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Thread: Another ignorant question

  1. #1

    Default Another ignorant question

    I don't know ANYTHING about hunting, and I mean that in an almost literal sense. So this is going to sound really, really freaking stupid. But where do you aim (like what part of the duck) when you shoot birds? And do they die right away?
    Thank God for people who don't fish!! Not much would get done without them =)

  2. #2
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    That isnt a stupid question its actually a really good question. It all really depends on how fast the bird is flying and at what distance....you want a head shot on the bird for a quick kill but sometimes you only get a wing and have to chase the bird down and finish them off. Duck hunting is a whole new hunting experience which I think is better than any other hunting out there....just my two cents...but good question....

  3. #3

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    No I don't want to hunt, to be honest (and I don't mean to offend here), I hate bird hunting with a passion. However, my boyfriend loves it. I just want to educate myself on what he does, I don't think it's fair for me to hate something I know nothing about. However, my opinion is still not changed, especially the "finishing them off" part. What can I say, I've always had a soft spot for birds (I did rehab work for awhile, even raised a few goslings myself).

    But I have always tried not to judge people for what they like to do, as long as they do not judge me. Around my boyfriend, I keep my opinions to myself and he does the same. It's weird but it works out. I just feel like I should be informed on it. So thank you.
    Thank God for people who don't fish!! Not much would get done without them =)

  4. #4
    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    Default hmmmm

    Your question is asked with a lot of negativity IMO..... To learn, Grasshopper, one must have an open mind.

    This should be interesting.

    Duck hunting is not so much about killing the birds as it is about getting out in the wild attempting to fool the birds, in addition to watching your dog do what they do best.

    If a hunter is of high ethical standards and takes shots that are within range the birds die much more quickly, sometimes before they hit the ground, than they do in the wild.

    Granted, there are always times when the bird does not die right away at the first shot, but it is still much easier than being eaten alive by a dog/coyote/fox.

    In my opinion, as a hunter, I feel that those who hunt are much more appreciative of wildlife than those who don't hunt. Hunters understand the animals that they hunt much more than the average non-hunting person.

  5. #5
    Member AK DUCKMAN's Avatar
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    Default I have to ask

    Do you eat any of the game that your boyfriend brings home. My wife and daughter have no interest in hunting,but have no problem with cooking and partaking in the meal. Duck, Moose, Bear, fish ect... They understand where the food comes from and what has to happen for it to get to the table. They do help with the processing. We cut, grind and wrap all our own meat. It helps one appreciate what you take into your body and the work it takes to get it there. No pointing any fingers here. But a lot of people just don't get it . I don't think they realize just where it comes from and what takes place to get it to the store. When you harvest your own and do all the work it just taste better. And thats my 2 cents for what it's worth.

  6. #6
    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    When was the first ignorant question asked if this was "another" one?

    I have always thought it is funny when people say that they hate one kind of killing, but gladly participate in another kind.

    You have killed many fish with apparently no qualms about it, posting photos of the various species that have fallen for your lures. That smile you wear appears to be a really happy one even though there is a dead animal in your hands. An animal that was once vibrant and its last memory was the pain of your hook. I can hear your gleefull yells of "FISH ON!" and then the solid thump of the club as the fish is killed. Then it will join its dead cousins on the stringer.

    Remember that nearly all fish are orphans, abandoned even before they were fully formed in the egg, and they all need our love and understanding.

    However a dead duck fills you with hate. I do not enjoy double standards too much.

  7. #7

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    Please stop taking me the wrong way... I'm seriously not judging any of you and I would appreciate if you did me the same courtesy. AKRay- I asked a question about a depth finder. No, I don't consider fish and ducks to be on the same level of intelligence. In my opinion, they do not feel pain and fear the same way. Is that unfair of me? Maybe, but at least I admit it.

    Yes, I do eat the meat he brings home. I most definitely prefer it to store bought meat and I will help him when I can. I don't have any silly fantasies about where my meat comes from. I know perfectly well that a slaughterhouse is a thousand times worse than hunting, trust me I do. However, the way I see it is this: I am educated on what happens in a slaughterhouse. I am NOT educated on what happens when people hunt. Which is why I am asking these questions.

    Bullelkklr - I don't see where I came off as negative? Sorry it was perceived that way, it wasn't my intention to do so. I am asking questions about something that bothers me, but I am trying to be open-minded as possible. I want to learn, where is the harm in that? I suppose I can see how a hunter might understand the wildlife better....it's just like learning about how and where a certain species of fish strikes, right? In that way you learn a lot about the animal. I understand it, does not mean I like it but.....



    Either way, like I said. I am just trying to learn.
    Thank God for people who don't fish!! Not much would get done without them =)

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    The best way to learn and understand duck hunting is to go do it! Get out on a hunt or two and experience what duck hunters are so crazy about.

