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Thread: New powder out, Blackhorn 209

  1. #1

    Default New powder out, Blackhorn 209

    Has anyone had a chance to try blackhorn 209 powder? Suposed to leave next to nothing in the barrel and fast cleanup with good old hoppes. Accuracy is suposed to be excellent as well. Ignition with 209 primer. Cost per unit might be little higher, but use less per load? Lets hear about it good or bad.
    Just got a new Triumph, bore was tight, sent it away and TC is sending a new gun! How is that for customer satisfaction! Love the gun, way lighter then my hawken, even with a scope on it, and if the new one shoots as accurate as the one I sent in we are talking about a real happy camper! Desertdog

  2. #2

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    After trying 209 I went home and threw away 3 boxes of 777 pellets. Excellent accuracy, no swabbing at the range, no crud ring. I hope they make it forever so I don't have to go back. Be aware that the max charge is less than other substitutes - 120 grains I believe.

  3. #3

    Default Triumph

    What was your indication that your Triumph has a tight bore? Having a hell of a time loading?

    I just ordered one and it arrived on Friday. Went out in -15F and cooked off 3 rounds, was 3" high, dead center, at 50 yds with 100gr of Pyrodex pellets and a 295gr Powerbelt - ready to go right out of the box. Seating bullet went fine, but discovered that T/C's no 13 bore cleaner must be water based - first wet patch froze solid as soon as I bottomed out while cleaning between shots. Had to dump more down the barrel to loosen it up and get it jerked out - good thing I watched the video that came with it on how to deal with the stuck patch. Could have backed out the breech plug as well, but figured might as well try the trick and it worked. Have heard of some folks using Windex or rubbing alcohol in cold weather use, might give that a go as well.

    Mike

  4. #4
    Member barleydog's Avatar
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    mstumpe do you mind me asking what your load makeup was, (grains and bullet?) I'm curious about this new powder myself! Thanks

  5. #5

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    Cabelas has listed blackhorn 209 in thier new catalogue, several web sights have articles on it, was leary about the claims, but have talked to a couple users since posting and they love it, and performs as advertized. Biggest problem might be finding it! Guess it's selling out fast.
    Triumph...yep had to really use a two handed push to get a 50 cal sabot down the tube, cleaning the bore completely between shots.(superglide sabots, 250gr.) Second shot impossible (triple seven pyro pellets) due to crud ring without cleaning, could not seat bullet down to powder so hopeing to get the blackhorn powder. Heck if I'm going to sit there and clean my barrel so I can get in a second shot if needed. Even Shockeys gold is cleaner, so got some playin around to do.....desertdog

  6. #6

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    I was moose hunting so I was using max load of 120 grains. Bullet was a 300 grain barnes with a MMH sabot. The Barnes come with sabots but for my thompson I would have needed a hammer to load them so I tossed the supplied sabots and used MMH. Apparently bore diameter is not consistent between manufacturers. Thompsons are supposedly right at .500 and many bullet/sabot combinations are designed for slightly looser bores. MMH manufactures a sabot that is .002 or .003 smaller for the thompsons. I ordered straight from MMH online.

    Some good info at Modern Muzzleloader forum - Inline Muzzleloading sub-forum.
    http://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/ph...c15cf033266e50

    Also
    http://randywakeman.com/This site goes into bore diameters and sabots, but you have to dig a little.

  7. #7

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    DD - Last range session I fired 18 shots without swabbing and still loaded easy. Pulled breech plug at home and no crud ring at all. That alone sold me.

  8. #8
    Member barleydog's Avatar
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    Very nice, thanks for the input! 18 shots without swabbing is almost unbelieivable eh.

  9. #9

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    I picked some up this week. 120 gr 250 Barnes spitfire. TC Omega 50 cal.

    I needed to get this combo sighted in. It was as easy as any centerfire I've zeroed. First shot on paper. Adjust crosshairs the to hole at 25 yards. Dead on second shot. Moved to 50. Shot once, and adjusted for an inch lower. Next shot was dead on. This Buckhorn 209 seems to be very consistent. I did run a dry patch wrapped on a brush after the third shot. The barrel on this gun is very tight and it's a bear to get the yellow sabots supplied with the Barnes bullets down the barrel. But, being tight it is accurate.

