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Thread: four legged hunting companion

  1. #1
    New member reuben_j_cogburn's Avatar
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    Question four legged hunting companion

    Here is a question I haven't seen posted.
    Since I am pretty much alone when I am in Alaska, I have decided that a Karelian Bear Dog is in my future to be an extra set of eyes and ears. My question is this:
    Is there a regulation saying I can or can't take my KBD with when I'm out hunting?
    Now granted I know I can use a dog to to hunt birds and small game, but I'm talking about having him around for protection while hunting large game. I have been reading throuh the regs but haven't found anything yet.
    My purpose would be to just have him there as a bear deterent since I will be alone at least half the time.
    I am looking for a few human hunting buddies but they gotta get along with my dogs!!!
    Anyhow. If anybody has any input please let me know.

    Thanks ya'll

    reuben.....

  2. #2
    Member fullkurl's Avatar
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    Default shouldnt be a problem

    Cog, I'm looking throught the regs and see nothing that would prohibit your dog along.
    Using him to chase bears/game is a no go, but thats not your intent...
    On the flip side, his canine odor might work against you afield...

  3. #3
    Member martentrapper's Avatar
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    Default

    What are you going to do when a bear chases your dog and the dog comes running back to YOU? Haha!
    I can't help being a lazy, dumb, weekend warrior.......I have a JOB!
    I have less friends now!!

  4. #4
    New member reuben_j_cogburn's Avatar
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    Smile bringin back trouble!

    (odor)....

    Yeah... that is something to consider but, Horses smell more pungent than dogs (at least in my opinion!!), and they are still used in the rockies quite a bit for hunting...

    As for the dog bringing me trouble. That I can believe if you are talking about my old couch potato dogs, but the karelian is a breed of dog that is bred especially for hunting bears in Finland and Russia. They are used alot in Yellowstone to harass bears and chase them out of areas traveled by people. They have been very successful there. Much more successful than bear relocation via chopper.
    They also have a great reputation as being a good all round hunting dog. I know of a few breeders in Alaska and plan on getting one as my outdoor companion. I'm very impressed with the breed so far...
    They are a bit intense as they are in the spitz family, and they need lots of activity, but then that shouldn't be a problem either!!!


    Maybe I should give fish and game a call just to be sure tho.....

    As a side note I also plan on getting a few horses. Anybody on this forum ever use them for packing?
    I imagine I'll have to get a few blaze orange blankets for them just in case there is a hunter out there with fogged up glasses who isn't sure of what he's shooting at!!!

    ciao ya'll

    reuben.....

  5. #5

    Default Dogs aren't bad if they are trained

    I recently took my pitbull sheep hunting. We went 55 miles total. Saw 31 sheep including 6 rams with 5 being legal. We got stormed underneath the rams who took off.

    She is good on rocks but ice cut her up terribly.
    She knows what bears are and isn't some dumb fool.

    We crossed three grizzles and 6 bull moose on the trip and she
    didn't spark after any of them. The grizzlies were at 400 yds but the moose were less than 50 yards.

    She has a lot of trail experience during the summers.

    One note though dogs seem to be able to climb extremely well up but terribly going down. She would have a hell of a time coming down and would bump into me. She always travels behind me but that is because we
    work a lot on it.


    On odor defecation and urination could be an issue.
    Dogs are good at going the same place their owners do.
    Uncover a rock and cover it up just like your own.

    Horses always seem to bring heartbreak when you get them way back in.
    Several big time horse based hunters have lost horses when bears spook them and bears seem to like bothering horses.

    They are awesome animals but you can get a lot of equipment for the expenses related to horse husbandry.

    These are just my thoughts.

  6. #6

    Default good idea

    I don't think there is any problem with it. You will probably hate it sometimes when it does something dumb, but then love it when it alerts you to a bear before you can hear it.

    Some dogs are good bear dogs, and some aren't. I would be willing to bet that is true even with those dogs, but you likely have a better chance of getting a good one with that breed.

    Bad bear dogs will go out after bears and then retreat with the bear following right back between your legs.

  7. #7
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    Default "Intense" is a good description for the breed...

