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Thread: Cocked and Locked?

  1. #1
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    Default Cocked and Locked?

    Since there are several threads on carrying, I thought I would throw this one in as well. If you carry a 1911 or similar, do you carry cocked and locked or without one in the tube and aware that you have to rack the slide to bring it into battery.

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    Member ken210's Avatar
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    I carry a Kimber eclipse ultra II with the 3 inch barrel. I always carry with one in the chamber. My thought is if I really needed i would forget to rack the slide and seat one in the chamber.

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    When carrying my 1911... cocked and locked, yes.

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    Yup...cocked and locked with my Kimber CDP-II.

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    Smile Colt Combat Commander

    One in the chamber, hammer down.

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    Anytime I am carrying my 1911, I have one in the chamber and cocked and locked.
    ..."Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions." - G.K. Chesterton

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    Cocked and locked is one in the chamber, hammer cocked and the thumb safety on=condition one. One in the chamber with the hammer down is a very dangerous condition for a single action semi auto?

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    I tend to agree with SB. For me, just talking me...I'm not at all comfortable easing the hammer down on a 1911 with a round in the chamber...some people may be very comfortable and proficient in doing so, but I'm not. When I'm done carrying cocked and locked I remove the magazine, then keeping my finger extended along the frame I disengage the thumb safety and rack the slide, ejecting the round in the chamber. It's an easy procedure for me to do very safely. To each his own...I'm not criticizing.

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    Default Safe?

    I know, at least with the older Colts, one in the tube with the hammer down leaves the firing pin right up against the primer. Not a good situation if you were to drop it or strike the hammer somehow. Not sure about these new generation 1911's though.

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    Cocked and locked anytime I carry a 1911 or BHP.
    Now what ?

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    I owned a Military 1911 45 ACP many years ago. I carried it with a round in the chamber, and the hammer down and back on the safety notch.

    When I wanted to shoot I just pulled the hammer back, like on a Single Action revolver.

    I know the safety notch could break and the gun could fire if I dropped it on the hammer, but I just couldn't get myself to think that cocked and locked was safe, although I've been told it is.

    If I had one today, I would not carry it "cocked and locked". The idea scares the poo-poo outta me.

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    Default Hammer all the way down, one in the chamber

    The safest way to carry a 1911 and many other loaded automatics is with the hammer all the way down on a live round. The firing pin is of the interia type and is too short to reach the round with the hammer down - it must be whacked hard by the hammer and given enough forward momentum to hit the primer.

    Theoretically the gun could fire if on half cock if it was dropped on the hammer and the half cock broke and the hammer hit the firing pin hard enough. Not really likely but why carry it on half cock anyway?

    I personally don't think it is any harder to cock the hammer than work the safety but I have big hands and long thumbs. It may be easier to work the safety for those with short stubby hands. I've also cocked mine about a zillion times so I don't even think about it any more - it is just second nature.

    If one is really worried about easing the hammer down on a loaded round you can always push the slide back slightly out of battery. If your finger slips off the hammer the hammer will hit the firing pin stop rather than the firing pin and the gun won't fire. I've never had the hammer slip on me and I've been shooting for well over 40 years now.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
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    Default In order of relative safety

    Quote Originally Posted by Smitty of the North View Post
    I owned a Military 1911 45 ACP many years ago. I carried it with a round in the chamber, and the hammer down and back on the safety notch.

    When I wanted to shoot I just pulled the hammer back, like on a Single Action revolver.

    I know the safety notch could break and the gun could fire if I dropped it on the hammer, but I just couldn't get myself to think that cocked and locked was safe, although I've been told it is.

    If I had one today, I would not carry it "cocked and locked". The idea scares the poo-poo outta me.

    Smitty of the North
    Safest is with an empty chamber, then with hammer back safety off for speed of presentation.

    Next safest is a toss-up between condition one - hammer back safety on chamber full or hammer fully down on a full chamber

    least safe is chamber full with the hammer on half-cock (at which point the saftey cannot be engaged.

    The inertial firing pin will not set off a round in the chamber even if you drop the gun directly on the hammer if the hammer has no travel (as it could if it fell from the half-cock notch). Dropping on the muzzle is another matter.

