from your possession and ridding you of such evil ammo. Cause we know the new ammo will be safer and not be used in ANY crimes.
    Please help me get this EVIL ammunition to comply.

    Perfect response to such a BS proposed law. If your down south I have a need for ammo as well.

  12. #12

    Default ammunition accountablity

    This nonsense is basically being pushed by the people that developed the technology to do this. Their web site is: http://www.ammunitionaccountability.org/default.asp

    The only reason they are pushing this nonsense is because they own the patents that would be needed by the manufacturers and the manufacturers would be having to pay them royalties. Even if only $.01 per round they would make how much per year?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JOAT View Post
    So I wonder how successful this serial numbering concept will be when the violent criminals commit their gun crimes with stolen guns and stolen ammo? Hey, just grab a wad of brass from your local gun range and toss it out at your next crime scene and let them try to make sense of that mess. Now who ya gonna arrest?
    Hmmm. Come on, nobody would ever do or think of that

    ohhh! You went there.

    Shhh..... we may have to turn in the expired brass for inventory.

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    Member Bear Buster's Avatar
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    "Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan

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    Can you imagine the added cost of the manufacture trying to keep 20 or 50 bullets together while being marked passed along to 20 or 50 cases loaded as a group and then stuck into one box properly marked. And then suppose there is a problem with one of the rounds, a damaged case or bullet or primer and now we have to replace that round with a properly marked round or destroy the whole box. Tell me that won't add to the cost of loaded ammo. Unfortunately the Constitution doesn.t mention ammunition. And I don't suppose you would get away with rebuilding ammo as apposed to manufacturing it as a reloader and boolit caster.

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    Member Bear Buster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbuck351 View Post
    Can you imagine the added cost of the manufacture trying to keep 20 or 50 bullets together while being marked passed along to 20 or 50 cases loaded as a group and then stuck into one box properly marked. And then suppose there is a problem with one of the rounds, a damaged case or bullet or primer and now we have to replace that round with a properly marked round or destroy the whole box. Tell me that won't add to the cost of loaded ammo. Unfortunately the Constitution doesn.t mention ammunition. And I don't suppose you would get away with rebuilding ammo as apposed to manufacturing it as a reloader and boolit caster.
    These laws are about incrementally taking steps to make shooting and gun ownership expensive and is a means of discouragement ..... nothing less.
    "Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan

  17. #17

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    A law which indirectly infringes on the exercise of an enumerated right or makes such exercise nearly impossible is just as unconstitutional as a law eliminating the right altogether. We've stood for enough lunacy already, placing citizen gunowners a peg or two or Class III - er, um.....- below law enforcement and a standing military.

    If the 2nd Amendment was recognized in the Bill of Rights in order to prevent tyrannical government, how could the people do so with registered firearms/ammunition and an arsenal legally restricted to weapons far inferior to that held by even many local police departments? Too much lunacy already.

    There is a path for politically reversing or ruling unconstitutional certain laws like this, but if that fails, I would not comply and could not recognize the authority of those who enacted the law.

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    Just a thought but how many of you are NRA members?? if not you should be! I dont agree with everything thay may say but guys we have to stick together and make our voice heard!!

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    Mark
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    Quote Originally Posted by kgpcr View Post
    Just a thought but how many of you are NRA members??....
    One here. Been a Life Member for 15 years.

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    Default Check your facts

    Quote Originally Posted by marshall View Post
    New law on the books in Arizona.

    I'm wondering how this will affect hand loaders. Are we to be considered manufacturers if we load for ourselves or our friends?


    Quote Originally Posted by kgpcr View Post
    Just a thought but how many of you are NRA members?? if not you should be! I dont agree with everything thay may say but guys we have to stick together and make our voice heard!!
    I don't wish to minimize the threat, but the original poster is wrong.

    The "law on the books" is not on the books. It is a House Bill. It has to pass both houses of the legislature and be signed by the governor before it goes on the books.

    That said, such laws are the goal of a lot of well-funded well-organized people (the various reasons why they want these laws is for another post). These things can come to pass if we do nothing. So, follow kgpcr's advice and get organized to multiply your effectiveness. If not in the NRA and/or NRA/ILA, other gun rights organizations as well as other fundamental rights supporting organizations (free speech, right to choice, right to marriage).

    Any encroachment on individual freedoms is an encroachment on all individual freedoms.

    Lost Sheep

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