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Thread: Re-power....

  1. #1

    Default Re-power....

    Hi guys/gals, I need some help/info on numbers (efficiency) for a re-power my buddy is considering; here's some of the boat particulars.
    1. California Radon-type hull @ 25'; beam about 8'
    2. Boat currently weighs about 10,000 lbs. with single Cummins 210 diesel & Stern Powr outdrive.
    He's considering a single diesel re-power (300 hp range Yanmar) with a V-drive or straight shaft, however this will mean considerable demolition & fiberglass work. Going with a v-drive or straight shaft means moving the motor forward into the fishbox area (not acceptable) so if going that route, lengthening the boat by 4' would be required.
    In case you're wondering, the current Cummins is old and the hp is just not enough to push this boat past 18 knots and the Stern Power drives constantly break down (he's got 4 spare outdrives, all broken and a brand new drive costs 18k). We talked today about the re-power issue and he's considering getting twin 4 stroke OB's in the range of 200-250 hp each, but mount them on an Armstrong or D&D marine type bracket; this will mean WAY less fiberglass work (would have to patch transom shield hole) and will open up space inside the boat/deck. Fishing primarily here is trolling at 6-9 knots (Kauai); does anyone have some fuel numbers for a boat approximately this weight with twins? I know when you open these big OB's up, fuel disappears at an alarming rate, especially compared to a single diesel, but fast running here is not the norm (too rough). He's mainly concerned with all the pros/cons/costs of running twin OB's vs. a single diesel (not to mention the safety factor of having twin power with dedicated/independent fuel systems). This boat would be used to fish seriously (rough days/nights), also some fishing areas approx. 25-50 miles each way from home port. Any help & fuel numbers at various RPM's would be great; especially the range we're looking at (6-9 knots).
    Thanks a ton,
    Jim

  2. #2
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    Default Yanmar Motors

    I am not sure about the fuel being used in the twin outboards - but I can tell you that the single Yanmar has a proven history with many charter boats. The reason is the great fuel economy and the dependable motors.
    You need to consider to long term effects of putting two motors off the back and paying fuel costs (that will surely go up again). The long term savings might be there. Also the possible insurance savings and/or increase with gas versus diesel.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Maybe a volvo D6 diesel & outdrive(310hp) would a easier repower. I'm thinking the package might run around 40 grand. A good friend of mine put one in his bowpicker(we both gillnet) and it sure seems to be a good set up for now, he's run it 2 seasons with no problems. Check out Konrad outdrives they also have a package with a cummins diesel or they will design a package to whatever power you want. If your thinking about inboard i'd look at either a john deere or isuzu diesels, slower turning= longer engine life.

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  4. #4

    Default

    Actually, my buddy has been looking into some used Volvo powerplant/drive packages from Maui. There's a dealer there who puts them (D4's & D6's) in his charter boats and then sells them when they get about 1000 hrs. on them for new one's. You're right; swapping out the old outdrive/engine package for a new(er) one would be the simplest route, but then he's still looking at a single power plant; he's pretty concerned about that and probably won't put on big miles to the better fishing spots, plus help out there is not easy to come by. He did contemplate going with a newer I/O and maybe putting a kicker outboard on the back; what kind of kicker (hp) would you need to push this boat against 20 knot plus winds & 6-8 ft. breaking waves? Thinking the smaller Yamaha HT's wouldn't cut it??? Steve, he did look into the Konrad drive as well, but he's really wanting to get rid of the current Cummins as it doesn't have enough ponies so a complete Volvo package might be better.
    I did look on line at some fuel numbers posted by Yamaha on test boats and it seems those big 4 strokes burn about 6 gph at the trolling speeds common here (that's for only one motor too); doesn't look too good going that route (twin OB's).
    Also, 40K for a motor package is out of the question; 30k is about the max he'll go on this boat.
    Thanks for you guys' opinions,
    Jim
    Keep 'em coming!