    Series '80 guns are completely safe, 100% guaranteed. Except for what happened near Rochester, NY as described in this thread:
    http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...0418#911100418
    documented in this article:
    http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/content/full/178/5/1092

    A truly unique set uf circumstances had to come together just right, but it CAN happen. You are carrying an explosive on your person. Just be as safe as you can. But do think it all the way through. Half-cock is not as safe as condition one or hammer down. And that opinion is share by me as well as the manufacturers.

    Lost Sheep

    remember, only believe half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for what you find on the internet.

  14. #14

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    Always cocked and locked.

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    Default Bang

    you guys are crazy, how long does it take to put one in the tube. Once apon a time I had my little 22 trapping revolver on the seat of my truck, stopped by a buddies and was shooting the bull and threw my plastic soda pop bottle in the truck and BANG, oops thought I was safer than that, never will have another in the tube after that. If youd like to read about another look up FISH STORIES here you might just get a chuckle! I'd post a ref link if I knew how
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    Default NOW you've got me curious

    Quote Originally Posted by ironartist View Post
    you guys are crazy, how long does it take to put one in the tube.
    Several times longer than it takes to flick off a safety, or even to pull back a hammer. At a time when fractional seconds are vital (literally, vital, meaning "life") Plus, cycling the slide with one hand is difficult (though doable), so in addition to the longer time to presentation, it will likely take two hands to make the gun ready, at a time when one hand might well be occupied holding a flashlight or fending off an attacker
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by ironartist View Post
    Once apon a time I had my little 22 trapping revolver on the seat of my truck, stopped by a buddies and was shooting the bull and threw my plastic soda pop bottle in the truck and BANG, oops thought I was safer than that, never will have another in the tube after that.
    Please, I need more details. What kind of revolver? Did it have a passive safety like all (a word I use advisedly) modern double action revolvers (and many modern single action revolvers, too) have?

    Was the hammer fully forward (where it belongs) or back at full or half-cock? Did the gun fall on the floor?

    DETAILS, man! Your story is useless without details.

    Some revolvers are not safe with a live round in the chamber under the hammer, but all revolvers rotate the chamber under the hammer out of the way and bring the next chamber (presumably with a live round in it) into firing position when the action is cycled (pulling back the hammer) to bring the revolver to ready. What condition was your revolver in? Please don't tell me you had the trigger tied back.

    Quote Originally Posted by ironartist View Post
    If youd like to read about another look up FISH STORIES here you might just get a chuckle! I'd post a ref link if I knew how
    Posting a link is EASY! Two ways I usually use: The harder way is to look at the link (web address, http:// and so forth) and re-type it right in the message. The easier way is to highlight the web address, copy it (ctrl-C), then go into your message and paste it (ctrl-V)

    I did a seach for "FISH STORIES" on Alaska Outdoors and came up with 'way too many to have any hope of finding your particular one. Can you narrow it down for us?

    Oh, please don't call me crazy. I'm not. But it makes me crazy

    Thanks

    Lost Sheep

    p.s. I am genuinely interested in learning the details of your accidental discharge. For my education.

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    As to the make what kind of single action knock off 25 years ago. Any way the pistol was holstered on the seat and like I said I tossed a half bottle of soda in and apperently wacked the hammer just right, BANG.
    After that I have an empty hole infront of the hammer, unless in bear country!
    and maybe the link to fish stories http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ad.php?t=36316
    Visions Steel/841-WELD(9353)
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    Default Empty chamber and small children

    When my children were small I kept my .45 above their reach with a full magazine and an empty chamber. I knew they were not strong enough to pull the slide back to chamber a round so the gun was safe enough to keep loaded. I wasn't carrying it so I probably had the extra time required to chamber a round.