  9. #9
    Member AK DUCKMAN's Avatar
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    Default This is not an attack

    But you really should rethink your theory that fish are less intelligent then ducks. Stick a hook in a fish and you can tell there's pain. Walk up to a stream when there are salmon in it. Do they not move off. I won't even touch the fact about them coming back to the same steam where they were hatched. There's a lot more going on between those fish eyes then you think.

  10. #10
    Member Birdstrike's Avatar
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    Hmmmm....sounds like somebody is trolling and many of you have bitten hook, line, and sinker.

    Seriously though.....I'd rather eat wild than growth hormone, antibiotic injected, store bought meat anytime. But, this requires me to do the dirty work instead of paying somebody else to do it and pretending I'm innocent.

    Just my .02

  11. #11
    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Oh, its the old evolution argument. Too stupid to come onto land with rest of us so they can be killed with little impact to my person. Being a biologist type I can understand that.

    There is a significant differance between judging someone and commenting. What you see here are primarily comments. We have not tossed you out yet.

    To me killing is killing no matter where on the evolutionary ladder the animal falls. I have the same respect for the fish as I do for the deer with their big brown eyes looking up at me as I approach. Killing is not easy or else everyone would be doing it.

    Crimsom, it is pretty clear that you want an education about duck hunting. There are two ways to go about this: review media on the subject, or get out into the swamp.

    You can sit here on the intertubes and gather some basic knowledge. There is not much to gain. There is some decent "how to" posts around, but most of it is "hey look at me" picture posts.

    You can read an old book or two and might enjoy some of that and gather an appreciation of literary skills absent from many of today's publications. Connet's "Duck Shooting Along the Eastern Shore" is a great old book if you can find it in a library. McQuarrie's series "Tales of the Old Duckhunters" is poo pooed by some but loved by many. Reiger has a good book about international hunting but I can't remember the name of it.

    You can rent a DVD titled something akin to "mallard mashers XXII" and get your fill of dead birds falling from the sky. 1 hour and 30 minutes of what makes up less than 5% of duck hunting.

    Within that media you will miss 90% of what makes duck hunting really cool. The only way to find that missing data is to go out there and see it first hand just like your slaughter house.

    The birds flying well before shooting time, wings ripping over your head in the dark. You hope they come back in 20 minutes.

    The dog totally out of control at home is now at "work" and is calm but about to burst with energy.

    Figuring out the decoy situation each time since nothing seems to work well twice in a row when in your "spot". Maybe it is the spot? There is a lot of figuring to be done during this game of setting the table for the birds arrival.

    The boat ride in the dark thinking is it two switchbacks or three before the I normally hit that sunken log. BAM! Well I guess it was one switchback.

    The boat I made myself following a classic hunting boat style from the 1880's. Anyone can buy a metal boat and camo it up. Where is the fun in that?

    Sitting in the boat or rear-end deap in the swamp talking to a good friend while sharing coffee as the sun comes up. Watching the hills change color and the clouds build over the mountains all while 90% of Anchorage is still in bed and the other 10% wishes they were back in bed - but someone has to fire up the latte stands.

    Watching birds fly by all day out of range and then one comes right in and you hit it clean and the dog fetches it up to your hand in a text book manner. And its a beautiful bird with the irridescent changes and the virmiculation on the feathers. And you know it will taste great later on in the week when roasted up. No, wait, this time it will be grilled with that pineapple orange sauce I found in the "import" section of the store.

    I recommend that you put away your memories of the slaughter house and make a trip out to the swamp with your BF or someone else. If you and the BF already do not talk about the bird killing you may not want to go with him in case you get upset at the situation and want to dump him.

    The one thing that non hunters typically don't get, especially those that have been to meat packing places, is that the hunted animal holds all the cards in our game. They have better eyesight, hearing, and speed compared to us humans. They are not waiting to be slaughtered out there. There is no shute to be prodded into. No old dude with an air operated "bolt gun" to kill them as they try to push back from that dark door at the top of the shute. There is no turkey funnel hanging on the side of the pen while some MILF yacks it up with TV people.

    It is just luck that allows my path to cross with the bird's and what little eye hand coordination I have to put the shot string on the bird.

  12. #12
    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Crimsom, if you want to figure out what this is all about, read The Corner on the DHC Alaska forum. Not much killing in the story, but the essence of duckhunting is in there.

  13. #13
    Member Bullelkklr's Avatar
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    Default just my take

    I just took it that way. No harm done.

    If you want to see how an ethical hunter feels without going on the hunt - Buy Primal Dreams by Gene Wensel and watch it.......it is a GREAT hunting video for non-hunters.

    Primal Dreams is an awesome video if even just for the spectacular photography and it gives priceless insight into a hunters mind....When I watched the video I could feel my pride swell with joy (ya, ya - sounds pretty funky).

    Google it, buy it, watch it - you won't be dissapointed. Gene and his brother put into words what true hunters feel.

  14. #14

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    Birdstrike - Not trolling. Learning. There's a difference, no need to make incorrect assumptions.