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    My buddy didn't look at the Konrad, he had a 41 volvo in his rig(aluminum boat) and it was a fairly easy swap doing the D6, the hole in the transom is a bit wider and lower and the engine fit pretty close on the mounts he already had plus he's a great welder so he did the install by himself. His boat is a 30x11 bowpicker and with the new package i think he runs somewhere around 22-24 knots at 2800rpm?? its real close to that, i was on the boat and he ran it up to about 3200 and we were flying!! If and when my 41 pukes i'm thinking of doing the same package, would be a somewhat easy swap for me also. One of the only things i don't like about the D6's is the electronic controls and when you need to replace the u-joints its about a 800 buck part, volvo sure knows how to screw a guy for parts !!!

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    Default Volvo D-6

    They have stopped making the Volvo 310 it is now the 330. I have twin volvo D-6 and I am not sure that they would be the best option. I have seen several boats that they have had to replace the complete motor at 3000 hours. If something goes wrong with the block because of a bad injector you have to by another complete block at $8500. The ujoints are replaced as a complete unit 1500. Oil and filter changes ever 100 hours. The crank case vent filter is $94 dollars, two oil filters $22.50 each, and 1 fuel filter at $25.
    23 quarts of oil, and 2 1/2 quarter out drive oil. At 700 hours my shift actuator for the outdrive went out. $740 I also had to replace high pressure fuel pump at 900 hours $2400. I have a friend that is running an engine called FNM which is made in Italy. He really likes it and they can be hooked up to either Volvo or Mercruiser out drives. He is running Bravo ll and has not had any outdrive problems. Another friend is running Suzuki 225 outboards in a 30ft Harbor Craft and really likes them. He has 1500 hours on them and no break downs. He cruises at 30knots and get 1.6 miles per gallon. With the Suzuki's you get a 6 year warrenty. I was looking on Ebay and found a set of 225 Suzuki for $9500 each That is a lot cheaper that the 70k you would spent on the Volvo's.

  7. #7

    Default

    Steve, does your buddy have any fuel numbers? Also, do you know approx. weight of his boat? I heard the "H" Volvo drive is the heaviest duty drive they make. There's a 42' fiberglass commercial boat here that usually fishes the seamounts north of here (about 110 miles one way) and they have twin D-6's with outdrives; been running them hard for 2 years now and no problems; that says something about those drives, pushing a 42' heavy boat; and those guys are not babying those engines.
    Not to great to hear about all the other issues; what about their warranty??? They should be standing behind their product! I'm thinking my buddy is leaning towards the single Yanmar with v-drive; less maintenance plus he's looking forward to lengthening the boat 4' and being able to walk behind the motor box. Looks like he'll be in a toss-up comparing the Volvo I/O to the Yanmar IB.
    Jim

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    Default

    Jim,
    I'm thinking his boat & mine are aprox the same weight and mine is 9000lbs. I don't know anything about the drives but they do look a lot heavier than the old duoprops. One thing i can't understand is why somebody with a 42 foot boat would put outdrives in it?? it doesn't make any sense to me?? My friend had a outside shifter crap out on him but volvo replaced it no charge under warrenty. As for the filters i'd go with WIX filters and i bet they would be a lot less $$. Some of the things i don't like about the yanmars are all the hoses and tubes running all over the engine, high RPM's to get the horsepower and from what i've heard the filters are also real expensive. I know of some lobsterboats with the old isuzu's in them of running 10,000 hours, no problems, and still going strong, never heard of any of those others going that long.
    I'd also be careful with those v-drives never heard much good about them either and it seems to me with the v drive you get too steep a shaft angle and the boat runs with a giant roostertail, all the push goes down and does not push the boat well. I don't think he can do either set up for the 30 grand he's thinking of spending. Keep us posted on the project.