    After they grew older and I taught them to shoot and about gun safety I went back to keeping a loaded revolver handy.
    Living the urban lifestyle so I can pay my way and for my family's needs, and support my country. And you?
    ".. ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country" JFK

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    Default Thanks for the link

    Quote Originally Posted by ironartist View Post
    As to the make what kind of single action knock off 25 years ago. Any way the pistol was holstered on the seat and like I said I tossed a half bottle of soda in and apperently wacked the hammer just right, BANG.
    After that I have an empty hole infront of the hammer, unless in bear country!
    If you carry the same style revolver, the empty chamber is a good idea, and no less as good an idea in bear country. The chamber in front of the hammer is always at risk for accidental discharge in a revolver without a passive safety; and, because it rotates out of the way when you cock the gun to fire, is not a factor unless you need more than 5 (or 4 in the case of a 5-shooter) shots.

    If you have a passive safety, then there is no need to leave any empties.

    Unless you are REALLY paranoid, then leave two empties. The one under the hammer and the one that WILL be under the hammer if branches or fishing line draws the hammer back by accident.

    Quote Originally Posted by ironartist View Post
    and maybe the link to fish stories http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/...ad.php?t=36316
    Thanks for the link. I just finished reading it. I don't recall reading anything in the newspapers about this incident (apparantly in May or June of 2006, anybody recall this?). Apparantly we have some budding poets and songwriters in our midst.

    It appears (because the original story is not in the thread, but simply alluded to by reference) that while a guy was bringing in a salmon, his line got fouled on the hammer of a single-action revolver which got drawn back far enough to, when it was released, drop on the primer and set off the round (whether it was the one under the hammer at first or the one that got rotated into firing position is indeterminate). Could have been prevented with a full-flap holster, or having a passive safety like Ruger New Models all have. But even that is not 100% since a fishing line could entangle the trigger, too.

    Cringe-worthy story.

    An acquaintance of mine (30 years ago, so don't ask where he is now) sported a 44 caliber groove down the back of his calf. He got that while cinching up a saddle and the stirrup fell off the saddle horn onto the hammer of his single-action revolver. Stirrups are heavy, and hard. (This sound like the same scenario that happened in your truck). I would not have thought a plastic bottle could impact hard enough to set a primer off, but now do not doubt it.

    Thanks for the education, ironartist.

    How about this one? I do not know first or second-hand but I heard about a .22 Rimfire being set off by a 9 volt battery. A guy had several 22 RF rounds in his pocket along with a battery. Contact across the terminals generated enough heat to cook off the priming compound. (I do know from personal experience that 12 volts can generate enough heat through a wristwatch band to give second degree burns in less than a half-second.)

    I have also heard (first-hand, but I was not witness) that you can throw a 22 RF onto a hard surface with enough force to set it off if the rim hits the surface just right.

    But my favorite is still the Colt 45ACP in the MRI machine I posted on this thread earlier.

    Lost Sheep.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lost Sheep View Post
    Safest is with an empty chamber, then with hammer back safety off for speed of presentation.

    Next safest is a toss-up between condition one - hammer back safety on chamber full or hammer fully down on a full chamber

    least safe is chamber full with the hammer on half-cock (at which point the saftey cannot be engaged.

    The inertial firing pin will not set off a round in the chamber even if you drop the gun directly on the hammer if the hammer has no travel (as it could if it fell from the half-cock notch). Dropping on the muzzle is another matter.

    Series '80 guns are completely safe, 100% guaranteed. Except for what happened near Rochester, NY as described in this thread:
    http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...0418#911100418
    documented in this article:
    http://www.ajronline.org/cgi/content/full/178/5/1092

    A truly unique set uf circumstances had to come together just right, but it CAN happen. You are carrying an explosive on your person. Just be as safe as you can. But do think it all the way through. Half-cock is not as safe as condition one or hammer down. And that opinion is share by me as well as the manufacturers.

    Lost Sheep

    remember, only believe half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for what you find on the internet.
    I do it like tvfinak, and I think it's safer than cocked and locked. Also, handier, and more practical.

    When I carried it, I was used to Single Action revolvers. I still am, and now that I have a cupla DA revolvers, if I go on automatic, I thumb the hammer back, and shoot SA, so it's also more natural.

    With me though, it's a moot point, because I'm not about to own another SA Automatic pistol anyway. They're obsolete. Especially, for a Defense, or CC gun.

    Smitty of the North
    Walk Slow, and Drink a Lotta Water.
    Has it ever occurred to you, that Nothing ever occurs to God? Adrien Rodgers.
    You can't out-give God.

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