    I'm not an expert with KBD's, but there are a few of them in my town and they bark a lot when they want to get at something (which is most of the time). I'm not sure that this breed can be adequately controlled without a leash and choke collar when in the field. Maybe that's not an issue for you in how you plan to use the dog. I'm guessing it will not only chase bears (unless leashed) but moose, caribou and whatever else it sees while you are hunting. It will most certainly bark at big game and be a good watch dog. Just my observations of the KBD's around here so take it for what it's worth.

  8. #8

    Default 4 legged friends

    I have a chocolate lab who is rock solid has a huge head and weighs 110 pounds. He is just pure muscle. He always goes hunting with me. I thought i would rig a pack up for him to carry. I did not have the nice dog back pack so i made one with saddle bags that go on the 4 wheeler and a strap. I figured if he is carrying it he can carry a treat for us so i stuck to 6 packs and some extra water. Needless to say we were a quarter of the way up the mountain when he sat down and refused to move i checked the pack strap and found out it had rubbed his nuts and they were raw, personaly i can not blame him for going on strike. We ended up drinking the beer and carrying the water. He does great in the woods maybe with the right pack he could do better! Chef

  9. #9
    Member aktomboy's Avatar
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    Thumbs up I hunt with my dog and horses

    Reuben ~ as people have said you can take your dogs hunting with you just no chase, taunting or harassing with them. As far as a KBD they are used in packs for hunting over seas. They do tend to chase and be over excited about game and talk alot as a breed also. Major training needs to be done as soon as you get your 7-8 week old pup. They like to test to be alpha. With the right training as you as the alpha you should be able to give him or her the "off" and "shh" sign and be all good while in the field. I also hunt with my horses here in alaska for 15 years. They are great here! They do cost alot more than down south to keep along with the gear. Hay this year is any place from $9.00 - $15.00 per bale. Plus it is harder to find one who is trained for packing. (I know of some great people who have trained ones for both ride and pack for sale most of the time, if you want there info) The hardest thing I would say is just being able to know the land and handle whatever happens to your horses while your out. Good luck!

  10. #10

    Default

    My brother had a Korelian Bear Dog. It was one of the worst dogs I have ever seen. It would bark, never obey, and would always run off. One day it ran off and never came back. Was a good day. This was my only experience with the bear dogs and hopefully this one wasn't typical. This dog had no training, but I don't know if it would have helped. He was stubborn and stupid.

    I've used horses a lot while hunting. They are great for getting people and equipment into the backcountry and packing out animals (I've used them only while hunting elk in Wyoming). Don't try to hunt off them though. They are noisy and stink. Wait until your horse whinny's or snorts with the moose/caribou 300 yards away. Plus saddles are fairly noisy. I did like using my horse to cover the first 3 to 5 miles uphill in the dark. Then I would tie them to a tree and hunt the basins or timber. I no longer have horses and hiking those first 3 to 5 miles uphill in the dark is tough. Still use horses to get the elk out, just use my friends horses.

  11. #11

    Default How about a pack goat?

    Pros:
    A good one carries about 50#, you don't have to pack feed for it cause they browse, they don't bark, they generally follow you everywhere, you don't need to keep it on a leash, they are generally pretty friendly, (but not as good a companion as a dog), they will follow you almost everywhere in the mountains, (but they don't like to cross large streams), they are cheap to keep.

    Cons: They will try to get into your tent, they don't like to be left behind by themselves, it's not a good idea to let it sleep in front of your hearth at home, they stink, (but not as bad as some dogs), if you are unsuccessful on your hunt, at least you still have goat meat.


    Actually I have used pack goats and they are pretty good.

  12. #12
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    Default KBD's

    Ruben, I am the very proud owner of a 3 year old female Karelian. She is a great companion to have around, and has paid for herself several times over. She has kept 4 different brownies out of my yard, 1 browny out of my kids tent ( also in my yard with the kids in it) and one off of the trail we were on. Now I am not saying they all will do this, as we seen at a KBD seminar last year, but a good breeder can pick these traits out at a young age. My wife has worked with ours and has her trained not to bark at or chase off moose after given a command, I still have not brought her moose hunting yet. I think she will do fine, but I messed up last winter and shot a squirrel she had tree'd, and now I am having a problem keeping her off of them, but shes coming around! I dont need a gun spruce hen hunting either, she catches them and brings them to me! ( OK it only happened once, but its a good story)
    Let me know if you want any more info on the breed and I will try to help you out. Scott