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by captaindd View Post
    They have stopped making the Volvo 310 it is now the 330. I have twin volvo D-6 and I am not sure that they would be the best option. I have seen several boats that they have had to replace the complete motor at 3000 hours. If something goes wrong with the block because of a bad injector you have to by another complete block at $8500. The ujoints are replaced as a complete unit 1500. Oil and filter changes ever 100 hours. The crank case vent filter is $94 dollars, two oil filters $22.50 each, and 1 fuel filter at $25.
    23 quarts of oil, and 2 1/2 quarter out drive oil. At 700 hours my shift actuator for the outdrive went out. $740 I also had to replace high pressure fuel pump at 900 hours $2400. I have a friend that is running an engine called FNM which is made in Italy. He really likes it and they can be hooked up to either Volvo or Mercruiser out drives. He is running Bravo ll and has not had any outdrive problems. Another friend is running Suzuki 225 outboards in a 30ft Harbor Craft and really likes them. He has 1500 hours on them and no break downs. He cruises at 30knots and get 1.6 miles per gallon. With the Suzuki's you get a 6 year warrenty. I was looking on Ebay and found a set of 225 Suzuki for $9500 each That is a lot cheaper that the 70k you would spent on the Volvo's.
    How about switching to WIX filters, i did it with my 41P years ago. I also have a Racor Crankvent installed on my engine so no more volvo junk to deal with. Wasn't your shifter covered under the warranty?? Outdrive oil i buy in 5gal pails at the Chevron dealer at the harbor in Anchorage it was about $100/pail last i bought it. Who's gonna work on that Italian engine here in AK or even ever heard of one??? I bet its a high RPM engine?? Does Suzuki warranty engines for 6 years under commercial use?? I'd bet they don't. If i ever get/build another boat its going to be a lobsterboat hull with a nice big slow turning diesel w/a a big transmission, big shaft and big prop They get those hulls running 20-24 knots(i can't think any faster than that) pretty easy now days and those hulls won't kick the snot out of ya on a bad day.

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  10. #10
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    Default FNM

    At this time there are no after market filters for the newer Volvo's. Warranty on commerical use is one year or 900 hours. I was past the 1 year mark by 30 days. There is a dealer in big Lake. Looking at the engines I would take to the diesel doctor in Fairbanks. Out drives would be a different problem.
    No matter which diesel engine you go with you will have to get someone else to work on it. These new engines are all computer controlled and use high pressure fuel systems to make them work. All of the charter boats that I have talked with say the Suzuki's are cover by the 6 year warranty.

  11. #11
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    Talking Re power

    I have a Bayliner 2859 that was powered with a 210HP Cummins, I was not impressed with the performance or fuel consumption. Three years ago I was north of Petersburg and had the Cummins lock up, bending a whole bunch of things. To make a long story short I had it fixed in Petersburg and then 10hrs later the same thing happened on my way to Katchikan. I got towed into Katchikan and left it there. Lighthouse Marine was unable to find why this had happened, the second time and we could not find the reason for the first time. I had them re power it with the Volvo D4 260 with the DPH out drive. They had to change the motor mounts, which was not that big of a job and the hole for the out drive was close, so that was not a big job. They done a very good job. The boat now will cruse at about 25 mph at 8.3 ghp (give or take, depending on wind and current). The boat loaded weighs around 10500. I'm very happy with the way the boat preforms now. The total cost for the re power was around 30,000, which is a lot but I plan on keeping the boat for a while. If I can answer any other questions, let me know and I will get a phone number to you. I live in the area of Anchor Point.

  12. #12

    Default Lots of info...

    Steve, I questioned the same thinking of putting OD's on a 42' boat??? They run them hard, long, & loaded and no problems whatsoever in 2 years.
    Well, around here, most of the commercial guys either go with straight shaft (not feasible in the style and shorter lengths of most boats here) or v-drives. All the guys who run the v-drives like them; one guy runs a 28 or so Radon with twin diesels and used to spend on average 10K a year repairing and/or replacing outdrives (volvo DP's); he's since switched to v-drives and loves them (he also fishes daily for a living so he's putting hours on his rig year 'round). Mike is not thrilled about all the electronic control crap on the new volvo's (even the throttle; no cable?). He's thinking about the Yanmar in the 315 hp range; keep in mind we don't have the capability here of running fast often so that Yanmar would not be working too hard most of the time; typical troll speed is about 6-8 knots. Also, Yanmars are getting to be more popular here. No John Deere's, Isuzu's. Some CAT's but primarily Volvo's. Gotta get something serviceable. Ideally, for this boat, twin D-4's would be great but the boat was made for a single motor.
    Keep the ideas coming guys!
    Jim

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