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Thread: goat orientatin course (draft)

  1. #1
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    Default goat orientatin course (draft)

    What is the problem you would like the Board to address?

    Determining the sex of Mountain goats is extremely hard and I would like to see it mandated that everyone that hunts Mountain goats in Alaska take a goat hunting orientation course.

    Utah requires such a course. Here is the link to this course.

    http://wildlife.utah.gov/hunting/goa...ntation_08.pdf


    What will happen if this problem is not solved?

    The first words mentioned under the Mt. Goat section of the winter drawing permit hunt supplement states:

    Hunters are encouraged to take male goats.

    If nothing is done, hunters will continue harvesting Nanny (female) sheep, when they believe they are shooting a Billy (male).

    What solution do you prefer? In other words, if the Board adopted you solution, what would the new regulation say?

    In order to hunt Mt. goat in the state of Alaska one must completed a Mt. Goat orientation class.

    Solutions to difficult problems benefit some people and hurt other:

    A. Who is likely to benefit if your solution is adopted?

    All goat hunters will benefit by learning the difference between male and female goats. A true trophy goat is a large Billy. Goat hunters will see more hunting opportunities if more male goats where being harvested.

    B. Who is likely to suffer if your solution is adopted?

    I donít think anyone would suffer if they where mandated to attend such a class, but ADF&G might not want the responsibly of teaching such a class.

    List any other solutions you considered and why you rejected them.

    None

  2. #2
    Forum Admin Brian M's Avatar
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    Just a suggestion - you need to consider funding when you address who is likely to suffer if this is adopted. It's not so much that F&G wouldn't want the responsibility, it's that teaching such classes costs money and F&G's budget is already stretched thin as it is.

    I like the intent behind this proposal, but I'm not sure if it would fly due to funding. I've heard through the grapevine that another goat proposal will seek to ban someone from goat hunting for five years if they take a nannie. That I could get behind.

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    Hunters are encouraged to take male goats.

    If nothing is done, hunters will continue harvesting Nanny (female) sheep, when they believe they are shooting a Billy (male).


    minor correction for GOAT props....
    "If you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you are looking for; even when it isn't there."

    meet on face book here

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    Default Thanks for the comments

    Just updated my copy with your suggestions.

    Thanks!!!!!!!


    Troy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian M View Post
    Just a suggestion - you need to consider funding when you address who is likely to suffer if this is adopted. It's not so much that F&G wouldn't want the responsibility, it's that teaching such classes costs money and F&G's budget is already stretched thin as it is.

    .
    Here is another take!

    How about Establish a goat orientation class but donít make it mandatory. Also establish a female goat harvest tag. This is a tag that must be purchased by any hunter that harvests a female goat. If you attended the goat orientation class this fee is $100, if you didnít the fee is $250. Each hunter has a monetary incentive in harvesting a male goat.

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    The goat hunt is one of the few hunts that I think are handled fine. Those old dry nannies actually may score pretty high for trophy hunters.
    "You have given out too much reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later".

  7. #7

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    I am solidly behind you on this proposal. Tweak it as you see fit and then present it. You could ask the bios to provide you with specific data they have collected and what their maximum take goals are. I do know, that they use the taking of nanny data to reduce the take the following year, in a very big way. Doesn't matter to them, whether it is a "dry nanny" or a yearling. Count is the same. I think you should roll in the orientation course and the increased fee together in the proposal, for a having taken a nanny. That way, those that take nannies, will help with next years funding to pay for the orientation costs. The proposed course doesn't have to cost too much. Billies are easily distinquished from the nannies and a simple viewing of a well produced video and good pictures for some to be forced to watch and look at will go a long way. I think more often than not, some goat hunters just get tired from the physical exertion and don't want to go home empty handed, so that take a nanny. It is not (NOT, again NOT) for the most part an identity problem. Hence the need for the fee to be levied when they return with a nanny.
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    I believe the course is a good idea and would be a great learning tool but the NO Nanny Law or a higher cost to harvest needs to be area specific. In some areas goats are threatening to become over-abundant and harvest of nannies would be beneficial. I have guided goat hunts and have harvested goats all except 1 were billies. So I am not advocating harvest of Nannies but in some cases it is beneficial. If I missed a specific area I apologize. Also you will see plenty of oposition from "subsistence users" on this proposal.

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    Moderator LuJon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RMiller View Post
    The goat hunt is one of the few hunts that I think are handled fine. Those old dry nannies actually may score pretty high for trophy hunters.
    Dry nannies Studies show that nannies age 7 and under have the lowest rate of reproductive success. Nannies age 8-12 are by far the most productive enjoying an 80+% success rate. Nannies 13+ have still produce 67% of the time. So much for that "old DRY nanny" idea.

    Read for yourself (scroll to page 122)

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by martenpine View Post
    I believe the course is a good idea and would be a great learning tool but the NO Nanny Law or a higher cost to harvest needs to be area specific. In some areas goats are threatening to become over-abundant and harvest of nannies would be beneficial. I have guided goat hunts and have harvested goats all except 1 were billies. So I am not advocating harvest of Nannies but in some cases it is beneficial. If I missed a specific area I apologize. Also you will see plenty of oposition from "subsistence users" on this proposal.
    I have not heard of goats destroying their own habitat in Alaska. Where is the location of over abundance you have referenced? More liberal seasons can take care of short term high production rates, we have seen this work with moose and caribou.
    Subsistence Regulations are dealt with in an entirely different manner and would not in any way be affected by what is being proposed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akres View Post
    I have not heard of goats destroying their own habitat in Alaska. Where is the location of over abundance you have referenced? More liberal seasons can take care of short term high production rates, we have seen this work with moose and caribou.
    Subsistence Regulations are dealt with in an entirely different manner and would not in any way be affected by what is being proposed.
    Firstly I did not reference that there is a population that is destroying their own habitat in Alaska, I stated that it can, I contribute that it hasn't happened to current Regulation permitting harvest of either sex. Yes more liberal seasons can take care of high production rates but if your a goat hunter you know that seasons that extend into late winter may limit access and opportunity for harvest; so for goat hunting this may not be applicable (I dont know). Also subsistence harvest is not only attributed to the subsistence regs. Lets use the Kenai moose season for example; this is not a subsistence hunt, there is no subsistence statis in some areas if you do not live rural but to many the harvest moose it is subsistence.

    I know that you'll probably pass up a bunch of deer on your way to harvesting a goat and it in a way is not really a subsistence hunt but some feel that it is. As a side note you may also want to consider that goat hunts for some are a lifetime opportunity and to some a Nanny is a trophy. (Remeber I am in no way encouraging nanny harvest just throwing out some of my own personal thoughts you should consider in the proposal. I am not challenging you)

    In regards to an area that the population of goats are threatening to be beyond management goals give the Kodiak biologist a call and ask why they are considering eliminating the draw and going to registration hunts this may answer some questions for you.

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