    Well I have to say....Thank you guys. I really really appreciate you posting information for me and not jumping down my throat. I want so bad to be okay with it. I want it to not bother me, I want to go out there and do it. It's just not working that way, though. I looked at almost every picture thread in this section.... trying to desensitize myself. Well it didn't really work. The pics really bothered me.

    And I have thought about it. Going out there with him. Not hunting myself, just....experiencing it. I would never ever dump him over something so silly. The only reason I am even trying to understand is because of him. I would just be too upset. Especially if it was not a clean shot...I would just be beside myself, I would feel horrible.

    I just thought of something (an epiphany if you will?). When I was about 13, I saw a Red Tail take down a female Mallard, and I was lucky enough to be about 20 feet away when they finally hit the ground. Being a stupid kid, I watched for about 15 minutes before I interfered....while the hawk tore feathers and muscle and sinew out of the duck while her drake flew around panicking. I ran over (curiosity overtook me) and the duck was still alive....bleeding with her back muscle laying over her back, suffering.

    So I suppose if there was a clean shot and the duck died instantly, I would deal with it. It's the suffering that scares me off the whole idea at this point.
    Thank God for people who don't fish!! Not much would get done without them =)

  15. #15

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    Umm okay so I decided to watch a few YouTube videos. And a lot of them showed the ducks/geese flopping and kicking and flapping around in the water. Suffering and dying. Why wouldn't you shoot it to end that?
    Thank God for people who don't fish!! Not much would get done without them =)

  16. #16
    Moderator AKmud's Avatar
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    When an animal dies, many times (even humans do this) the brain function has ceased, but the motor functions are still active for a short time. As soon as you kill an animal, it doesn't instantly stop moving. It is very typical to see an animal move randomly for several seconds after an obviously fatal shot.

    A good example.....when I was a kid, we raised chickens. My dad would behead them when it was time to butcher. He would chop their head off with an axe in one swift blow and the bird would instantly begin flapping its wings and running. Sometimes he would set the beheaded bird down and it would actually run for 20' or so before falling over. The muscles were operating without any brain input.

    The flopping and fluttering you see is mainly this type of motion, the bird isn't suffering, it just doesn't realize it is actually dead.

    Good question BTW.
    AKmud
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    The porcupine is a peacful animal yet God still thought it necessary to give him quills....

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    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Decades ago when I was a tyke in Nevada a women told me that helping to handle the birds (chukar) and clean them made things better for her because they went from bird to food in her thoughts. Her dogs were the best trained ones I had ever seen out there in the desert. She said that this was due to her desire to not waste a bird that couldn't be found.

    If the event with the hawk was an "epiphany" what was illuminated or revealed for you? The fact that things are typically eaten alive in the wild? You shouldn't equate that bird's suffering with the death of a human hunted animal. The majority of the time the birds are dead within seconds. The reality is that hunters are much more humain than most wild animals.

    One way to help the BF make clean kills is to make him go shoot some Five Stand or Sporting Clays at the range several times before the season opens. Much less likely to have a cripple if he is "in the groove" come opening day.

  18. #18
    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AkCrimson View Post
    Umm okay so I decided to watch a few YouTube videos. And a lot of them showed the ducks/geese flopping and kicking and flapping around in the water. Suffering and dying. Why wouldn't you shoot it to end that?
    To add to AK Mud.

    If they are sending a dog after the bird they don't want to accidently shoot the dog.

    Killing a bird on the water is really hard thing to do. Typically the vital part of the bird is below the surface and the physical properties of the water will prevent the shot from reaching the bird. So no matter how many times you "hit" the bird you are not actually hitting it and able to kill it. Plus if it is breast up you have just filled the edible portion of the bird with blood, feathers, and shot and you will be thowing that bird in the trash. I don't like throwing away birds, but once in a while you get one that two guys shot at and it is just a feather bag of bloody muck.

    Crimsom, I am sorry, but killing is a messy business. Not everything dies as easy as people do.

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by AK Ray View Post
    The reality is that hunters are much more humain than most wild animals.

    One way to help the BF make clean kills is to make him go shoot some Five Stand or Sporting Clays at the range several times before the season opens. Much less likely to have a cripple if he is "in the groove" come opening day.
    I was not relating the death of a wild killed bird to a human hunted one. My realization indeed was that being shot is probably a quicker death.

    I do go shooting with him. I help him sight in his guns and practice before he goes to Adak for caribou. I enjoy shooting quite a bit, actually, and he loves to take me. So that's indeed a good idea.
    Thank God for people who don't fish!! Not much would get done without them =)

  20. #20
    Member AK Ray's Avatar
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    Adak! Thats funny since that is where my Alaska Adventure started in 1982 when I moved up here. Let him know that caribou hunting out there now is much easier than when I was a kid. There were only about 800 animals back then. Now that the herd is over twice that size and have been pushed to the north end of the island it is so much easier. Some day I will take my daughter out there and I will show her all the places that we spent our teenage days doing all the stuff to entertain ourselves before cable TV and video games.

    Good luck with finding that balance you are looking for.

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