  13. #13

    Default We like ours

    If the picture makes it there is one of our KBD first job. The moose I shot was by a salmon stream laoded with bear. I was by myself and a little tense about the job ahead of me so I went home and brought the dog back to watch as I took care of the moose. They are good watchers. Eyes and ears don't miss much. He was a young dog at the time and about as nervous as me. Evreytime he would see or hear something he would sound of and I would grab the gun but we did get the job done. I had to retreve a bag of meat after packing a load out twice. So I know the bears were around. Don't know if the barking keep the bears away but it sure put me at ease.
    I have had him three years now and would feel safe with him letting me know if anything is trying to sneak up on me. They are hunters and high energy dogs so you have to be serious on there training, and what makes it worse the are smart and try working around you if given the chance. I won't take him out during moose season unless at heal or on a leash as there are some trigger happy people in the woods that time of year.

  14. #14
    Member aktomboy's Avatar
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    Thumbs up No worries

    I have hunting both on and packed with my horses. Moose and caribou are much more at ease with you on a horse than walking up or stalking them. Seeing another four-legged critter seems to be much better than the predator stalking method as far as I have seen over the years. As far as a smell of horses never seemed to bother any hunt I have been on if anything my one mare who never fails to be in heat during the moose hunt seems to attract young moose. Both moose and caribou are curious about my horses instead of spooked or scared of them. You also have to watch where you have your horses left while if you head out without them. Hobbles are the best bet and a highline after that or having a person stay at camp. I havenít had a problem but I have a friend who guides up here who did have a bear problem one year, since then he has used the portable hotwire fence to deter pests from his perimeter of his camp.
    One good tip for up here is those chem lights that you break and then glow if you tie them to your horses main or tail you can peek out of your tent and count the lights to check on your horses. I also have my horses colors different so I know blue is Thunder, red is Riddick and so on.

  15. #15

    Default Try for pic. again

    See if I can get the picture up this time
    Attached Images Attached Images

  16. #16
    New member reuben_j_cogburn's Avatar
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    Talking thanks guys

    For all the input.
    I know that there is no pain free solution to these things. Horses or ATV's they all have their own set of problems. I can't imagine the things I'd say if my ATV broke down 10 miles from noplace!!! Well.... maybe I can!
    But as my online moniker implies, I must be fond of horses! I have been working on how to keep them at the property and such. Fortunately I have friends near town who own and raise horses so I have a bit of backup there!
    And it will be a rather slow process getting things set up.
    And......... I can always switch gears and go with an ATV if the horses (or mules) are to much of a pain. And I have even given thought to alternate pack animal such as Llama's and burro's etc.... None of those idea's are off the table. This is all part of the research stage!
    As for horses spooking game all I know is what I watched in the movie "Jeremiah Johnson" when he hid behind his horse to shoot the elk!!!

    I sure would like to put my saddle back to regular use though! It would be easier if I could "fabricate" a ligitimate need!!! And I think I have!!!

    As for the KBD's I know they need a firm hand and lots of schooling. Everyone I've talked to pretty much says the same thing. And there are other issues with them that need to be addressed. No matter how good a breed is I an sure that there are a few duds out there! However I think that given a quality dog with good training, it would be the ticket. Even if taking him/her along on a big game hunt wasn't possible the dog would still be needed to guard the home front!
    I am going to call a breeder in Soldotna soon to schedule an interview....
    I'll keep you guys informed on how it goes

    Say Backtracker that is a nice looking dog you have there! The moose and the rifle ain't bad either!!! It gives me encouragement but I'm being realistic about the whole thing. It is going to be a process!! Horses, bear dogs, and I don't even have the cabin up!! Heck I'm not even in Alaska yet!!!

    So again guys I would like to say thanks for all the input, both positive and negative. It's good to hear both sides so I don't go in with blinders on....


    Ciao ya'll.........

    reuben_j_cogburn........

  17. #17
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    Default Hunting Buddy

    I have read the regs. alot and other than using a dog for bear hunting with a "special permit", there is no mention of the legal use of dogs. I have asked several people who have lived here and they all say there is no problem with keeping a dog with you, however they can't be aloud to harrass the wildlife.

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