    Clean up was the easiest I've ever had with a front loader. Rem Oil on a patch wrapped on a brush. Two of them and a couple of dry patches. Light fouling just wiped off the breech plug with a paper towel. I give this stuff a thumbs up.

    I was also sighting in a Lyman Gt. Plains 54 cal. (Faster twist barrel) I used Buffalo Bullets 425 gr. hollow base hollow point bullets and 100 gr of APP FFG. (The 209 canister say do not use with percussion caps.) Once I got the rear sight adjusted it shot as good as I could hold and see with a buckhorn sight and old eyes. It was definitely within an inch of whitetail. I've read that Buffalo Bullets is still in business but not currently manufacturing. At least Dixie Gunworks still has a supply of their bullets. If they go out of business I'll probably switch to the Hornady Gt Plains.

    The American Pioneer Powder is cleaner than 777 and I haven't experienced the variation I've read about. But where I live isn't as humid as Alaska. I've got an Encore that loves this stuff with the Barnes Spitfires.

  10. #10

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    I finally got a chance to hold a can of Black Horn 209 in my hand to read the details. The first detail that caught my eye was $31.99 for a 10 oz. can. Ouch! I'm very happy with the accuracy I get with 777 so being my cheap ol' self, I'll deal with the crud ring it leaves behind rather than pay the extra money for cleaner powder. I am glad to hear folks having good results with it. It's nice to see a new product on the market that lives up to its billing.

  11. #11

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    Anyone had an issue with diff types of 209 primers using BH? I saw on their website they recommend to use a "standard 209 primer", not a "muzzleloader 209 primer" as you may have issues with inconsistent ignition. It was my impression that the ML specific 209's ran hotter than your run of the mill shotgun primer, and as such delivered more consistent ignition - thoughts?

  12. #12

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    My impression and understanding was the opposite, that the muzzleloader designed 209 primers (like Remington Clean Bores) were not as hot as the standard shotgun 209 primer. It was my understanding that the muzzleloader designed 209 primers were "tamed down" to reduce the amount of fouling around the breech plug. Still plenty of juice to ignite pellets, just not as hot as the standard 209s. Perhaps I'm wrong though.

  13. #13
    Member Powerfisher's Avatar
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    I just broke into Muzzleloading recently, went out and got me a T/C Omega Z5 and was sold the 3/7 50 grain pellets by the salesperson. I thought I did my homework, and I did, the T/C Omega is a great BP for the price. I just didnt do the homework on the powder vs pellets and so on. I was prepaired for the swabbing after each shot but I sure did look like a fool on the range with my rod stuck in the barrel. Jag + patch + crud ring = Rod Jam. I have learned some tricks since then. (Windex on a patch over a .45 bore brush does a fine job, just in case you would like to know) After that, my second time at the range went WAY better. The swabbing wasnt too bad. Kinda got used to it. Gave the barrel a chance to cool down. So I went out to get some more bullets and (pellets) and was confused by powder vs pellets. I read that powder is the way to go. The shop was sold out of 3/7 ff and i really didnt want to get more pellets. It was either fff or BH209. I got the BH209. Here is my question. Since we use Hoppes #9 to clean the barrel now, what does that do to the {seasoning} of the barrel that I have read about?

  14. #14

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    Good stuff!......if you can get it! You guys are lucky, I live in B.C., haven't been able to find a dealer west of Sask. and real bp dosen't exist! Looks like it's going to be real pricey, as its selling for $43.00 a jar there, without hazzmat, shipping fees. Might just have to stick with good old pyro RS...not near as bad as the 777's pellets, no crud ring, and could load a second round without swabing if needed, plus easier to tune the gun with loose powder. I've been using it in my hawken for years, kinda miss the real powder, loved the smoke and smell. (wife was not impressed though if I cleaned it in the house!)
    If you have a problem with swabbing because of the cold freezing, use good old car windshield washer antifreeze, then swab with alcohol, and dry patch it. Light oil when finished, next time out just dry patch, fire a couple fowling primers, and dry swab again.
    Primers for blackhorn seem to favor magnum primers, however regular primers seem to work, depending on the rifle. Some say the breech plug gets plugged up, and can cause miss fires or hang fires..so you have to check that and keep the channel clean. I have not used blackhorn yet so this is from others findings.
    The whitehots powder (that came out soon after blackhorn) apparently is only available in pellet, and seems so far from reports I've read leaves a crud ring...also it seems it attracts moisture, like some other replacement powders. Blackhorn does not attract the moisture from reports, guys have loaded it and left it for the hunting season, still fired and cleaned up with most saying no barrel problems, not to mention some left theirs for weeks without cleaning after firing and no problems. Not saying thats a thing to do, but WOW! Maybe it's worth it?.........desertdog

  15. #15
    Member rimfirematt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerfisher View Post
    Here is my question. Since we use Hoppes #9 to clean the barrel now, what does that do to the {seasoning} of the barrel that I have read about?
    Hi there! Welcome to muzzleloading! Its a great sport. Okay first off dont use that hoppes #9. It doesnt work great on BP or its substitutues. WHile you are swabbing at the range plain old water or spit is just fine. Use up whatever commercial cleaner you got sold and then just switch to hot water with some Dawn thrown in there for your cleanings at home.

    Okay now that seasoning thing... Sounds like someone was watching the greg Ritz video that comes with the gun. I too worried about losing my seasoning. Guess what its just a myth designed to sell you more t/c bore butter.

    Ive been pretty heavy into muzzleloaders for a few years now. I shoot them alot. I'm down to the basics and everything is working out great.

    1. At the range use water or spit on your patch for swabbing between shots. I use spit on my .32, water on my big boar. Its simple I got enough spit for one, not enough for the other

    2. Dont even think about "seasoning" again. Get that barrel squeeky clean, then for storage run an oiled patch down the bore.

    My omega and encore were accurate as heck and didnt rust up none using the two steps above!

    Good luck!

  16. #16
    Member rimfirematt's Avatar
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    Oh yeah about that "crud ring". I bought some 209 primer dummys that would accept small rifle primers inside them. They claimed better accuracy and no crud ring.

    Its been awhile but I believe the claims were accurate. However eventually I went back to dealing with the ring cause preparing the primers was getting to be a pain after awhile.

  17. #17
    Member Powerfisher's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advice. bh209 sez not to use water or water based cleaners. They say it makes the bore sticky. I will try both and see what the gun likes better. Im not sold on th .25 breech plug yet though. I can see that if I was using pellets the 209 primer could have too much punch and seperate the bullet from the pellets but T7 & bh209 in powder form should ignite fast enough to keep that from happening. Especially the bh209 since its Non-Hydroscopic is should fire in a downpoor. Since I plan on shooting both, bh209 $32.99 10oz VS T7 @24.99 12oz, depends on availability, I would like some input about the .25acp use with powder. I am using the T/C Shockwave .50 250 gr. because, again, thats what was rocommended. With open sights @ 50 yds. Tac Driver. Opens up a bit at 100 yds. Most of the posts I have read dont even mention the T/C Shockwave. I have a peepsight on order and would like to know the best saboted projectile to use in my Omega. 28" barrel w/1-28 twist. Buckskinner swears by his Dead Centers. What do youall thnk?

  18. #18
    Member rimfirematt's Avatar
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    Well you got me on the BH209 powder. I have no experience with it.

    As far as projectiles I always had great luck with hornady xtp pistol bullets.

    They are cheaper and probably just as good as the specialty muzzleloader bullets.

    I got great accuracy though with the hornady stc aka T/C shockwaves.

  19. #19

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    I'm with Matt, I have great luck with the Hornady XTPs. I've shot Shock Waves and they are very accurate, but I'm just too cheap to spend that much money on them for as much as I shoot my muzzleloader at the range. Actually, my "cheapness" is probably why I shoot my flintlock much more frequently as I cast my own conicals for dirt cheap, plus it's just a hoot to shoot!

  20. #20
    Member Powerfisher's Avatar
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    Thanks for all the help and advice. This new obsession, er, I mean hobby has me hooked just like a fat Brown Trout on one of my own fly patterns. I will give the Hornady XTPs a try. I plan on spending a lot of time with my new friend. Thanks again. How come my picture doesnt show next to mt screen name?

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